[Archived] End Of Manc Dominance?

[philipl]

Perhaps looks wierd after the Mancs completed three PL titles on the trot but I think the warning signs are there.

- no club can year in year out be charged £80m in interest without it eventually damaging the playing side

- current reports indicate that Man City are £5m ahead of their neighbours in bidding for Tevez; the Mancs hae massively mishandled the Tevez situation (because they are crippled by the need to conserve cash for their finances) and losing the tough brilliant Tevez to Wastelands could be as big a psychologically devastating blow as the whole it leaves in their squad.

- the new crop of young players are probably good enough for top half of the Prem, might just squeeze into Big 4 standard but certainly don't look world beaters at this stage.

- there were three critical defeas that point to decline at the end of last season:

With the Quintuple on, they could not despatch an injury-ravaged Everton in the FA Cup semi-final

Liverpool humiliated them at OT

Barcelona were miles better than the Mancs who simply hadn't a clue how to compete unlike Chelsea who were a dodgy Norwegian ref away from putting Barca out over two legs.

- at this stage, they still have to play Scholes and Giggs, both of whom are years over their peak. If the Manc midfield wobbles, their defence and keeper are no way as good as they think they are.

I might be wrong, but I sense the years of RFW defying the internal financal constraints at OT are finally coming to an end. Ferguson had a good run of getting every transfer signing right but last summer's outlays have yet to pay off and he has to be a magician in the market this summer to avoid things going pear-shaped.

[Ricky]

their defence and keeper are no way as good as they think they are.

Is this the defence and keeper that just had the best run in european football for clean sheets??

Think you've been out in the sun a bit too much Phillip.

[Hughesy]

A lot depends on Ronaldo. If he goes, then it’s a massive loss (especially if they don’t hang on tevez). If he stays then they will be fine. He would be a big blow to them, but still even then they have so much talent its unbelievable.

Don’t forget they have Anderson (Improving all the time) and they have the two serbs who will start to improve (Tosic (sp?) and the other kid they signed), they also have some youngsters who are improving all the time – like Rafael, Possebon, Gibson, Marcheda & Wellbeck.

Id say that unless Liverpool spend big in the summer, then only Chelsea can realistically challenge them.

[thenodrog]

A lot depends on Ronaldo. If he goes, then it’s a massive loss (especially if they don’t hang on tevez). If he stays then they will be fine. He would be a big blow to them, but still even then they have so much talent its unbelievable.

Don’t forget they have Anderson (Improving all the time) and they have the two serbs who will start to improve (Tosic (sp?) and the other kid they signed), they also have some youngsters who are improving all the time – like Rafael, Possebon, Gibson, Marcheda & Wellbeck.

Id say that unless Liverpool spend big in the summer, then only Chelsea can realistically challenge them.

Unless gullible new owners come in willing to pander to the infantile spaniard I cannot see that happening at all. Be interesting to hear the RBoS take on that issue.

[DE.]

I think Utd will be in far more trouble if they sell Ronaldo. Tevez is good, but they can do without him, and he's not worth 32M. Ronaldo, on the other hand, is integral to their team and replacing him would be very difficult. Should they lose Tevez they still have Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Wellbeck, Macheda... plus another likely to arrive in the summer. Who replaces Ronaldo and gives anywhere near the same level of consistant match-winning performance?

[LeChuck]

Clutching at a few straws there Philip considering they weren't far off winning a quadruple this season! Giggs and Scholes only played a part in Rome because Fletcher and Hargreaves were out, the game would have been a lot more interesting if those two were in there to disrupt Xavi and Iniesta.

Also, from what I can gather, they just don't consider Tevez to be worth the money is owners are asking for. If RFW decides £25 million is too much and spends the money elsewhere I'd wager a fairly large amount that he'd make the right decision.

[jim mk2]

Perhaps looks wierd after the Mancs completed three PL titles on the trot but I think the warning signs are there.

I might be wrong, but I sense the years of RFW defying the internal financal constraints at OT are finally coming to an end. Ferguson had a good run of getting every transfer signing right but last summer's outlays have yet to pay off and he has to be a magician in the market this summer to avoid things going pear-shaped.

You've been predicting the demise of United ever since the Glazers moved in, since when the club has continued to dominate the Prem and won the European Cup.

No doubt you will be right - one day.

