[Archived] The Year Of The Experienced Managers

[LeChuck]

Just read this interesting article on the BBC website: Experience matters in management stakes. We are obviously mentioned but we're not the focus of the article.

The top end of the table certainly is heavily weighted with experienced managers this season. Certainly the ones that have done the best jobs (Hodgson, Redknapp, Pulis, Moyes, O'Neill, Allardyce...even Megson) are all very experienced, the only ones to seriously buck the trend are the duo of Zola and Clarke at West Ham.

On the opposite side, if you look at clubs that have struggled this year, they seem to have a common theme - a badly judged gamble on an inexperienced manager: Ince (us), Adams (Pompey), Southgate (Boro), Sunderland (Sbragia). Newcastle's desperate Shearer appointment has only yielded one win so far too. Compare that to the drastic effect Allardyce immediately had on our results.

I wonder if this will bring about a change in culture in the English game, one which in my opinion is long overdue. Too many managers are appointed because of their reputations as players (or sometimes coach/assistant), and it rarely works. I hope it does change the way clubs go about making appointments, it must be frustrating for the talented managers in the Championship who don't get a chance because of frauds like Ince and Adams. Or even experienced managers with proven track records (Hodgson, Allardyce) who spend years away from the top flight.

[thenodrog]

I wonder if this will bring about a change in culture in the English game, one which in my opinion is long overdue. Too many managers are appointed because of their reputations as players (or sometimes coach/assistant), and it rarely works. I hope it does change the way clubs go about making appointments, it must be frustrating for the talented managers in the Championship who don't get a chance because of frauds like Ince and Adams. Or even experienced managers with proven track records (Hodgson, Allardyce) who spend years away from the top flight.

Good point. I'd rather have had Stan Ternent than Paul Ince............. but only just.

[mhead]

And I would rather have Lanky United than Stanley Ternent.

[Guest Vinjay606]

At least Ince had done well in the lower divisions. Adams was a miserable failure in his previous lower league role. At least BRFC have that as somewhat of an excuse Portsmouth had no defense at all.

Ince will probably find it a lot easier to get offers than Adams ever will.

I would rather support BRFC in league 1 than watch a Lancashire Utd side.

[Majiball]

You can be qualified to manage in the premiership far too quickly here, Ince would have taken 3 years to gain his badges with us, Italy I think is 7 years, Spain 5 years minimum.

Clubs are as you've said too eager to appoint the next new thing, oppurtunities are offered far too early to people in their coaching careers. The FA should make the courses longer so they are forced to serve an apprenticeship, with no more exceptions. Ince was meant to be the last and then they snuck in Zola.

West Ham got the model right, Zola is very inexperienced and under qualified, this is his first managers job, he started coaching full time in 2006. Steve Clarke is the reason west ham have done so well, he's one of the best coaches in the country. Inexperience but a world class player with management potential and one of the best coaches in the premiership, good combination and the kind Ince needed to suceed.

The FA must step in and change it, too many potentially good managers will fall by the wayside. Its like learning to run before learning to walk. Just to put our courses in perspective:

my a licence took 18 months

20-25 days of that where in training with supervision

about 80% is spent on the training pitch, most of the time your playing and not coaching, maybe one session a day.

Just as we don't produce home-grown talent any more, we don't produce good coaches.

[Tom]

Obviously I'm delighted we stayed up for many reasons but one of them is for Ince.

Sure he did a bad job here but he obviously didn't do that intentionally.

He did well at lower levels and just made the mistake of thinking he was ready for the top before he actually was, a view shared by the rovers board and a lot of rovers fan at the time.

I hope he can eventually restart at a lower level and work his way up slowly.

No grudges held from me.

[philipl]

Did Ince try to learn?

I think the key point here is about professionalism. We went the young head old head combination but the old heads apparently turned out to be Neanderthals rather than bang up to date in their thinking backed up by bags of experience.

My worry about Sam is he is trying too hard to prove points about the past instead of being a Rover.

[neekoy]

Wasn't this thread about everything that Ince isn't? Good show for the experienced managers however they really didn't bring us much exciting football.

That is the one thing that young managers do is, reinvigorate the game. We will see the same tactics and probably with a few mid table movers the same sorts of results next year.

The Sams of the world will always "do the job" but I can't honestly see any old heads (maybe O'Neill for the first 6 months) this year that have actually improved the quality of football played by their teams.

[gillibrand]

Without "FIRST" obtaining the relevant qualifications no one should be allowed to manage in the Premiership, end of!

[tony gale's mic]

At least Ince had done well in the lower divisions. Adams was a miserable failure in his previous lower league role. At least BRFC have that as somewhat of an excuse Portsmouth had no defense at all.

Ince will probably find it a lot easier to get offers than Adams ever will.

I would rather support BRFC in league 1 than watch a Lancashire Utd side.

True but Adams had been an assistant at the club and in theory at least knew the players and, from their point of view, hopefully wouldve been best placed to continue the job. Plus Adams comes across as having more of the personal attributes needed for a good manager than Ince.

[philipl]

I think Roy Hodgson has improved Fulham in every respect, particularly the watchability of their football.

When Villa were firing, they were exhilerating to watch.

