[Archived] End Of Manc Dominance?

[tcj_jones]

I agree with you but currently having discussion with manure supporting mate, and he said Rooney has had his best season in 5 seasons...? Dont believe that for a second and he is gone off looking for opta stats to prove it.

But if you look at their stats for the season, rooney is nowhere near it. And stats only mean so much too

Yeah, I've seen a lot of United this season in both the Premier League and the Champions League and Rooney hasn't been nearly as good as in previous seasons, Ronaldo too.

Personally, I feel that Fergie should just stick to last season's 4-4-2 with Ronaldo back on the wing and Rooney back up front alongside either Tevez or Berbatov.

[Mc Love]

true story tcj, but you know yourself, you cant talk to a united fan...you can but they will only feed you with their own stupid dribble

[deftangel]

Berbatov would probably have got a better deal at Citeh but still wound up at Old Trafford. I'd love for this Manc demise to have even a smidgen of probability but sadly it just doesn't seem to.

If they sell Ronaldo that'll be a large part of debt gone and they seem to be raking the cash in as it is.

[Ronin]

Can see (hopefully) their dominance start to crumble when RFW leaves. But then, looking at Chelsea for example, they've have a few managers inherit roughly the same team, so that could be the same case when RFW decides to call it a day and they get someone else in. But the pressure to repeat Fergie's achievements will be huge! Wonder who'd be up for that?!

[philipl]

Berbatov would probably have got a better deal at Citeh but still wound up at Old Trafford. I'd love for this Manc demise to have even a smidgen of probability but sadly it just doesn't seem to.

If they sell Ronaldo that'll be a large part of debt gone and they seem to be raking the cash in as it is.

No it won't flogging Ronaldo would probably settle a year's interest bill and do nothing to the principal sum owed.

I think there was behind the scenes influence on 31 August last year- the PL had managed to get City out of heaps of trouble with UEFA and FIFA over not paying international transfer fees from the Thaksin era and Spurs were hellbent on a very solid case of tapping up over Berbatov. It all ended so neatly when City got Robinho....

As for Tevez, Joorabchian is involved and that means £££££ decides the matter.

[DE.]

As for Tevez, Joorabchian is involved and that means £££££ decides the matter.

Yep. Tevez will go to whoever offers Joorabchian the best deal, simple as that.

[T4E]

You've been predicting the demise of United ever since the Glazers moved in, since when the club has continued to dominate the Prem and won the European Cup.

No doubt you will be right - one day.

As they say Jim, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which means, since the Glazers bought United, that stopped clock has been around 2920 times more reliable than Philip.

[philipl]

The clock that ticks is

£80m interest charges per year

>£600m debt growing year by year

April 2010 Hedge Fund deadline

oh and incidentally there is a football club somwhere under all that lot.....

[Eddie]

If they're screwed, I dread to think what boat we are all in.

[Billy Castell]

We'll be OK as our stinginess has kept any debts at reasonable levels. Man Utd have been like the Roman Empire, and need to continue to expand and plunder (i.e. constantly improving trophy hauls and profits) or else the set-up will collapse.

1 or 2 awful seasons and they're in the poo.

[philipl]

Poor old Owen Hargreaves will not be back before 2010.

[JAL]

If Ronaldo goes along with Tevez this summer then you could be right philipl.

Lets face it, they didnt play particularly well in the Carling cup final, the FA Cup semi final, and the champions league final. Ok your allowed one bad game but this is several so the evidence is there to suggest the break up of ManU's dominance. Praise the lord for the Glazers a horrendous example of what not to do to a football club.

Scudamore deserves a crumbling Old Trafford, only thing is, you can see there being many a billionare queing to snap up Man U.

[DE.]

Ronaldo has won many games for Utd single-handedly with amazing strikes or assists.... his loss would be an extremely difficult gap in the side to fill, regardless of how much money is received for him. He wasn't at his best in the CL final, but when he is.... he's unbelievable. I wouldn't class Tevez in the same category, however, I think losing both of them would be a massive blow for Utd. Can't see them letting both go, but one will, likely Tevez.

[philipl]

One interesting by-product of Real Madrid returning to Gallictico buying has been the analysis of how they have £200m available for transfers.

Their TV rights deal is worth £70m more than Man U's and they do not have £80m a year in interest to find.