[Hughesy]

Like LeChuck says - Fergie rarely gets it wrong with letting big players leave when it looks like a crazy decision. He did it with Beckham, Van Nistlerooy etc.

[ni_rover]

United are the best team in the Premiership by a long shot. Getting rid of Ronaldo will just make them even better because he is a prick and give them alot of money to strengthen further.

[gumboots]

Is this the defence and keeper that just had the best run in european football for clean sheets??

Think you've been out in the sun a bit too much Phillip.

He didn't say the defence wasn't good but that they need their midfield to protect them just like all teams do. It was chelsea's midfield holding out barcelona's that meant they so nearly beat them. the United midfield against Barcelona was not their first choice, struggled and let Barcelona straight through onto Vidic and Ferdinand who then panicked and looked scared stiff.

[joey_big_nose]

He didn't say the defence wasn't good but that they need their midfield to protect them just like all teams do. It was chelsea's midfield holding out barcelona's that meant they so nearly beat them. the United midfield against Barcelona was not their first choice, struggled and let Barcelona straight through onto Vidic and Ferdinand who then panicked and looked scared stiff.

To be fair to them if Ferguson had Hargreaves and Fletcher available it would have been a completely different kettle of fish entirely. Much more solid. Still, Ferguson was a lunatic for not playing five in midfield against Barca when they didn't have a single tackler in there. That was poor tactics.

Anyhow, before everybody starts gloating you can bet your bottom dollar Ferguson will go out and buy some incredible defensive minded central player this summer (unless they are sure Hargreaves will be fit). Its the clear weakness, so Ferguson will address it with his massive check book.

This is what happens in the predictable world of the Premier League. Hey ho.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just going back to the Barca game, Fergie got out thought tactically. When Messi moved into the centre and E'to moved out wide right the Red Rats hadn't a clue how to combat it. Messi kept dropping off and going deep into midfield , Ferdinand and Vidic didn't know wether to stick or twist, so they ended up marking nobody while Messi caused havoc in front of them

Fergie should have took Vidic off and brought a midfielder on to mark Messi and he should have got Carrick to play just off Ferdinand.

Playing with four outright forwards when you're getting overrun in midfield is Kamikazi football. It might work in the Prem against the likes of Spurs but it won't wash against Barcelona. 4-2-4 went out in the sixties when Sir Alf reverted to 4-3-3 . Three average players will nearly always overcome two good ones in midfield.

When the three is Iniesta, Xavi and Messi you're in for a football lesson.

[chocky]

Nothing lasts forever..It was going to happen one way or another...Like one of the posters says if Ronaldo does go, and there is a good chance he will, then I'd say yes...Manchester City's money and chelsea's will make a difference eventually..All that debt may also come back to haunt United and maybe Liverpool..

[Billy Castell]

As long as Ferguson is in charge, they'll be OK. However, the next manager may have trouble. If they have a crappy season and go out of the CL early, or worse still, not qualify, then the pack of cards will collapse.

[tcj_jones]

I must say that losing Tevez will be a huge blow for United and they will struggle to replace him. Furthermore, it was Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez that made United the team they were last season. This season, neither Rooney nor Ronaldo have performed to quite the same heights, while Berbatov hasn't made nearly the impression that I thought he would.

In general, I feel that the current crop of youngsters at Old Trafford, particularly the British ones, aren't a patch on the last generation. While some of their young foreign talent looks promising, they will never compete with Arsenal in this respect. Meanwhile, the British core of the team is slowly fading.

In midfield, United have exceptional depth, but they lack outstanding quality (Ronaldo aside, but he is playing up front more and more these days) as well as real strength and tenacity. Losing Tevez will add to this problem. Meanwhile, Scholes and Giggs are ageing and Nani and Anderson (though I do rate the latter) are, as yet, nowhere near good enough to fill their boots.

The defence is where United are undoubtedly strongest. They suffered at stages, but only because Neville and Brown were injured all season, while they were frequently forced to rotate Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Da Silva and O'Shea. This won't be as much of a problem next season.

The Champions League final was a bit of an eye opener for me and, contrary to the general trend on here, I did wonder at the time whether this was an important moment in the decline of United's footballing ascendency. Barca completely dominated the midfield, where Xavi and Iniesta made Carrick, Giggs and Anderson look second rate. Moreover, for the first time ever I started to doubt Ferguson's tactics in keeping Tevez and Scholes on the bench in place of Giggs and Anderson. Personally, I think they need a direct replacement for Scholes and an additional striker with huge quality to replace Tevez, and that will take a lot of money.

