[Archived] End Of Manc Dominance?

[Hughesy]

Dont forget United offered to match the offer to Valencia but were told not to bother as he had his heart set on Barca!

[philipl]

Man U have to sell to survive

[67splitscreen]

:lol: Don't you just LOVE it.

[Hughesy]

They have also just announced the biggest shirt sponsorship in the world at £80m.....

[philipl]

That £80m shirt deal is spread over 4 years and was announced a year ago. Basically it is the Glazer PR machine recycling good news to keep spirits up.

The £80m they sold Ronaldo for went in one season paying interest. Then in the last quarter they took a £47m hit in penalty clauses on their debt. Plus the fees for arranging the £500m bond were £35m and those two items are cash out all at once, not spread over four seasons.

Yes they are going flat out to keep their heads above water and are keeping themselves strongly cash positive which is why they are not going bust in the next few seasons but on the long term fundamentals the Glazers are about a billion pounds away from where they need to be.

This is reflected in the bond price- interest rates of 0.5% versus the bond average return of 8.75% on face value yet the bonds are now worth 92p in the market compared with the £1 paid for them just two months ago. I know the market has trended down but that to me says there is some future anticipated bad news now priced in.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

:lol: Don't you just LOVE it.

Personally NO.

How the feck have these clowns been able to do this to a football club(regardless of our dislike) is a disgrace.

[thenodrog]

Personally NO.

How the feck have these clowns been able to do this to a football club(regardless of our dislike) is a disgrace.

Personally YES! I rem standing on the BBurn End singing to some old Beatles tune 'What are we living for? To see United in Division 4" way back in the late 60's. Be magic if they crashed and burned. Test the loyalty of the thousands of 'Plastic Mancs' (we all know more than a few) too.

Rooney to Citeh anyone?

[Eddie]

I'd have to say that it would seem rather foolish for supporters of a club the size of ours to be hoping for the collapse of the largest global brand in this league. Surely the long-term future of television deals and advertising revenue for our club is linked to the success of the league and that is in part reliant on the survival of the big clubs and the continued success of English clubs in Europe. If we reach a stage where the large clubs are going under then I think it is unlikely that the foreign interest and supporters will simply redistribute themselves among the remaining premier league clubs; surely the majority would be redirected to foreign leagues, particularly La Liga and prominent clubs in Italy and Germany. It's sad in a way, but by developing football to the level that we have, have we all not made a deal with the devil where we need clubs like United to lead the way? Trickle-down economics may be flawed in many respects, but it may apply very well to sports.

[neekoy]

I'd have to say that it would seem rather foolish for supporters of a club the size of ours to be hoping for the collapse of the largest global brand in this league. Surely the long-term future of television deals and advertising revenue for our club is linked to the success of the league and that is in part reliant on the survival of the big clubs and the continued success of English clubs in Europe. If we reach a stage where the large clubs are going under then I think it is unlikely that the foreign interest and supporters will simply redistribute themselves among the remaining premier league clubs; surely the majority would be redirected to foreign leagues, particularly La Liga and prominent clubs in Italy and Germany. It's sad in a way, but by developing football to the level that we have, have we all not made a deal with the devil where we need clubs like United to lead the way? Trickle-down economics may be flawed in many respects, but it may apply very well to sports.

Not at all Eddie, Asians will stay pay to see David Beckham and as the only first speaking English country the appeal will always be for the English League.

You know there was quite a following prior to the Premier League outside of the UK.

If anything it will even the playing field of no just the PL but world wide, which is only good for competition and international football.

People will pay more and be more involved to watch a strong competition then a 2 horse race. I know I would probably care a bit more about paying the ludicrous costs of international pay TV if I knew Rovers had a chance of league glory.

[philipl]

Personally NO.

How the feck have these clowns been able to do this to a football club(regardless of our dislike) is a disgrace.

Very mixed feelings-

The reality is the Americans have hobbled both Man U and Liverpool so the PL has remained vaguely competitive as a spectacle and given the arrogance of their supporters it is no more than they deserve. Liverpool have dropped out of the CL into the first qualifying rounds of the Europa and how are Man U going to get back into title contention when their most significant transfer move so far this summer has been to ensure the Dad's Army of Neville, Scholes and Giggs don't leave?

On the other hand, the billion dollar debt (and the £100m a year that is leaving football in interest payments just for those two clubs for ZERO football investment) has stopped the Premier League from showing the rest of world football a completely clean pair of heels.

It is terrifying to contemplate what side would be at Old Trafford if Ferguson's annual transfer budget for each of the last five years had been £70m+ more than it has been. That would have been the case if the Glazers hadn't arrived and Man U would still be debt free.

[philipl]

Red Knights attempt over.

[American]

It is terrifying to contemplate what side would be at Old Trafford if Ferguson's annual transfer budget for each of the last five years had been £70m+ more than it has been. That would have been the case if the Glazers hadn't arrived and Man U would still be debt free.

Maybe similar to the Madrid side that won f-all last season?

(Edit: This "weakened" United side did win 3 straight titles and a Champions League title.)