At £150m a year, the gap between Real Madrid and the Mancs is going to get enormous very quickly. The Mancs interest charges now amount to roughly £300m which has NOT been spent on the football team in the last four years; imagine what Ferguson would have done with that extra spending money....

There are two key points here-

as things stand, Glazers' ownership now mean the Mancs are inevitably dropping to the second level of super clubs

the financial gap between Real Madrid and the Mancs is now comfortably bigger than the gap between the Mancs and Rovers.

[cletus]

Football will always have it`s phases.....

Liverpool dominated the late 70s & 80s.

United have dominated the 90s & naughties.

Leeds had a great team in the 60s & early 70s.

Forest, Derby, Spurs etc have all had their time in the spotlight.

Our very own Blackburn Rovers had a great spell in the 90s. I think we`d have won a few more things had Ferguson not been around (just bad timing for us)

Fergy will retire, United will not be as powerful. The pressure will build again for them (remember their 28yrs without the league) The demand on United`s next managers will be HUGE!!!......& they will falter.

....& another club will rise to the top. Who will it be? City? Chelsea? Liverpool again?

Don`t forget, there`s another massive massive massive club just come back in to the spotlight.....& they`ve got a £60m windfall burning a hole in their pockets! & remember......the premier league NEED them!

[Bazzanotsogreat]

This thread is noting more than PhilipL trying to justify his declaration that “United were finished” when the Glazers took over. 5-6 major trophies on you are still wrong. Much the same as his declaration that Rovers ability to “go big” in the transfer market. & the belief that Rovers could sign Xabi Alonso.

Barcelona outclassed United as I fully expected them to, this season they have been the best team in season. & possess three of the top 5 players in the world .

United will be challenging for the Champs league next season- along with the rest of the big 4. Nevertheless ,I fully believe that continental Europe’s super clubs will catch-up the big 4in terms of transfer outlay & class of players.

United, have not yet bid for Tevez as they will not pay 32 million for a player who is not a guaranteed starter. Fergie will probably go out and spend 30 million on a “world-class” CM or goalkeeper.

Again this thread is nothing more than an attempt to “tap into” the peoples dislike of United. I dislike United as much as the next man & was willing Barca on during the Champions league final- yet talk of United’s demise is naïve beyond belief.

[tony gale's mic]

If Ronaldo goes along with Tevez this summer then you could be right philipl.

Lets face it, they didnt play particularly well in the Carling cup final, the FA Cup semi final, and the champions league final. Ok your allowed one bad game but this is several so the evidence is there to suggest the break up of ManU's dominance. Praise the lord for the Glazers a horrendous example of what not to do to a football club.

Scudamore deserves a crumbling Old Trafford, only thing is, you can see there being many a billionare queing to snap up Man U.

How many times over the last 15 years or so have people said Man U's dominance is about to crumble? Everything from the 3-0 loss at Villa in '96 (you can't win anything with kids, apparently), to the Abramovich takeover, to the Arsenal unbeaten season and various things in between and since. Fact is they've had another phenomenal season this season and it's been going on for almost two decades now.

The crucial point for United will be when Ferguson leaves.

[Balwer]

I watched a Sky Sports News thing the other day where a couple of commentators or coaches or something (can't remember, wasn't paying too much attention) went through the United Squad and alternated picking an XI.

Both teams would make top 4 on their own. The depth in that squad is unbelievable. The defence is world class, as is the midfield, the only slight concern is their lack of strikers. Macheda is currently their fourth best, and he'll be a player in time but he's not there yet. Their second/third striker Tevez may be going, and the second/third striker Berbatov goes missing a lot and often looks uninterested.

For me I think the loss of Tevez would be more important than the loss of Ronaldo as there's less depth there. If they get two top strikers (RSC?) then they will win again next year.

[Fife Rover]

I think Utd will be in far more trouble if they sell Ronaldo. Tevez is good, but they can do without him, and he's not worth 32M. Ronaldo, on the other hand, is integral to their team and replacing him would be very difficult. Should they lose Tevez they still have Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Wellbeck, Macheda... plus another likely to arrive in the summer. Who replaces Ronaldo and gives anywhere near the same level of consistant match-winning performance?

MGP?

[joey_big_nose]

I watched a Sky Sports News thing the other day where a couple of commentators or coaches or something (can't remember, wasn't paying too much attention) went through the United Squad and alternated picking an XI.

