[Archived] Other Pl Happenings 2009/10

[Big Fat Sam]

Just been reading this:

who next at Le Arse?

Can't believe anyone would suggest our old boy Nigel.

[philipl]

Way harsh on Stead. He definitely did a job to keep us up, including the winner against United.

Completely agree with you re Stead.

One positive note is that I don't think we will see a Rover in the top 20 as they have already got our horrors in that list.

Just as well Fowler had an illustrious career before he came to us though....

[Craigman]

What about Per Pedersen ?

[philipl]

Smart move by the Saudi Prince

Given Liverpool/Gillett had gone public about him, he's told them to sort their relationship and debts out.

Two tier Premier League with Rangers and Celtic admitted back on the agenda

I think Rovers had better be thinking of coming 15th at a bear minimum!

[den]

Two tier Premier League with Rangers and Celtic admitted back on the agenda

I think Rovers had better be thinking of coming 15th at a bear minimum!

and the clue is in the last sentence. "TV rights". and i reckon the PL are more than prepared to give them what they want, no matter what cost to the poorer English clubs.

[Eddie]

This will never happen, but if Celtic and Rangers are coming in then why not turn the two league premier league into a two conference league with a play-off between the best 8 to decide the champion, the semi-finalists going into the champions league and the remaining four taking the Europa league spots? Would make it more interesting for me, it would give the 8-12 teams in this league a realistic chance of actually winning the league.

[gumboots]

and the clue is in the last sentence. "TV rights". and i reckon the PL are more than prepared to give them what they want, no matter what cost to the poorer English clubs.

Either of those and i might just have to decide that premier league football is just not worth watching any more and take myself to watch my local team clitheroe every week instead.

Why should we admit Celtic and rangers to our league other than for the cash cows they might be? why should they get a bye into the premier legue when other large and well supported clubs like Leeds are having to work their way back up slowly and steadily? Why should teams that have more money automatically be allowed into the league that gives them the rights to even more money when clubs that are sensibly and prudently run struggle because they have to stay within financial constraints? It already stinks and will stink even more if these changes are implemented.

[tcj_jones]

If Rangers or Celtic want to to join English football, then fine. But they'll have to start from the very bottom (is that the Ryman league?).

[den]

If Rangers or Celtic want to to join English football, then fine. But they'll have to start from the very bottom (is that the Ryman league?).

There's nothing "fine" about it tcj. They are Scottish clubs and should play in the Scottish football league. It could well see the end of my football following if they were ever to be admitted into the PL. Make no mistake, they will make it to the Prem, no matter where they start off, and it will ultimately be to the cost of BRFC.

[T4E]

There's nothing "fine" about it tcj. They are Scottish clubs and should play in the Scottish football league. It could well see the end of my football following if they were ever to be admitted into the PL. Make no mistake, they will make it to the Prem, no matter where they start off, and it will ultimately be to the cost of BRFC.

Like Wrexham, Cardiff and Swansea?

[gumboots]

Like Wrexham, Cardiff and Swansea?

Different situation when they were allowed to join the english league. Scotland has always had its own league of a suitable quality. Their problem is that now they have got jealous of the amount of money sloshing about in the English league and think the only way to make money is to join it.

[joey_big_nose]

Two tier Premier League with Rangers and Celtic admitted back on the agenda

I think Rovers had better be thinking of coming 15th at a bear minimum!

It's wishful thinking. The way the Premierleague is setup with veto's and so forth there is no way for Celtic and Rangers to come in. No one is going to give up income or safety in the Premier League, especially when the wage budgets are so crippling that relegation can spell disaster.

I guess the strategy will be "We will set up a Prem 2" which will negotiate for rights in the same package as the top league so should get lots more money than Championship clubs currently get. Good idea. But for Rovers/Fulham/Wigan/Bolton etc etc to go for it they will want more safety and the same or only slightly less money.

This is going to be difficult becuase at the same time the big four will be asking for more money. So from somewhere they have to keep all the clubs happy, as well as the TV stations.

IMO the old firm's real hope is if the top English/Italian/Spanish etc. clubs opt out into some sort of European super league. A decent chance of this happening I think in the next twenty years or so I think. Could kill the game though and actually bring loads of money out of the sport generally (although the big clubs would make more individually).

[T4E]

Different situation when they were allowed to join the english league. Scotland has always had its own league of a suitable quality. Their problem is that now they have got jealous of the amount of money sloshing about in the English league and think the only way to make money is to join it.

Either that, or the Scottish league is hugely imbalanced and is therefore no longer of suitable quality.

Having said that, moving to the English league would be jumping from the frying pan in to the fire.

[den]

Like Wrexham, Cardiff and Swansea?

Why should three Welsh clubs who have been around the English league for - I dunno - a hundred years, have any bearing on my thoughts about the Scots coming only for the TV money?

What do you suggest, allow any club in from any country?

[T4E]

Why should three Welsh clubs who have been around the English league for - I dunno - a hundred years, have any bearing on my thoughts about the Scots coming only for the TV money?

What do you suggest, allow any club in from any country?

I wasn't suggesting anything, just pointing out that the perfect scenario that you were painting doesn't quite apply.

[den]

I wasn't suggesting anything, just pointing out that the perfect scenario that you were painting doesn't quite apply.

Painting a perfect scenario - was I? I didn't mean to.

There's no reason for them wanting to join the English PL, other than their own desire for their share of the TV money. A share that they aren't entitled to.

[philipl]

The problem the Old Firm has is they will take more than they will contribute so I suspect they will be left out even if Prem 2 happens somehow.

