[Archived] Journos and sources

[1864roverite]

Never mind the football hot line Alan, is it true The Mirror are ceasing to back this current idiotic Labour party and are moving towards backing The Tories ?

That would then make it a duo with The sun edging back towards Tory rule !

[Ewood and I Would]

If you are going to make a point at least see it through.

Where does it say 'sign'?

No time for pains in the ass like yourself today thanks.

Sorry nicko, I don't think you've tracked the whole conversation. It was the person I was replying to that suggested you'd only report on players we'd actually signed. I was saying the opposite in fact.

Don't worry, I won't expect an apology.

Honestly, this witch-hunt on Nicko is pathetic.

So is use melodramatic terms like "witch hunt", as is trying to pick a fight that isn't their by totally ignoring the context of the debate and twisting it into something's it's not. At what point has nicko been insulted here?

There is no reason not to trust him. I, and many others, happen to think that the information he provides for no charge is what makes this forum exciting and brilliant, please don't ruin it.

Like "Hi Mack", I do not doubt the information, I'm just speculating about his reasons for keeping it quiet.

[Fylde Coast Fan]

Like "Hi Mack", I do not doubt the information, I'm just speculating about his reasons for keeping it quiet.

Because the deal is a long way from done and he's a surprising enough player that if nicko reported it now, bigger and richer clubs would move on him and we'd lose out. I'm sure there are people on here disinclined to believe anything he writes, but I can't think of an alternative reason for nicko not reporting it otherwise - "totally made up" doesn't seem to stop the Daily Express...

[Ewood and I Would]

Because the deal is a long way from done

That I think is probably true.

and he's a surprising enough player that if nicko reported it now, bigger and richer clubs would move on him and we'd lose out.

But why should nicko care about that. As I said his comments suggest he's a Dingle if anything so as much as appreciate anything that helps us get a player I just struggle to see why he'd be willing to risk a pay day for the benefit of a football team he doesn't support.

I'm sure there are people on here disinclined to believe anything he writes, but I can't think of an alternative reason for nicko not reporting it otherwise - "totally made up" doesn't seem to stop the Daily Express...

Once again I'm being "straw manned" and misrepresented. I do not doubt the information, I am simply questioning nicko's reasons for with holding the information. I suspect (and there's nothing wrong with this at all) that he's not sure how likely it is to happen and that it is at a very early stage. Thus it's not worth risking leaking it, not for Rovers benefit, but because if it doesn't happen it would make him look bad. Which I think is the protocol for most stories right? You get a sniff, check it out and when you're pretty confident you print it...

[Rover The Seas]

But why should nicko care about that. As I said his comments suggest he's a Dingle if anything so as much as appreciate anything that helps us get a player I just struggle to see why he'd be willing to risk a pay day for the benefit of a football team he doesn't support.

This is actually not that difficult to understand. The relationship between a journalist and an anonymous "source" is a difficult one, because the source wants to remain anonymous and the reporter wants to print the information.

SO, if you are asked by your source "please do not release this information yet, so bigger clubs won't come in after him," you oblige, so that your source will continue to remain a source in the future. In exchange, you have access to info you wouldn't otherwise, and you'll likely get first crack at the story even if it's only hours ahead of time instead of days or weeks. It has nothing to do with whether or not Nicko is a fan of the club or some other club, I think you're misunderstanding the issue.

I do not post often, I do not wish to become involved in this debate, and I'm not saying I have reason to believe the scenario I've outlined is the definitive truth. I'm just pointing out that a journalist who's asked not to reveal the information because it is of a sensitive nature may oblige for the simple reason that maintaining the source is of a greater value than reporting the information immediately.

[RevidgeBlue]

This is actually not that difficult to understand. The relationship between a journalist and an anonymous "source" is a difficult one, because the source wants to remain anonymous and the reporter wants to print the information.

SO, if you are asked by your source "please do not release this information yet, so bigger clubs won't come in after him," you oblige, so that your source will continue to remain a source in the future. In exchange, you have access to info you wouldn't otherwise, and you'll likely get first crack at the story even if it's only hours ahead of time instead of days or weeks. It has nothing to do with whether or not Nicko is a fan of the club or some other club, I think you're misunderstanding the issue.

I do not post often, I do not wish to become involved in this debate, and I'm not saying I have reason to believe the scenario I've outlined is the definitive truth. I'm just pointing out that a journalist who's asked not to reveal the information because it is of a sensitive nature may oblige for the simple reason that maintaining the source is of a greater value than reporting the information immediately.

That doesn't make any sense. Why would the "source" not want a bigger club coming in for their player?

And if the "source" was from the Rovers end and we wanted to keep it secret, why divulge it at all?