Both teams would make top 4 on their own. The depth in that squad is unbelievable. The defence is world class, as is the midfield, the only slight concern is their lack of strikers. Macheda is currently their fourth best, and he'll be a player in time but he's not there yet. Their second/third striker Tevez may be going, and the second/third striker Berbatov goes missing a lot and often looks uninterested.

For me I think the loss of Tevez would be more important than the loss of Ronaldo as there's less depth there. If they get two top strikers (RSC?) then they will win again next year.

Really? It seems to me Utd don't have very good defensive options after Fedinand, Evra and Vidic? The kids look unconvincing to me and Neville looks on his last legs.

Central midfield also looks weak - Scholes is ageing, Hargreaves is permanently injured, and none of their other players there are really "world class" although Anderson, Carrick and Fletcher clearly have talent. Where I thought United have the best options are in their strikers and wingers (who as far as Ferguson s concerned are completely interchangeble!)? 4 world class players and very able deputies in Park, Giggs, Macheda and Nani.

[American]

Scudamore deserves a crumbling Old Trafford, only thing is, you can see there being many a billionare queing to snap up Man U.

And that is exactly what people are missing. If the debts do catch up, they will be able to sell in a heartbeat.

Philip - many a club has shown what happens when you go out and buy too many players. Ferguson has had 2-3 targets a summer and gotten them. It wouldn't matter how much more they had to spend, because it wouldn't necessarily lead to a better team. They haven't done too poorly without the money - try to think of a more successful 2-3 year period for any Premier League club, much less any other European club in the past 10-15 years.

[leftfooter]

The dominant position of English football ultimately relies on the superiority of Anglo-Saxon market-oriented business model, over that of close-knit family firms on the Continent or the other alternatives.

Manchester United and Liverpool are currently the two most successful English clubs in England and European competition. Placed in context, United and Liverpool's respective successes represent the victory of American capitalism over Russian oligarchic wealth and inherited petro-dollar nepotism. Yet their owners are reviled by fans, who brandish anti-American placards and hold impromptu marches, like one would witness in some tinpot South American dictatorship or in dusty Iranian provincial cities. Such xenophobia is stoked by left-leaning Guardian journalists who instinctively distrust both 'the Americans' and capitalists.

Whilst at Liverpool and United a clear line is drawn between business and personal, the likes of Man City, Chelsea and now Portsmouth are at the mercy of the personal whims and capriciousness of their absolutist owners. Released from this entirely personal bind, clubs based on the American model can implement long-term planning and execute a rational business strategy.

Whereas the American capitalist model promotes enlightened concepts such as transparency, divisions of responsibility, accountability, the alternatives reflect a hive of Byzantine intrigue and Machiavellian power which lends itself to instability and as a consequence fosters uncertainty. Whilst some American companies fit the latter paradigm, they tend to be exceptions to the rule and will ultimately fall by the wayside.

Those fans currently clamouring for their clubs to be bought by Russian Kleptocrats or Middle Eastern 'royalty' with dubious connections and unsavoury human rights practices should realise the Faustian pact they are seeking. To achieve long-term success, clubs will have to either mature into the American model or collapse under the weight of their own flaws and contradictions. Kremlin stooges or shady princes generally make unreliable business partners.

[tony gale's mic]

The dominant position of English football ultimately relies on the superiority of Anglo-Saxon market-oriented business model, over that of close-knit family firms on the Continent or the other alternatives.

Manchester United and Liverpool are currently the two most successful English clubs in England and European competition. Placed in context, United and Liverpool's respective successes represent the victory of American capitalism over Russian oligarchic wealth and inherited petro-dollar nepotism. Yet their owners are reviled by fans, who brandish anti-American placards and hold impromptu marches, like one would witness in some tinpot South American dictatorship or in dusty Iranian provincial cities. Such xenophobia is stoked by left-leaning Guardian journalists who instinctively distrust both 'the Americans' and capitalists.

Whilst at Liverpool and United a clear line is drawn between business and personal, the likes of Man City, Chelsea and now Portsmouth are at the mercy of the personal whims and capriciousness of their absolutist owners. Released from this entirely personal bind, clubs based on the American model can implement long-term planning and execute a rational business strategy.