I don't think for a moment that United are in some kind of rapid, desperate decline, but with the old guard ageing and with Ferguson coming to the end of his tenure, I do wonder about the longevity of their Premier League hegemony. I think next season will see the gap close somewhat with Chelsea and Arsenal both making significant ground.

[Hasta]

The end of Manc dominance is coming. It'll be when RFW finally retires.

[RovertheHill]

I'm not convinced it's the end. There's enough idiots out there queueing for the right to go on a waiting list to be milked for a season ticket, buying two new shirts every year and all the other crap they sell and then a huge worldwide fan base subscribing to MUTV and God knows what else. Their income stream is pretty impressive

[1864roverite]

It would be the ultimate, HOWEVER United are a resourceful club. The biggest in the world ? Only second to Barcelona.

They have untold riches in the young player stakes, look at the players who are the next generation. Welbeck, Tosic, The two Brazilian full backs. The list is endless and there is no doubt that in their academy they have some good up coming players.

Even if clownaldo was sold they will still be a formidable outfit.

They aare clearly stalling as long as possible for Tevez to try and save a few bucks. Do you really think Tevez is going to go to Mankchester City ? What is on offer at the circus ?

Granted he will play every game but how do you see Robinho/Bellamy and Tevez playing in the same team, along with Elano, ireland, Petrov and Caceido ?

City have major problems looming, they want to go top 4 without even establishing themselves as a top 8 club first yet find themselves with far too many players.

They may have the cash but thats all they have. There is NO attraction apart from money at City.

They are light years from challenging the big 4, they are miles away from United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. They still have to catch the likes of Fulham and Villa, Everton and Spurs, indeed they only marginally finished above Rovers and look at the state our club has been in over the past 12 months.

I think you should redress your thoughts mate.

[Sandman]

Tevez is an average player, i don't understand why he is so hyped up. It does look likely that he will end up at city, most United supporters i know who go week in week out love Tevez's desire and passion but even they aren't blown away by him as a footballer.

As for United's dominance coming to an end, won't that be about the fifth time that's happened over the past decade if you believed the press, I make no secret of the fact that i have nothing bad to say about United as a club or Fergie himself, obviously philip has some weird obsession with them which i don't understand because they aren't our rivals.

And philip if you're hoping the Glazers make them the new Leeds and they go bust, well you're going to be very dissapointed. If at any time the glazers are forced to sell because of the debt, there are plenty of extremely wealthy people who are already interested in buying them, and that is a fact.

[neekoy]

To be fair to them if Ferguson had Hargreaves and Fletcher available it would have been a completely different kettle of fish entirely.

And to be fair to Barca, they had no Marquez, Abidal, Alaves, Milito, Hleb and Henry at 70% fit.

[Eddie]

Ah philipl, still predicting this after all of these years? United will win the title next season, make the champions league semis and possibly win one of the domestic cups. We have no idea how good some of those youngsters are and we won't until they are fully tested, but you can count on one or two of them being good enough for a title-winning side. As long as they have Ferguson in charge I'd never predict an end of their dominance, when he goes it will be less of a sure thing, but despite all your doom and gloom every side in this league would swap positions with them.

[Hughesy]

Looks like they could be getting Tevez afterall!

Manchester United hope to sign striker Carlos Tevez on a permanent deal on Wednesday - but only on their terms.

(Full story: Daily Mirror)

[philipl]

Looks like they could be getting Tevez afterall!

Manchester United hope to sign striker Carlos Tevez on a permanent deal on Wednesday - but only on their terms.

(Full story: Daily Mirror)

If City are seriously in for Tevez, United's terms will be not enough.

[Mc Love]

I must say that losing Tevez will be a huge blow for United and they will struggle to replace him. Furthermore, it was Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez that made United the team they were last season. This season, neither Rooney nor Ronaldo have performed to quite the same heights, while Berbatov hasn't made nearly the impression that I thought he would.

I agree with you but currently having discussion with manure supporting mate, and he said Rooney has had his best season in 5 seasons...? Dont believe that for a second and he is gone off looking for opta stats to prove it.

But if you look at their stats for the season, rooney is nowhere near it. And stats only mean so much too

[dave birch]

If City are seriously in for Tevez, United's terms will be not enough.

Then it's all about money, and where have I heard that one.......