[Fylde Coast Fan]

But why should nicko care about that. As I said his comments suggest he's a Dingle if anything so as much as appreciate anything that helps us get a player I just struggle to see why he'd be willing to risk a pay day for the benefit of a football team he doesn't support.

Nicko is a neutral paid to report on clubs in our area, who is apparently pretty good mates with Owen Coyle. I don't think, other than that, he favours either team or wants either team to do badly. As has been said, Nicko has got this info from a source at the club who will no doubt keep him in the loop and when the deal is close enough to report on officially, I'm sure he'll be the first to print with it.. unless someone else with less journalistic integrity runs it and spoils the deal for us.

That doesn't make any sense. Why would the "source" not want a bigger club coming in for their player?

And if the "source" was from the Rovers end and we wanted to keep it secret, why divulge it at all?

Because human beings by our nature are inveterate gossips who HAVE to tell someone when we know a secret.

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm sure he'll be the first to print with it.. unless someone else with less journalistic integrity runs it and spoils the deal for us.

Oh, come on, if the story was solid or interesting enough for an editor to run with it, nicko would print it.

It's his living.

[Fylde Coast Fan]

Oh, come on, if the story was solid or interesting enough for an editor to run with it, nicko would print it.

It's his living.

If a source asks you not to print it just yet, and you print it, you lose that source. One 50 word "football spy" story now isn't worth 20 more you lose by burning the source.

[Kelbo]

If a source asks you not to print it just yet, and you print it, you lose that source. One 50 word "football spy" story now isn't worth 20 more you lose by burning the source.

Yes, Exactly,I agree!!

[patrickvalery]

Yes, Exactly,I agree!!

As much as i appreciate Nicko's updates (hence being logged on at this magical hour) i agree with Rev. Its his job. He has to put food on the table the same as any of us. Whats proably more important is his source. I am totally unqualified in such matters, but i imagine most journo sources are player advisors or agents. I would imagine most clubs have had their fingers burnt too often to get pally with journalists.

[Kelbo]

As much as i appreciate Nicko's updates (hence being logged on at this magical hour) i agree with Rev. Its his job. He has to put food on the table the same as any of us. Whats proably more important is his source. I am totally unqualified in such matters, but i imagine most journo sources are player advisors or agents. I would imagine most clubs have had their fingers burnt too often to get pally with journalists.

Liken this with a crime reporter, the same thing applies and likewise a 'grass' in both instances, sensative information would not be divulged until the OK, otherwise thesourse disappears!!

[Fylde Coast Fan]

As much as i appreciate Nicko's updates (hence being logged on at this magical hour) i agree with Rev. Its his job. He has to put food on the table the same as any of us. Whats proably more important is his source. I am totally unqualified in such matters, but i imagine most journo sources are player advisors or agents. I would imagine most clubs have had their fingers burnt too often to get pally with journalists.

Journos are the bane of football a lot of the time but they're a necessary evil, even for clubs and managers. Some managers are friendlier with the press than others - just look at Harry Redknapp and his mostly undeserved reputation as a great bloke with just about every columnist in print - but I'm sure they all talk. You can usually tell the ones who don't by the universal criticism they get from writers.

[patrickvalery]

Liken this with a crime reporter, the same thing applies and likewise a 'grass' in both instances, sensative information would not be divulged until the OK, otherwise thesourse disappears!!

Its too late for me to get my simple brain around this analogy. All i can think of is Fred West being represented by Willie Mckay. I honestly say this without sarcasm. I'm sure its a valid point, I just can't begin to try and get my head round it.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

You can usually tell the ones who don't by the universal criticism they get from writers.

Mr Allardyce?

[patrickvalery]

Journos are the bane of football a lot of the time but they're a necessary evil, even for clubs and managers. Some managers are friendlier with the press than others - just look at Harry Redknapp and his mostly undeserved reputation as a great bloke with just about every columnist in print - but I'm sure they all talk. You can usually tell the ones who don't by the universal criticism they get from writers.

They are and they aren't. If you are in a strong position then they can be a very useful tool. But unfortunately, due to our size and stature, they usually work against us. Primarily because our top players seem to have clauses which journo's and rich clubs seem to love equally. Ones which inevtiablly seem to conspire against us. Ironically, RSC's clause would have worked for us this summer had it not been for his injuries latter end of the season.

Completely agree with the Redknapp thing too. The guy is little more than a common criminal. His continual two faced comments seem to be overlooked time and time again, simply cos he's a cheerful cockney. I await the day he jumps up and clips his heels before singing "Wiv a little bit. Wiv a little bit. Wiv a little bit of bloomin luck" And getting a bloody knighthood for his trouble.

[Kelbo]

We all have our thoughts on who we should sign, football is very much opinionated, Nicko, in fairness,gives this site a rel buzz, even the Villa fan coes here to read his posts but, at the end of the day, Sam knows the type of players he wants, who he feels can fit into his system of play!

