[Archived] End Of Manc Dominance?

[S15]

Yes, of course the numbers are crazy, you and I have been singing this hymn, in different ways, for years.

Part of Phils bible length hymn was/is Man Utd going bust and 'doing a Leeds.'

5 years later they are still one of only two teams capable of winning the title, and one of five capable of winning the Champions League. The Glaziers could go bust today, and Utd would have new owners tomorrow.

I don't understand why people get so excited about them and their business/financial misadventures.

[CrazyIvan]

It is a hedge fund term.

What it means that instead of interest being paid, a credit card rate of interest is charged and added to the principle to be repaid.

The "in kind" means interest is replaced by more debt (compound) which is how the Glazers are well on their way to turning a £130m debt into a £550m debt when this instrument matures and they can no longer avoid paying it back.

Just look at those numbers and tell me is this a sensible business proposition or a desperation play by people in it up to their necks and beyond?

I know people have taken the p1ss out of you numerous times with regard to the idea that one of these teams is going to go under but these figures are insane. No one can maintain that level of debt indefinitely and it has to bite back at some point. I wonder if the pay-back will occur around the time that old red nose decides to retire. The only way out of that mess has to be someone with way more money than sense decides to buy Man U and pay off all the debt... I guess there are plenty out there that can afford to do that... I think Liverpool's position is much more precarious with the team playing like Championship material and the debt closer to getting called in. I still somehow doubt they will go under as someone will buy the lot up at some point. They'll have to be daft because there can't be anything left as a return on investment now...

[philipl]

Perhaps looks wierd after the Mancs completed three PL titles on the trot but I think the warning signs are there. <img src="http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

- no club can year in year out be charged £80m in interest without it eventually damaging the playing side

- current reports indicate that Man City are £5m ahead of their neighbours in bidding for Tevez; the Mancs hae massively mishandled the Tevez situation (because they are crippled by the need to conserve cash for their finances) and losing the tough brilliant Tevez to Wastelands could be as big a psychologically devastating blow as the whole it leaves in their squad.

- the new crop of young players are probably good enough for top half of the Prem, might just squeeze into Big 4 standard but certainly don't look world beaters at this stage.

- there were three critical defeas that point to decline at the end of last season:

With the Quintuple on, they could not despatch an injury-ravaged Everton in the FA Cup semi-final

Liverpool humiliated them at OT

Barcelona were miles better than the Mancs who simply hadn't a clue how to compete unlike Chelsea who were a dodgy Norwegian ref away from putting Barca out over two legs.

- at this stage, they still have to play Scholes and Giggs, both of whom are years over their peak. If the Manc midfield wobbles, their defence and keeper are no way as good as they think they are.

I might be wrong, but I sense the years of RFW defying the internal financal constraints at OT are finally coming to an end. Ferguson had a good run of getting every transfer signing right but last summer's outlays have yet to pay off and he has to be a magician in the market this summer to avoid things going pear-shaped.

That was my position when I started this thread and still is. I haven't said Man U would go bust or fail to find a buyer- I have said and maintain that without the Glazers, Man U would have been out of sight in terms of global dominance.

[rebelmswar]

Report that includes information on cuts to salary and lack of spending in Tampa Bay Bucs.

My link

Forbes report highlighting the decline in the Bucs ticket sales and plummeting revenue.

My link

[philipl]

Man U fail to sell out season tickets

[philipl]

Buccaneers in trouble. Austerity heading to OT

Yet many Bucs fans repeatedly link the underspending to the takeover of United, bought by the Glazers in 2005 with borrowings of £559m, which were then loaded on to United to repay. Since then, England's highest-earning club has poured out an eyewatering £400m in interest, bank fees and charges, yet still the total debt has mushroomed, to £716m.

Terrifying to think what Ferguson would have done with a £400m budget!!!

[American]

Probably something like 3 league titles and a Champions League trophy....

[BuckyRover]

He would have done nearly as well as Sam would with the same amount.

Allegedly.

[Commondore]

It is a hedge fund term.

What it means that instead of interest being paid, a credit card rate of interest is charged and added to the principle to be repaid.

