[Archived] End Of Manc Dominance?

[The Caveman]

Bang on the money, and that is precisely the intention of the prats who've done the same to Liverpool.

United's best bet is to sell the club to some rich billionaire benefactor - and it will probably happen. The question is when, not if, because the Glazers are only interested in making a profit.

The question is if the Glazers manage to flog the club for profit before it all goes tits up because it will do when they can't service the debt even during times of massive success both on and off the pitch. One can only hope to get a decent owner in but in times where football clubs seems the favourite passtime of russian oligarcs and mad arabian sheikhs I'm not to optimistic about the future on the owner side.

[philipl]

The debt is massively impacting on the sporting side now.

When you think about it, £250m has gone on debt servicing since the Glazers arrived- imagine if that £250m had gone on the playing side. Well you don't need much imagination as you can only sit back and watch Real Madrid disappear away from you and think that could have been you buying the world's greatest players and not them:

Real Madrid +Kaka, +Ronaldo, +Bezzima

Man U -Ronaldo, -Tevez, +Valencia, +Owen

..and that sort of buying gap between Man U and Real Madrid will be repeated next summer and the the summer afterwards and...

In fact because of the Glazers, there is a bigger financial gap between the Spanish giants and Man U than there is between Man U and Blackburn Rovers now.

My guess is that Chelsea are overtaking Man U right now, Arsenal's kids are going to come of age eventually and whilst Liverpool have problems with their own Americans, at least Gillett liquidated £333m of assets when push came to shove which somehow I doubt the Glazers would do for the Mancs. And there is that lot at Middle Eastlands.

Man U couldn't put an injury-ravaged Everton away in the FA Cup semi-final and were soundly thrashed by both Liverpool and Barcelona. Ferguson's gravity defying act with all the Glazer dead weight round him has got to come to an end sometime.

[Ritchie]

The question is if the Glazers manage to flog the club for profit before it all goes tits up because it will do when they can't service the debt even during times of massive success both on and off the pitch. One can only hope to get a decent owner in but in times where football clubs seems the favourite passtime of russian oligarcs and mad arabian sheikhs I'm not to optimistic about the future on the owner side.

If City and Chelsea can attract benefactors, United certainly can... irrespective of the higher price.

But it's a very sad state of affairs that a wealthy foreigner with no regard for the heritage and history of English football is seen as a better alternative than the parasitic Glazer family.

In any case, United could be signing Aguero, so that's something to be happy about.

Man U couldn't put an injury-ravaged Everton away in the FA Cup semi-final and were soundly thrashed by both Liverpool and Barcelona. Ferguson's gravity defying act with all the Glazer dead weight round him has got to come to an end sometime.

United had a weakened side out themselves that day. And they won the league. And the League Cup.

Just have the balls to say you don't like Man United... you'll feel better for it.

[The Caveman]

Well, United have been able to shell out if they want a player both before and after the Glazers came along even this summer they were willing to fork up £25,5 million for Tevez (God knows why). So I think the sporting side have been affected minimally by the debt so far. You're putting forth a very simplistic view on the matter. And the games agains Liverpool and Barcelona prove exactly nothing.

What the debt so far have done is create a massive shadow hanging over the club for when the good times come to a halt. In a dream world where United had not spent hundreds of millions on debt payments the last three years there would probably be a stadium expansion planned for the immediate future, and a transfer warchest of considerable size. It would, however, not mean that we would be competing with Real Madrid for players in the region of £50 million plus. That is foolish and to do that with borrowed money like Real Madrid is doing is madness.

I may be biased for United but you seem massively biased against because you put forward the worst case scenario as a certainty which it is not. The loss to Liverpool at home, painful as it was, meant just as much in the grand scheme of things as the loss against Fulham the week after: (Please don't use that word again) all. I didn't see City cruising into top spot this year after doing the double on us in 07/08. You're putting to much emphasis on single matches. United had an appaling record against the top four this season but you should be thankful of that because if we'd had the same record in those games as the year before it would have been over in February. These things change and United's losses against Liverpool had just as little to do with the debt as our wins the year before.

EDIT: Regarding the Fa Cup semi against Evertons "weakened" side. Here are the line-ups for the game, so you can judge who had the weakened team on the day.

UNITED:

* Ben Foster,

* Rio Ferdinand,

* Da Silva Rafael,

* Da Silva Fabio (Patrice Evra, 63),

* Nemanja Vidic,

* Luis de Abreu Anderson,

* Darron Gibson,

* Ji-Sung Park (Paul Scholes, 67),

* Carlos Tevez,

* Federico Macheda (Dimitar Berbatov, 91),

* Danny Welbeck

EVERTON:

* Tim Howard,

* Phil Neville,

* Phil Jagielka,

* Tony Hibbert,

* Joleon Lescott,

* Leighton Baines,

* Marouane Fellaini (James Vaughan, 102),

* Tim Cahill,

* Steven Pienaar,

* Leon Osman,

* Louis Saha (Jack Rodwell, 70)

[Sandman]

If City and Chelsea can attract benefactors, United certainly can... irrespective of the higher price.