Whereas the American capitalist model promotes enlightened concepts such as transparency, divisions of responsibility, accountability, the alternatives reflect a hive of Byzantine intrigue and Machiavellian power which lends itself to instability and as a consequence fosters uncertainty. Whilst some American companies fit the latter paradigm, they tend to be exceptions to the rule and will ultimately fall by the wayside.

Those fans currently clamouring for their clubs to be bought by Russian Kleptocrats or Middle Eastern 'royalty' with dubious connections and unsavoury human rights practices should realise the Faustian pact they are seeking. To achieve long-term success, clubs will have to either mature into the American model or collapse under the weight of their own flaws and contradictions. Kremlin stooges or shady princes generally make unreliable business partners.

My god you really do manage to bring your far right @#/? into the most irrelevant of threads. You're mentally ill.

[jim mk2]

The dominant position of English football ultimately relies on the superiority of Anglo-Saxon market-oriented business model, over that of close-knit family firms on the Continent or the other alternatives.

Manchester United and Liverpool are currently the two most successful English clubs in England and European competition. Placed in context, United and Liverpool's respective successes represent the victory of American capitalism over Russian oligarchic wealth and inherited petro-dollar nepotism. Yet their owners are reviled by fans, who brandish anti-American placards and hold impromptu marches, like one would witness in some tinpot South American dictatorship or in dusty Iranian provincial cities. Such xenophobia is stoked by left-leaning Guardian journalists who instinctively distrust both 'the Americans' and capitalists.

Whilst at Liverpool and United a clear line is drawn between business and personal, the likes of Man City, Chelsea and now Portsmouth are at the mercy of the personal whims and capriciousness of their absolutist owners. Released from this entirely personal bind, clubs based on the American model can implement long-term planning and execute a rational business strategy.

Whereas the American capitalist model promotes enlightened concepts such as transparency, divisions of responsibility, accountability, the alternatives reflect a hive of Byzantine intrigue and Machiavellian power which lends itself to instability and as a consequence fosters uncertainty. Whilst some American companies fit the latter paradigm, they tend to be exceptions to the rule and will ultimately fall by the wayside.

Those fans currently clamouring for their clubs to be bought by Russian Kleptocrats or Middle Eastern 'royalty' with dubious connections and unsavoury human rights practices should realise the Faustian pact they are seeking. To achieve long-term success, clubs will have to either mature into the American model or collapse under the weight of their own flaws and contradictions. Kremlin stooges or shady princes generally make unreliable business partners.

This a messageboard for football fans, not a medium for pseudo-intellectual gobbledegook.

[Blue n White Rover]

The dominant position of English football ultimately relies on the superiority of Anglo-Saxon market-oriented business model, over that of close-knit family firms on the Continent or the other alternatives.

Manchester United and Liverpool are currently the two most successful English clubs in England and European competition. Placed in context, United and Liverpool's respective successes represent the victory of American capitalism over Russian oligarchic wealth and inherited petro-dollar nepotism. Yet their owners are reviled by fans, who brandish anti-American placards and hold impromptu marches, like one would witness in some tinpot South American dictatorship or in dusty Iranian provincial cities. Such xenophobia is stoked by left-leaning Guardian journalists who instinctively distrust both 'the Americans' and capitalists.

Whilst at Liverpool and United a clear line is drawn between business and personal, the likes of Man City, Chelsea and now Portsmouth are at the mercy of the personal whims and capriciousness of their absolutist owners. Released from this entirely personal bind, clubs based on the American model can implement long-term planning and execute a rational business strategy.

Whereas the American capitalist model promotes enlightened concepts such as transparency, divisions of responsibility, accountability, the alternatives reflect a hive of Byzantine intrigue and Machiavellian power which lends itself to instability and as a consequence fosters uncertainty. Whilst some American companies fit the latter paradigm, they tend to be exceptions to the rule and will ultimately fall by the wayside.

Those fans currently clamouring for their clubs to be bought by Russian Kleptocrats or Middle Eastern 'royalty' with dubious connections and unsavoury human rights practices should realise the Faustian pact they are seeking. To achieve long-term success, clubs will have to either mature into the American model or collapse under the weight of their own flaws and contradictions. Kremlin stooges or shady princes generally make unreliable business partners.

So let's call back that American geezer Dan Williams, and we'll be as successful as Liverpool and United?