[Archived] Pre-season

[owenrilla]

I think people suggesting that Hibs were good are going overboard. They have one decent player (on tonights evidence at least) - Zemmama - who can carry the ball but didn't do much with it as far as I can remember and they only created one chance of note, which was missed from a yard or so out at the back post. Other than that they did sod all of any worth.

That said, Rovers were generally pretty crap as well. It may be worth noting that Sam said after the match that those who played tonight - those playing in internationals next week - will not play against Dundee so the line-up isn't necessarily a direct indication of the team that will face Man City. Presumably players like Warnock and Diouf were not playing tonight with the intention of them playing at the weekend.

Robinson had nothing to do. Samba and Zurab/Nelsen were largely unchallenged. Olsson is frustrating - he didn't have much defending to do but there were a number of times when he received the ball with acres of space to run into and attack the full back and he kept stopping and turning infield. Jacobsen was pretty average/anonymous really (not necessarily a bad thing), though he was a little more prominent in the second half. He looked solid enough and (just) quick enough for me to be confident of saying he is preferable to Simpson or Andrews. Its worth remembering that he barely played last season and therefore hasn't much PL experience but he didn't look a liability so lets give him a chance eh?

Pedersen drifted in and out of the game as one has come to expect. He seemed determined to score tonight, especially first half but failed. He also managed one or two corners beyond the first man but soon reverted to type. Him and Olsson barely managed to pass to each other accurately throughout. Gallagher did OK but nothing to suggest he shold start on the right rather than Diouf. He wandered around the pitch quite a bit - not sure if this was intended tactically or Gallagher realised that there was a huge gap batween the central midfielders and the strikers and tried to fill it. Credit to him if it was the latter. N'Zonzi looks like he could be a player. He gets around the pitch, wins most things in the air and can pass (though he appears to prefer to keep it simple). Watching the warm up beforehand he could be a goal threat if his shooting is anything to go by but rarely found himself far enough up the pitch to have a go - the one time he did was on his left foot and poor. I would prefer not to have to play him at the moment - one of the problems I can see is communication. He was taking instructions off Andrews (demoralising enough in itself ) but looked like he needed Samba to translate. Then we come to Keith. The best word I can come up with to sum up his performance is 'meh'. He looked average against an average team. He wasn't terrible, just another body running around doing very little. His one contribution of note was the already mentioned lunge which came out of nowhere (the word brainfart may be appropriate) but could have resulted in a red card from some referees.

On a more positive note I can see promising signs from Di Santo. He is quick across the ground, gets stuck in, works hard and has decent strength to hold defenders off. Could have scored once or twice and looks good technically. I the team ahead of Roberts for me. If Roberts could shoot straight we would have won tonight. Are we sure he knows his left from his right and has the boots on the correct feet? Perhaps more worrying (as we know what he is like finishing wise) was that he looked a little short of pace tonight to me.

Of the other subs, Hoilett looked lively but nothing fell for him or gave him the chance to stretch his legs (still be better wide IMO), van Heerden gave the ball away too much, Doran looked quick but barely touched the ball (came on centrally )

As if we didn't know already, what the team on show tonight clearly needed was a player in a central area who can either run past people with the ball or who can pick a pass in attacking areas (or both preferably). The only Rovers player who gets anywhere near this is Dunn. If he cannot stay fit we need another option. We have too many midfielders who can only pass sideways. Tonights central midfield lacked any attacking flair but doesn't have a destroyer either (at this point Mokoena would have had a decent chance of starting) so could easily be overrun.

Assuming no further signings, until the currently unavailable midfielders come back (only Grella and Dunn are injured (plus Givet), Reid and Emerton just unfit) it looks to me like Warnock has to play in midfield with Givet at LB (assuming the injury isn't too bad). At least that way there will be a bit of energy and fight in there.

[Miker]

I haven't seen the matches in full, but judging from the highlights I've seen of the pre-season matches it's clear to me that Rovers havent't played anywhere near full strength, so people criticising the team for lack of energy etc. is laughable considering the team is clearly taking it easy to get their match fitness up and be ready for the new season.