But it's a very sad state of affairs that a wealthy foreigner with no regard for the heritage and history of English football is seen as a better alternative than the parasitic Glazer family.

In any case, United could be signing Aguero, so that's something to be happy about.

United had a weakened side out themselves that day. And they won the league. And the League Cup.

Just have the balls to say you don't like Man United... you'll feel better for it.

It's pathetic really isn't it, a grown man on a Rovers forum letting pure hatred cloud his judgment . It's not as if United are even Rovers rivals. I doubt United supporters spend a moment thinking about Rovers financial position. A sad state of affairs.

[American]

Caveman, he said United was going to drop like a stone right after the Glazers bought them and is using this "imagine how much better they COULD be" argument to try to make himself sound right, despite the last 3 seasons of success.

Remember, Real tried the whole Galacticos thing a while back - why does everyone think it's going to be more successful this time around?

It will be hard to replace Ronaldo's goals, but we'll see what the next 2 months brings in the transfer market. I'm with you in thinking that Tevez is not worth 25.5 million, but will be interested to see who they do end up with instead.

[The Caveman]

Caveman, he said United was going to drop like a stone right after the Glazers bought them and is using this "imagine how much better they COULD be" argument to try to make himself sound right, despite the last 3 seasons of success.

Remember, Real tried the whole Galacticos thing a while back - why does everyone think it's going to be more successful this time around?

It will be hard to replace Ronaldo's goals, but we'll see what the next 2 months brings in the transfer market. I'm with you in thinking that Tevez is not worth 25.5 million, but will be interested to see who they do end up with instead.

Well, as I've recently joined I don't know the poster in question but he seems a bit biased but then again so am I even though I strive to be realistic bordering on pessimistic. The Tevez I've seen of late I wouldn't have taken on a free. For all Ronaldo's shenanigans he's leaving the club on better terms than Tevez is.

[philipl]

True I hate Man U and sooner or later the Glazers are going to do for them... nice.

[Ritchie]

It's pathetic really isn't it, a grown man on a Rovers forum letting pure hatred cloud his judgment . It's not as if United are even Rovers rivals. I doubt United supporters spend a moment thinking about Rovers financial position. A sad state of affairs.

Agreed mate... jealousy is a terrible thing, the United fans I know couldn't give a damn about Blackburn Rovers FC.

People don't like winners, I suppose.

True I hate Man U and sooner or later the Glazers are going to do for them... nice.

How old are you... 15?

[philipl]

You're on thin ground richie.

A manc loving dingle?

Even Caveman is admitting that Man U are effectively screwed under the Glazers and is hoping for someone to chuck £1bn plus in their direction.

[The Caveman]

You're on thin ground richie.

A manc loving dingle?

Even Caveman is admitting that Man U are effectively screwed under the Glazers and is hoping for someone to chuck £1bn plus in their direction.

There's a difference in admitting a club, even if it is your own, is in difficulties and actively hoping for their demise. One is a realistic evaluation of the situation, the other is rather classless.

[Ritchie]

You're on thin ground richie.

A manc loving dingle?

Even Caveman is admitting that Man U are effectively screwed under the Glazers and is hoping for someone to chuck £1bn plus in their direction.

And what part of my acknowledgement that the financial situation being 'bloody morbid' did you not understand? You taking drugs or something?

[Mattyblue]

True I hate Man U and sooner or later the Glazers are going to do for them... nice.

Agreed Phil, so whats wrong with taking a strong dislike to United? And why the hell would United and their arrogant fans give a monkeys about Rovers?

Everytime I walk down a non-Manchester street and see red shirt after red shirt, I pity what these mega clubs have done and continue to do to the English game.

Ritchie you talk about the Glazers ruining the 'heritage' of English football, sorry heritage went out the window years ago as clubs everywhere get poorer and poorer at the expense of a self interested cartel, with sheep across the country abandoning their local club in favour of a Ronaldo 7 shirt.

Anything that reduces the likes of United's spending power the better.

[American]

He does advocate their legalisation.....

[philipl]

Agreed mate... jealousy is a terrible thing, the United fans I know couldn't give a damn about Blackburn Rovers FC.

People don't like winners, I suppose.

How old are you... 15?

I really enjoyed the 1994/5 season.