The "in kind" means interest is replaced by more debt (compound) which is how the Glazers are well on their way to turning a £130m debt into a £550m debt when this instrument matures and they can no longer avoid paying it back.

Just look at those numbers and tell me is this a sensible business proposition or a desperation play by people in it up to their necks and beyond?

Explain the financial crisis in 10 sentences or less.

[philipl]

Explain the financial crisis in 10 sentences or less.

The banks robbed us.

[thenodrog]

The banks robbed us.

Are you sure? Jimmk2 prefers to blame the Tories.

[92er]

Philip-something for you to research.

I read in the Independent either yesterday or the day before that the Glazers had bought some of the PIKs in the last couple of years or so when they were comparatively cheaply priced ans as a result had reduced their debt.

[Commondore]

The banks robbed us.

Ah. Jolly good.

[thenodrog]

Just read this elsewhere ......

"Hot Breaking News

20/10/10 -- Rooney to sign for Citeh in the January transfer window after they offer him 200 grans a week......

......No it's not a typo either."

[roversmum]

... I can think of a good riposte for that statement, better not though

[Exiled in Toronto]

The failure of the Glazers to deal with the PIK loans as soon as they had the chance is inexplicable other than by saying their other businesses are in such dire straits they couldn't dare cut an existing line of credit, no matter how bad it was.

PiK's being repaid this week, and not from United's vast cash reserves.

I wonder what the Glazier's body language is like right now

[Billy Castell]

Probably walking with a wide stance.

Its suggested that fresh loans are being used to pay the PIK loans. I was always told that using loans to pay loans is a bad idea.

[92er]

Probably walking with a wide stance.

Its suggested that fresh loans are being used to pay the PIK loans. I was always told that using loans to pay loans is a bad idea.

BBC Breakfast North West said they were paying them from their own resources.

Maybe the story will continue to run.

[thenodrog]

So Tevez wants to leave City despite being on 285k pk! Apparently he's unhappy cos no one speaks spanish to him. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I'd say thats fine just so long as he buys whatever is left of his contract out. If City sacked him he'd expect them to do the same. Footballers shouldn't be subject to employment law anymore it should be business law. He's renaged on a valid contract that he completely agreed to when he signed so he should pay the full financial penalty for not completing it. I do hope the Arabs will see this through to it's righful conclusion cos they are about the only ones that have the wherewithall to do so.

Says on't tinternet that he'll retire rather than be forced to play for City. I wonder how that would rest with Joorbaichim? I think he'd be likely to put out a contract on him if he did.

[philipl]

Interesting article by David Conn on the contrast between the ownership of City and the ownership of United http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/01/manchester-city-manchester-united-glazers?CMP=twt_gu

[AllRoverAsia]

The Abu Dhabi "project," while sending City fans ecstatic on Monday, is, of course, widely disdained in football as the buying of success, contrary to the gradual building of a team from a club's own resources which Ferguson, for all United's money, has previously achieved prodigiously.

And people belive that? ######.

[Paul]

On Monday night watching City and Utd I found myself reflecting on it being 17 years since our title win.

Scholes was a great player then and I thought he was by far and away Utd's best player on Monday. Says a lot for RFW he's maintained a challenge with a relatively poor team by their standards.

[DE.]

Aye, there's no way that United team should be challenging for a title. There's a lot of crap there and two players who should be long retired.

Credit has to go to Fergie for moulding that team into title challengers, but the rest of the league should also be ashamed. There's no way you can call the Premier League "the best league in the world" with City and United, two distinctly average teams who were well and truly shown up by numerous European teams, the only two realistically challenging for the title. Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs in particular should ask serious questions of themselves. I would include Liverpool but other than 09 when was the last time they were a title threat?

Any team relegated from this league must also be truly awful.

[K-Hod]

I've said it a lot recently, but man for man that Manure team is the worst I've seen in my life (I'm soon to be 28). Central midfield is appalling for a team at the top, think they've missed Vidic and Fletcher massively, they've no consistent RB, just poor.

[Rovermatt]

It shows how good Ferguson is that he can still be competitive with relatively limited tools. I console myself constantly that he'll not be around forever.