Will Celtic and Rangers increase PL TV subscriptions north or south of the border greater than it already is? Hardly- the feelings of gumboots and den would easily translate into cancelled subs by the look of things.

Will Celtic and Rangers increase PL TV rights moneys globally? Outside of a marginal increase in Ireland and certain parts of the USA, emphatically not.

What we do know is that policing and hooliganism problems will explode if those two are let in and that is a potentially huge real cost in police bills and opportunity cost in terms of fighting being broadcast to the world and losing PL subscribers. For Prem club chairmen from top to bottom they are a competitive threat unless they transfer both a CL and a Europa League place with them from the SPL to the PL and that is hardly likely to happen.

So why would the PL turkeys (the 20 Chairmen) vote for this particular Christmas when the Old Firm are getting weaker as every season goes by?

[den]

So why would the PL turkeys (the 20 Chairmen) vote for this particular Christmas when the Old Firm are getting weaker as every season goes by?

Money, power Philip? The English PL had only one goal from the outset, - to become the richest in the world. That's what UEFA/FIFA are afraid of and they are right to be afraid. Bringing these two clubs in, at the expense of say, Rovers and Bolton, would have massive attraction to the powers that be at the Pl headquarters. The more big clubs in the league, the more attraction to sponsors, TV companies, in fact any financial institution considering joining the merry go round.

[AggyBlue]

Like Wrexham, Cardiff and Swansea?

120 years ago the whole of Great Britain was referred to as England, thus three clubs from Wales at that time wouldn't have raised an eyebrow when joining the English League.

Not quite the same now though, each of the Home Nations seeking devolution.

I agree with Den, keep Celtic and Rangers out.

[joey_big_nose]

120 years ago the whole of Great Britain was referred to as England, thus three clubs from Wales at that time wouldn't have raised an eyebrow when joining the English League.

Not quite the same now though, each of the Home Nations seeking devolution.

I agree with Den, keep Celtic and Rangers out.

Don't know what history crack you've been smoking!

England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland have always been seperate nationalities in the eyes of the government - however the Welsh, due to being conquered as opposed to joining through a union (as was the case with Scotland) and a lot earlier to boot (13th century as opposed to 18th century), are subject to English Law (until 1997 devolution), English Currency and English Education all of which (at least symbolically in the case of currency) Scotland are not.

Scotland has never ever been referred to as England except by the ignorant and the Americans. Wales perhaps more frequently has been confused because it is so closely bound in with English institutions.

Ireland is a complicated kettle of fish which is not worth going into really at the moment.

ps. To actually answer you question directly this is why Welsh Teams play in the English footy system:

"

There wasn't a professional football league in Wales at the time each club was founded, so they decided to join the closest one that was in existence. They're not the only Welsh clubs to play in the English league system: Wrexham and Newport Country have played in the Football League, and Merthyr Tydfil have reached the highest level in the non-league pyramid. The only downside to their participation in the English League is that they're not allowed to compete in the Welsh Cup, and so cannot qualify for Europe via that route.

"

Taken from yahooanswers (not exactly Encyclopedia Britannica but I have no reason to doubt it)

Scotland of course established their own football league very early on in the early 1890s. Before this Celtic and Rangers had competed in the FA Cup before this point, and another Scottish team - Queens Park - actually won the FA Cup twice.

[AggyBlue]

Don't know what history crack you've been smoking!

Ha Ha, you're funny

[Steve Moss]

Scotland has never ever been referred to as England except by the ignorant and the Americans. Wales perhaps more frequently has been confused because it is so closely bound in with English institutions.

It is very unlikely for an American to mix up Scotland (or Ireland for that matter) with England. Most Americans are mutts of some sort (myself included) and we are very clear and vocal about our Scottish, Irish, etc. . . ancestry and do not confuse it with England at all.

You are correct about Wales, on the other hand.

[joey_big_nose]

It is very unlikely for an American to mix up Scotland (or Ireland for that matter) with England. Most Americans are mutts of some sort (myself included) and we are very clear and vocal about our Scottish, Irish, etc. . . ancestry and do not confuse it with England at all.

You are correct about Wales, on the other hand.

I've spent quite a lot of time in the States and the UK is referred to as 'England' over and over again, and confusion has reigned over whether the Scottish are a seperate country or not. I am English but went to a Scottish uni and I got asked quite a few times about visa arrangements or the inconvienience of air travel just to get to uni....

One of my favourite moments was during the winter olympics when there were a couple of Americans comenting on the curling which is represented by an all Scottish team. Somehow, implausibly, the commentators though Scotland was a seperate country so spent sometime trying to figure out why Scotland was competing for the United Kingdom.

Not saying all Americans by any stretch of the imagination, but it does seem to be a blind spot made all the stranger by such a large proportion fo the country being descended from Scots or English....

[brian_gallagher85]

I've spent quite a lot of time in the States and the UK is referred to as 'England' over and over again, and confusion has reigned over whether the Scottish are a seperate country or not. I am English but went to a Scottish uni and I got asked quite a few times about visa arrangements or the inconvienience of air travel just to get to uni....

Forget about them being able to tell the difference between England and Scotland, when they struggle with questions like

[joey_big_nose]

Forget about them being able to tell the difference between England and Scotland, when they struggle with questions like

I wouldn't get too carried away with it. I bet you could take a microphone around any city in England and ask them to name the President of France or the capital of the US or even the name of our own Chancellor of the Exchequer and a very decent proportion of people wouldn't have a bloody clue.