[Ritchie]

Agreed Phil, so whats wrong with taking a strong dislike to United? And why the hell would United and their arrogant fans give a monkeys about Rovers?

Everytime I walk down a non-Manchester street and see red shirt after red shirt, I pity what these mega clubs have done and continue to do to the English game.

Ritchie you talk about the Glazers ruining the 'heritage' of English football, sorry heritage went out the window years ago as clubs everywhere get poorer and poorer at the expense of a self interested cartel, with sheep across the country abandoning their local club in favour of a Ronaldo 7 shirt.

Anything that reduces the likes of United's spending power the better.

Eh?

Manchester United and Liverpool have been popular for decades. Far more popular than Rovers.

I find the hatred of Manchester United rather sad. It's bloody pathetic really.

And just for the record, this board has members from across the world who don't support their local clubs. Are they to be ridiculed for supporting Rovers instead of their local club? I don't think so.

Chill out, lads.

[Mattyblue]

Eh?

Manchester United and Liverpool have been popular for decades. Far more popular than Rovers.

I find the hatred of Manchester United rather sad. It's bloody pathetic really.

And just for the record, this board has members from across the world who don't support their local clubs. Are they to be ridiculed for supporting Rovers instead of their local club? I don't think so.

Chill out, lads.

United more popular than Rovers shock! Well I'd never have guessed that!! Youre an obvious troll, but I'll carry on regardless.

ALL clubs have fans from everywhere, thats the beauty of football. I don't give a monkeys that some guy from Singapore supports United, good for him.

I am talking about the domestic game, the domination that those clubs have over the game is unhealthy, you cannot seriously state otherwise? And after all those years that we have mocked the Old Firm strangehold.

[Ritchie]

United more popular than Rovers shock! Well I'd never have guessed that!! Youre an obvious troll, but I'll carry on regardless.

ALL clubs have fans from everywhere, thats the beauty of football. I don't give a monkeys that some guy from Singapore supports United, good for him.

I am talking about the domestic game, the domination that those clubs have over the game is unhealthy, you cannot seriously state otherwise? And after all those years that we have mocked the Old Firm strangehold.

Were you moaning when Jack was funding the club in the 90's?

[Ritchie]

I really enjoyed the 1994/5 season.

It was an exciting season. 2000-2001 was rather good too.

[Al]

It was an exciting season. 2000-2001 was rather good too.

A Newbie trying to make a name for yourself or just a WUM.

Whatever you are you are not doing yourself any favours antagonising the established members.

[Ritchie]

A Newbie trying to make a name for yourself or just a WUM.

Whatever you are you are not doing yourself any favours antagonising the established members.

Have you ever applied to appear on the Generation Game with philipl?

[philipl]

The funny thing is we are all agreeing that Man U are massively handicapped.

Man U have a wall of debt and interest payments which means they are as unlikely to remain competitive with Real Madrid now as Rovers were to remain competitive with Man U when Jack switched the tap off in 1995.

Rovers were in the second division five years after winning the title- I cannot see Man U falling that far but fall they almost certainly will.

And I don't see Real Madrid's proposal for permanent membership of the Champions League for 18 clubs going anywhere either.

[Steve Moss]

And just for the record, this board has members from across the world who don't support their local clubs. Are they to be ridiculed for supporting Rovers instead of their local club? I don't think so.

I wish I had a local club to support. As it is, I support the Rovers and coach/ref at the AYSO level. But if I had a local club to support, I'd still cheer the Rovers on as my hypothetical local club would not be competing against the Rovers.

[thenodrog]

Eh?

Manchester United and Liverpool have been popular for decades. Far more popular than Rovers.

I find the hatred of Manchester United rather sad. It's bloody pathetic really.

You should be well used to it. The biter bit is that whilst MU are the best supported club in the country.......... they are also the most hated. How does that situation sit with your statement about popularity? I'm not really sure that you lot can manage to grasp that fact through being blinded by the overwhelming media propoganda that your club illicets. The really strange thing to me is why the media have not grasped that situation and continue to fawn and brown nose the big clubs. I'm sure there are very real commercial gains to be had by offering the alternative but numerically greater point of view on football matters.

Moving on...... Also it appears to me that the 'richest' clubs in the land are also the poorest. All the wealth and income has been used to fund ever increasing ridiculous levels of borrowing. Alright in times of plenty but desperately dangerous when fortunes and commercial reallity go into a nosedive. If a bank was to call in your debt you will fold and cease to exist simple as that. imo The ice is getting thinner under the likes of MU, Lpool and Chelsea. The dictionary definitions of the terms benefactors and investors in football may have to be corrected very soon to mean something entirely different.

[Rovermatt]

I'm not jealous of United in any way, shape or form. I simply despise them.