[philipl]

Love him or hate him, Ferguson is a completely different animal to anyone who managed Real Madrid before Mourinho arrived there. The test of Madrid's spending last summer comes now.

Looks like the Red Knights beat a tactical retreat. Given who was involved, is it any surprise the Guardian are running a story on the Glazers' lack of substance and BBC Panorama are running a show tonight?. Panorama doesn't have the clout it used to of course and none of this is too problematic for the guys leeching on the Mancs.

[PAFELL]

Love him or hate him, Ferguson is a completely different animal to anyone who managed Real Madrid before Mourinho arrived there. The test of Madrid's spending last summer comes now.

Looks like the Red Knights beat a tactical retreat. Given who was involved, is it any surprise the Guardian are running a story on the Glazers' lack of substance and BBC Panorama are running a show tonight?. Panorama doesn't have the clout it used to of course and none of this is too problematic for the guys leeching on the Mancs.

Have you read todays article on the BBC Football website about how much the Glaziers really owe. Pretty damming and interesting piece, if true of course. (Sorry I Do not know how to post links)

[Billy Castell]

Have you read todays article on the BBC Football website about how much the Glaziers really owe. Pretty damming and interesting piece, if true of course. (Sorry I Do not know how to post links)

The BBC article.

Just had a read, and it does not sound good. If I read it correctly, the Glazers need their shopping malls to prop up the whole business empire, and they're struggling. £1.1b debt is mental and unmanageable however you put it, and if Man Utd did have a season like Liverpool's last season, they'd be out of business.

I think these Red nights will wait for the ___ to hit the fan, then try to buy the club on the cheap. At the moment, the Glazers are demanding a profit, and are not so desperate. Give it a year or two, and they may be.

[Rover Down Under]

...I think it is unlikely that the foreign interest and supporters will simply redistribute themselves among the remaining premier league clubs

Nah, they will totally redistribute themselves amongst which ever club is top of the league at the time, then claim they "supported" that team "all their lives." Where d'ya think all those Chelski fans came from? Cos they sure as hell weren't at Stamford Bridge circa 1992-2004.

I genuinely am hoping and praying at least one of the teams in red (in both senses) end up like Portsmouth, or worse, this coming season. And that is not from a sense of schadenfreude but a sense of justice, karma, just deserts, whatever you want to call it...

[thenodrog]

I genuinely am hoping and praying at least one of the teams in red (in both senses) end up like Portsmouth, or worse, this coming season. And that is not from a sense of schadenfreude but a sense of justice, karma, just deserts, whatever you want to call it...

Birthday and Christmas all in one! Better than sex!

[sparkspakespoke]

Birthday and Christmas all in one! Better than sex!

Debt even bigger than first thought

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10237268.stm

[Mattyblue]

Nah, they will totally redistribute themselves amongst which ever club is top of the league at the time, then claim they "supported" that team "all their lives." Where d'ya think all those Chelski fans came from? Cos they sure as hell weren't at Stamford Bridge circa 1992-2004.

I genuinely am hoping and praying at least one of the teams in red (in both senses) end up like Portsmouth, or worse, this coming season. And that is not from a sense of schadenfreude but a sense of justice, karma, just deserts, whatever you want to call it...

Too bloody right!

Liverpool fans have an arrogance not even Utd fans can match and seeing them crash and burn would be something to savour!

[Paul]

I genuinely am hoping and praying at least one of the teams in red (in both senses) end up like Portsmouth, or worse, this coming season. And that is not from a sense of schadenfreude but a sense of justice, karma, just deserts, whatever you want to call it...

While a lot of people might agree with you, and in a way I do, the likelihood of this happening to United, whatever the Glazer debt, is remote. United is one of a few truely profitable clubs and should the Glazers run in to difficulites there are plenty of people with the funds to buy and run United at a real profit. With current interest rates significantly lower than those the Glazers pay making money and increasing the transfer pot would be a very likely outcome. As for Liverpool, I'd suggest they are simply going to slip down the table a little and join the rest of us in making up the numbers in the PL. Liverpool need another Bill Shankly to rescue them. For those too young to know / remember Liverpool were struggling in the Second Division when Shankly arrived and over a 15 year period laid the foundations for and built the world famous club as we know it today.

[neekoy]

Shankly

The good thing is there is no 2nd coming for them

[philipl]

If the Abu Dhabi Sheikh is buying, there will be.

[thenodrog]

If the Abu Dhabi Sheikh is buying, there will be.

It's an old potato and I doubt it could happen but I wonder if the govt could implement some special measures to make sure that any money coming into this country via football actually remains in the country?

[neekoy]

If the Abu Dhabi Sheikh is buying, there will be.

Nah, there is not a Manager available at the moment who can win them the PL title.

[philipl]

KD has just chucked his hat into the ring to manage Liverpool. He has been running their Academy long enough to know what there is out there.

Back to Man U and their Chief Executive is being challenged by supporters to state that no money from the club will be used to repay the Glazers' own £220m loans which are racking up interest at 16.25%. The Glazers are tough cookies but they are finding now they can run but they cannot hide.