I also think that when Sam has not been crippled with unavailability to 50% or more of what would would normally have been the startng XI, Rovers have played some good stuff. For all the plaudits for Zola, Rovers footballed WHam off the park at Ewood for all except about 5 of the 90 minues.

[Amo]

I earmarked Steve Clarke as an alternative to Big Sam. There's the risk he could have fallen into the Brian Kidd, Sammy Lee and Ricky Sbragia bracket, but each case has to be judged on its own merits.

[T4E]

I also think that when Sam has not been crippled with unavailability to 50% or more of what would would normally have been the startng XI, Rovers have played some good stuff. For all the plaudits for Zola, Rovers footballed WHam off the park at Ewood for all except about 5 of the 90 minues.

Excellent point. When Hughes was here, we were accused of being "bully boys" and the stereotype stuck for a long time, much to the Rovers fans chagrin. The irony now is that our own fans as stereotyping Sam's team without even needing the help of the national media. I've been guilty of this myself.

Good point on Woy too - his stock is rising and deservedly so.

[riverside returns]

The thing with Hodgson is that he had a good first season with the Rovers then appeared to lose the plot. Hope that doesnt happen to Fulham as they are a nice smaller club like Rovers.

[ftry]

The thing with Hodgson is that he had a good first season with the Rovers then appeared to lose the plot. Hope that doesnt happen to Fulham as they are a nice smaller club like Rovers.

Well he's had a fantastic 1 1/2 seasons already at Fulham, longer than he was at Rovers.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Well he's had a fantastic 1 1/2 seasons already at Fulham, longer than he was at Rovers.

He's done well I've got to agree with that but he's been very lucky with injuries. The basis of the team has stayed the same more or less all season, one or two in and out but nothing major. I'd like to know how he'd have performed in our position- all the creative midfielders missing for large chunks of the season and down to one extremely immobile striker for the run in. Hangeland as a centre forward anybody ?

[Amo]

Anyone think Hodgson was similar to Souness, in that he was more successful on a smaller budget? Once he got his hands on Jack's dough, everything went pear-shaped (£7.25m Davies, £5.3m Dailly, £4.25m Blake).

[RevidgeBlue]

For all the plaudits for Zola, Rovers footballed WHam off the park at Ewood for all except about 5 of the 90 minues.

We were probably the better side that day but I wouldn't say we "out footballed" them by any stretch of the imagination.

We bombed long high balls into the box at every opportunity and they found it difficult to cope.

I would imagine most Rovers fans wouldn't like to see us play like that next season, and even if we did I doubt it would be effective over 38 games.

Re: Hodgson, all credit to him, he's done pretty well at Fulham, I thought he was a complete fraud after his time here.

That said, it stated on the radio the other week that Woy had been pretty lucky with injuries this season to the extent that seven of his players had been ever present!

Don't know if that's right or not, if so it must help.

[philipl]

I was at the West Ham game and remember thinking that the Rovers' ground approach football was disproving those who thought Sam's football was one dimmensional long high punts.

[American]

Funny, I was there too and remember our whole attack was to get the hammers to put the ball out of bounds in our end and then either boom in a corner or a long throw by MGP.

[Iceman]

I think Zola proved you can as an inexperienced manager, make a success of it. So why did he prove a success, and Ince didnt? The obvious answer is that Zola aquainted himself with an experienced guy in Clarke. Ince however brought 2nd hand goods with him on the management side, and imo ultimately cost him his job.

[tony gale's mic]

I think Zola proved you can as an inexperienced manager, make a success of it. So why did he prove a success, and Ince didnt? The obvious answer is that Zola aquainted himself with an experienced guy in Clarke. Ince however brought 2nd hand goods with him on the management side, and imo ultimately cost him his job.

I think Zola is far more cut out to be a good manager and far more tactically aware than Ince, regardless of the assistants.

[thenodrog]

Managers these days need to a. be able to motivate and b. shrewd tacticians. Both usually come with experience. The foreign temperaments will ask for different personnel skills to.

BUT the big difference now is created by the contract and transfer window situation. Managers now are forced to work with the players that are already in the club. Changing personel can take years of planning and seriously does not compute with the average 'life' expectancy of Prem managers. I think Hughes and Allardyce would both concur with that.

[Kelbo]

I think Zola proved you can as an inexperienced manager, make a success of it. So why did he prove a success, and Ince didnt? The obvious answer is that Zola aquainted himself with an experienced guy in Clarke. Ince however brought 2nd hand goods with him on the management side, and imo ultimately cost him his job.

Exactly Iceman, Whilst Zola had the badges, Clarke is a great coach and experienced in the premier league!!

Matthias had no experience outside the bottom two divisions!!

Also, Zola is a very approachable man and willing to learn, Ince was too much up his own arse and thought he knew it all, he still isnt completing his badges by the way!!

[Majiball]

Exactly Iceman, Whilst Zola had the badges, Clarke is a great coach and experienced in the premier league!!

Matthias had no experience outside the bottom two divisions!!

Also, Zola is a very approachable man and willing to learn, Ince was too much up his own arse and thought he knew it all, he still isnt completing his badges by the way!!

Zola doesn't even have his A-licence, at least he didn't when he joined. Clarke has his pro so I guess they used that to get him in, they said no more after Ince and sneaked him in the back-door, it really grates me that this still happens.

Zola

To this day, I'd love to know what JW thought when the coaches names where put forward????????