I don't know how many of you play or have played for a senior club (and I'm not talking about professionally), but any pre-season match is simply a warm up for the team. Players put in an effort, but they're not going to kill themselves to put on the best performance of their careers. This would be even more likely for professional players playing in the best league in the world who need to do everything in their power to avoid injuries.

Seriously guys, calm down... just because we're not winning games 5-0 in pre-season means absolutely nothing for the season to come. I think Spurs last season under Ramos won all their pre-season games with huge scores, but then had an absolute shocker of a season.

I'm pleased to see some of the younger players in the team performing well, but my biggest concern at this point would be the players picking up knocks as you would hope injuries would not be as much of a concern again this season.

[Paul]

I have to disagree with this widely held "we showed top half form in the second half of last season" assertion. I thought we had a good five or six games after Sam first came in, played quite well and from memory amassed quite a few points in that short window.

Thereafter we were poor in terms of performances and no better than average in terms of picking up points imo.

Good to know I'm not the only one.

Being a pleasant enough evening we decided to wander down to Ewood for the game. If it had been cold, wet November Wednesday I'd have come home very depresssed as it is this is just a friendly and we shouldn't read too much into it though I had hoped to see more signs of promise. Rovers certainly dominated the game throughout but Hibs offered very little attacking threat other than through their number 7. Despite the dominance Rovers never threatened a truely awful Hibs keeper, we had perhaps two reasonable chances though the middle, nothing at all came from either wing.

Of our established players we saw performances that matched expectations, nothing new to say on any of them. Of the new lads:

Jacobsen at right back should do a competent job, certainly looks the best choice at the moment. Has Simpson gone back to OT? He was just a loan I think?

Di Santo, hmmm. He does have talent, is stronger than he looks and could become a goal scorer but I have the feeling this is a better deal for Chelsea than it is for Rovers. Chelsea will discover if he can do it at PL level without damagaing their title aspirations, if he can't all the damage will be left at Ewood Park. I'd be more excited if he was a permanent signing, as things stand if he's not scoring soon he shouldn't be playing as he will be taking a spot which should be filled by one of OUR strikers. Far better to be playing Kalinic than Di Santo to let him (Kalinic) gain experience or Roberts / McCarthy to boost confidence.

N'Zoni is a tall gangly midfielder who plays just in front of the back four. Runs around a lot, heads the ball but never sure where it's going, doesn't seem to use his feet much (except for running), all his passes where sideways or backwards. Hopefully Sam has seen something but on last night's effort this signing does nothing to improve the midfield.

van Heerden only got 6 minutes so hard to judge anything and Hoilett offered very little in his 25 minutes or so on the pitch.

This was only a friendly but the total lack of midfield creativity has to remain a worry. Nothing from either wing and we are so slow through the middle we may as well send the opposition a letter to tell them what the next move will be. We did keep the ball on the ground all the time, can't remember a siingle long ball and only one long throw-in which is a real relief. On this basis we'll finish 15-16th and flirt with relegation; there will be some worries along the way but ultimately we'll be solid and an uninspiring and several sides will be worse than Rovers.

There was a very swarthy looking, dark haired young man in the director's area who was taking notes throughout the game. Looked as though he could be Croatian. He doesn't match the pictures I could find of Kalinic but if it is him full mrks for taking a very close interest in the game.

[brfcs5359]

There's too many impondrables, questions unanswered. Deliberate mixing of selections and lack of fitness as Sam said. The pluses for this season are potentially

The return of Dunn, Grella, Reid, Emerton and the much improved form of Robinson. The signings of Kalinic and Di Santos. The minuses are the loss of Cruz however he hardly played so won't therefore be missed as much

nzonzi, heerden, hoillet are chancers. Nzonzi looks like he has been dropped in from the French 3rd division. As are one or two youngsters who I think will be brought on by BFS this year in cup fixtures.

I think there is hope (I hope!) that big improvement will

come from Gallagher finally and Ollson certainly strengthening the squad further.

The absence of Simpson will help but I fear Jacobson is pants. Absolute pants to the point where BFS signed him as cover at right back. Emerton and Diouf playing right side in tandem?

We also have transfer funds and players other clubs want to buy. We need to offload one or two or six! Andrews McCarthy, Roberts, jacobson!

It is clear taking a positive look at things we are much better placed this season. Mark Hughes left a rebuilding job and BFS has a task on his hands.

[Miker]

We also have transfer funds and players other clubs want to buy. We need to offload one or two or six! Andrews McCarthy, Roberts, jacobson!

Yea... because we're going to offload a guy we just bought, a guy we just signed on a 4 year deal and our only 2 experienced strikers... give me a break.

[RovertheHill]

We did keep the ball on the ground all the time, can't remember a siingle long ball and only one long throw-in which is a real relief.

You must be mistaken . Several esteemed posters have already told us we will be playing hoofball all season...

[Plastic Head]

Dunn and Grella are ruled out of the start of the season.

Dunn....Grella....injured....

I don't believe it!

[JAL]

Keith Andrews is a League One player at best - Steven N'zonzi came from the French Third Division. (Before the flaming begins, I think N'zonzi could be a decent player in the future, but the step up we're seemingly expecting him to make is ludicrous.)

To expect these two players to compete against ANY other centre-midfield pairing in the Premier League is insanity.

I also question the logic of pinning our goalscoring hopes for next season on the shoulders of two relatively inexperienced 21-year-olds (even if they are 6-foot-plus).

I will reiterate that pre-season games mean nothing, but the squad is worrying at the moment - Kalinic or no Kalinic.

Big Sams got to move out a midfielder or two, and bring in a midfielder or two, to change the whole look of the Rovers team and move it into a more positive fashion than it currently is.

[brfcshabba]

Large parts of the game last night. Both N'Zonzi and Andrews just stood and watched the hibs midfield pass around. What we lack is a Savage type who can actually chase the ball around (alright not that skillfull or creative) but will pressure the midfield rather than standing around and letting them pass around at will.

[Hughesy]

Keith Andrews is a League One player at best - Steven N'zonzi came from the French Third Division. (Before the flaming begins, I think N'zonzi could be a decent player in the future, but the step up we're seemingly expecting him to make is ludicrous.)

To expect these two players to compete against ANY other centre-midfield pairing in the Premier League is insanity.

I also question the logic of pinning our goalscoring hopes for next season on the shoulders of two relatively inexperienced 21-year-olds (even if they are 6-foot-plus).

I will reiterate that pre-season games mean nothing, but the squad is worrying at the moment - Kalinic or no Kalinic.

Keith Andrews is a premier league midfielder for Blackburn. He was also wanted by Fulham, and is an international midfielder for Ireland.

Why is the step up for N'Zonzi ludicrous?

We are not pinning our hopes on two 21 year olds. We also have Benni & Roberts for experience. What would you of preferred?

[unluckymorton]

What we've got to remember is that last nights game was a warm up, a training session against decent opposition to get the lads fit and to look at different options. We had a lot of fringe players out there that wouldn't usually play, new additions that haven't even settled in yet. The likes of Warnock, Nelson, Givet & Diouf were on the bench, Warnock, Nelson, Givet and Diouf will be regular starters next season.

I thought the likes of N'Zonzi, Hoilett and Di Santos looked exciting prospects in a game against a strong Hibs 1st team. Gallagher also looked decent, taking a couple of good corners and causing the opposition problems.

If last nights game was a competitive game there would have been a lot more urgency and more of a will to win.

It seems a lot of 'supporters' are already writing us off for next season. Friendly results mean nothing, Birmingham were beaten by Tamworth, A West Ham XI were beaten by Bishops Stortford, Blackpool have beaten Everton, Oxford have beaten Villa.... It does not matter. It will be a different story a week on Saturday When we take on Man City.

It's a shame more couldn't get down to Ewood last night to welcome the new faces and get behind the lads.

[rover6]

Large parts of the game last night. Both N'Zonzi and Andrews just stood and watched the hibs midfield pass around. What we lack is a Savage type who can actually chase the ball around (alright not that skillfull or creative) but will pressure the midfield rather than standing around and letting them pass around at will.

The Savage is obsolete in the modern game. As Derby are finding out.

With the speed of pass and movement, a defending midfield needs to hold his position and use his anticipation and positioning to protect the penalty box. Haring after the ball is pointless. Football is, to put it pompously, a high speed chess match, not a game of kiss chase (poor old Sav...!)

I am still frustrated that Allardyce does not play at least on pacy winger. We have a few options. None proven at Prem level but, for my money, they'll improve the team by introducing some width to proceedings.

[Hughesy]

I am still frustrated that Allardyce does not play at least on pacy winger. We have a few options. None proven at Prem level but, for my money, they'll improve the team by introducing some width to proceedings.

Who would you drop and who would you put in that place?

[unluckymorton]

Who would you drop and who would you put in that place?

I think without bringing Ripley back we're goosed on that one.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Who would you drop and who would you put in that place?

Pedersen? Van Heerden and Hoilett could do a job on that left wing, or Diouf could switch to the left.

[Hughesy]

Who would take corners, free-kicks and long throws?

Which of those above would also do the tracking back that Pedersen does?

[RibbleValleyRover]

Who would take corners, free-kicks and long throws?

Long throws are probably the only thing we would miss from that list. For the last few seasons 9 times out of 10 he couldn't clear the first man with a corner and his freekicks into the box have been dire.

Which of those above would also do the tracking back that Pedersen does?

Not that concerned about that, would rather have a defender on the left side holding back and defending and leave the winger to do his proper function i.e. attack. If Sam plans to play Givet he can easilly do this.

[Hughesy]

If Givet plays left back then yes - although I still wouldnt drop Gamst just yet for any of those mentioned. Maybe Van Herden when he finds his feet. Hoilett I think will be used as an impact sub to start with.

Its like people moaning about Jacobsen not attacking much - he's a right back, we need some players that stay back for a change instead of going on mad runs forward.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Hughesy,

As a winger you need to be able to attack and put in decent service to the forwards. There are two types of wingers:

1- Wingers that can dribble and take on the opposition defence.

2- Wingers that rely on crossing ability rather than taking men on.

(Ones that can do both are rare and cost lots of money).

Pedersen doesn't meet the first criteria because he isn't pacey and can't take players on. So you are then relying on his ability to put in a decent cross into the box from out wide. Something he hasn't done consistantly for several seasons.

If Sam admires his defensive qualities so much perhaps he should play him as a fullback...

[Parsonblue]

The Savage is obsolete in the modern game. As Derby are finding out.

With the speed of pass and movement, a defending midfield needs to hold his position and use his anticipation and positioning to protect the penalty box. Haring after the ball is pointless. Football is, to put it pompously, a high speed chess match, not a game of kiss chase (poor old Sav...!)

I am still frustrated that Allardyce does not play at least on pacy winger. We have a few options. None proven at Prem level but, for my money, they'll improve the team by introducing some width to proceedings.

Who do we have who has real genuine pace apart Olsson? Diouf and Pedersen both work hard defensively but neither has blistering pace. Doran, like Judge, is a busy type of player but is not exceptionally quick. He's more like a Damien Johnson type of player. From what I have seen of van Heerden, he is a neat and tidy player who uses the ball well but it remains to be seen if he is genuinely quick.

I also don't believe that the systems that Sam operates favour the old fashioned winger. Whoever plays in the wide positions is required to do a certain amount of work defensively - a factor which I suspect has counted against Judge. He wasn't quick enough for the wide position and lacked the physique to operate in the centre of midfield. It was interesting that Doran was given a central midfield role last night. He has not been at as his best this pre-season and didn't make much impression last night in midfield. I suspect a wide position is still his best bet but, as I said, he will be more of a Damien Johnson type winger rather than a sprinter.

[Amo]

Pacey wingers are fine and all, but if they lack technique then they're a liability. If they constantly lose possession, despite their best intentions, it puts the team on the back-foot and the full-back under unnecessary pressure. Players like that certainly don't fall into Big Sam's methodical approach to the game. Now if we could find someone with the speed AND smarts to attack the flank, that would be something else. Answers on a postcard!

[G Somerset Rover]

This was only a friendly but the total lack of midfield creativity has to remain a worry. Nothing from either wing and we are so slow through the middle we may as well send the opposition a letter to tell them what the next move will be. We did keep the ball on the ground all the time, can't remember a siingle long ball and only one long throw-in which is a real relief. On this basis we'll finish 15-16th and flirt with relegation; there will be some worries along the way but ultimately we'll be solid and an uninspiring and several sides will be worse than Rovers.

My worry too Paul. If it's even possible, the loss of Tugay has made our midfield even less creative - we are well and truly devoid of any ideas coming from the centre of the park. It's no good splashing out on a striker (Kalinic) if he's going to have his hands on his hips looking back at the Rovers goal for the majority of the game. A potential midfield of Diouf Andrews N'Zonzi Pedersen has surely got to be the least effective in the Premiership? Dunn and Grella were "aiming to get a full pre-season in" and unsuprisngly haven't done so, and Emerton and Reid will be playing serious catch-up once they do fully recover (doubtful the latter ever will).

I don't know whether it's because the big kick off is getting closer but as it does I'm getting more and more pessimistic about our fortunes. I'm pretty sure there will be three worst teams than us but I can't help but feel that we're in for a long season.

[Kelbo]

The Savage is obsolete in the modern game. As Derby are finding out.

With the speed of pass and movement, a defending midfield needs to hold his position and use his anticipation and positioning to protect the penalty box. Haring after the ball is pointless. Football is, to put it pompously, a high speed chess match, not a game of kiss chase (poor old Sav...!)

I am still frustrated that Allardyce does not play at least on pacy winger. We have a few options. None proven at Prem level but, for my money, they'll improve the team by introducing some width to proceedings.

Rover6, you are either involved or have played some football, you are correct, good sides with one and two touch football would make things very difficult for a player like Sav now, they would simply pass it round you, when I played football, pace was an asset, now it is a neccessity if we are to get round the back of defences and though we havent seen much of Hoilett, Van Heerden or DI Santo etc I understand they have pace and I am sure Sam will try and exploit that quite soon!!

There are other ways of course, Riply wasnt quick, he was quick off the mark and had the change of pace to be able to get a cross in from the bye line!

Football has changed, in some ways for the better in others for the worse, but, for me, in midfield we surely cannot keep playing Andrews there, he has no pace, no touch and is not a good passer of the ball, despite hiis effort and workrate it is not good enough, there must be quite a few championship players looking at him and thinking, christ, I am much better than that!!

So the answer for me, despite him being deployed up front in games, would be Hoilett, quickish, good control of the ball, can chip in with goals and can pass, if he can put a decent cross in, we have our solution!!

[dr_awol]

Can’t believe I’m going to miss the Dundee Utd game. Booked a holiday a few days before the game was confirmed

Utd have just signed Nicky Weaver on loan until January.

They have a normally solid defence.

They have a few good young midfielders partially Gomis and Scot Robertson.

Utd have problems with their strike force, Casalinuovo, Sandaza, Daly all out with injuries

Off to Greece

[Kelbo]

Pacey wingers are fine and all, but if they lack technique then they're a liability. If they constantly lose possession, despite their best intentions, it puts the team on the back-foot and the full-back under unnecessary pressure. Players like that certainly don't fall into Big Sam's methodical approach to the game. Now if we could find someone with the speed AND smarts to attack the flank, that would be something else. Answers on a postcard!

Just a point here, this actually defies modern coaching techniques, but a wide player doesnt want the ball at his feet when attacking, he wants the ball played either on the outside of the full back or in the channels between CB and full back for him to run on to!! This also illiminates the ball being lost for even the worst scenario would be a poor cross or goal kick!!