Yes, lots of great footballers around, but if they dont fit into the pattern they are no good for us.

Someone mentioned Redknapp on here, he signs players and many dont fit in! I think Sam is much better than that, he knows what he needs to gel into the way he wants to play and he has a knack of getting the right guys at the right price either through wages or fees, Givet was a gem, Diouff did what was needed, i know there are critics, but he pushes on to their midfield and fullbcks and they are not allowed to play,bang a few crosses in as well and job done!

He has got Pederson doing that now on the other side and worked on his long throws!!

Sam is clever and a very good motivator, he does seem to get players to play for him, just like Coyle down the road!!

I really do trust Sam as manager of Rovers, we are in good hands, better than I imagined as I was sceptical about him in the summer, but I watched the game against Stoke, his first for Rovers,and the way he set the team up was basic, yet very solid coaching, defending in two banks of four and support from the midfield when attacking!!

JW is a great chairman, he tries ever so hard, a mistake with Ince, but thats all, heres to next season, to a better season, with Sam as the boss!!

Arte Et Labore

[Ewood and I Would]

Nicko is a neutral paid to report on clubs in our area, who is apparently pretty good mates with Owen Coyle. I don't think, other than that, he favours either team or wants either team to do badly.

Fair enough, I take back the dingle attribute I made but he still doesn’t owe us any favours as a neutral and a neutral with a financial incentive to do the opposite.

As has been said, Nicko has got this info from a source at the club who will no doubt keep him in the loop and when the deal is close enough to report on officially

Has the source been confirmed as someone from the club? If it has then ignore what I’m about to say, but if that’s just a guess then the rest of what you say is based on an unproven presupposition.

I'm sure he'll be the first to print with it.. unless someone else with less journalistic integrity runs it and spoils the deal for us.

Why would someone who printed it have less journalistic integrity? Nicko prints stories all the time about potential signings and this is just another one. If the same information fell into another journalist’s hands who ran with it he’d been acting no differently to nicko on many other stories.

Because human beings by our nature are inveterate gossips who HAVE to tell someone when we know a secret.

If it was revealed by a club “insider”, then why risk your job by giving a journalist information before you want it put out? Human nature isn’t enough if you place information that could cost you your job in the one place where it’s most likely at risk at being published, a journo’s hands!

If a source asks you not to print it just yet, and you print it, you lose that source. One 50 word "football spy" story now isn't worth 20 more you lose by burning the source.

But then hasn’t he risked annoying the source by revealing it on here? He hasn’t revealed the name but we know it’s a striker who is rated as better than Kuranyi (by nicko anyway – he rates Alexander as being better than Tugay so maybe not the best judge but I digress), a striker and available which could be enough for other clubs to put the feelers out.

On balance you may not be wrong and I do appreciate your argument. It’s feasible but I’ll see how it all turns out in the end. However, regardless of the validity of nicko’s reasons for withholding the story, no one has answered why the other parties involved haven’t squeaked.

So involved we have Rovers, nicko/press, the player, his agent, his current club; I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and excuse nicko but there are still 3 of those who interest it is to put the story out there. A bidding war suits the agent and the selling club; having more offers on the table benefits the player both financially and possibly aspirationally (if he’s as good as we’re all expecting). Why are they staying silent?

If you’re a football agent and you’re client is available it is in your financial interest to get as many people interested as possible. Unless.....no....it makes sense now...THIS IS A BUNG job!!!!

[Ewood and I Would]

As much as i appreciate Nicko's updates (hence being logged on at this magical hour) i agree with Rev. Its his job. He has to put food on the table the same as any of us. Whats proably more important is his source. I am totally unqualified in such matters, but i imagine most journo sources are player advisors or agents. I would imagine most clubs have had their fingers burnt too often to get pally with journalists.

A "grass" usually gets immunity from prosecution in exchange for the information he provides; what does the source get?

Seriously why dont you take this into another thread where you can all argue about the rights and wrongs of agents, journo's and the rest. FFS!

Because it's related directly to one of the issues being discussed. You may not like my point of view but to whine and act all butt hurt is just uneccessary.

Jeez you remind me of eminem at the MTV Movie Awards.

[Fylde Coast Fan]

A "grass" usually gets immunity from prosecution in exchange for the information he provides; what does the source get?

That's a wider topic than just nicko's (non-) story that takes in hundreds of years of journalism. All reporters in all aspects of the media rely on "inside men".

In the case of this particular one though - maybe the source is someone inside Rovers who knows nicko posts on here and wants him to give us a bit of hope for the summer, but doesn't want him to leak the name in case other clubs get wind of it? I have no clue if this is the case or not, but since the only other option is that nicko made the whole story up out of thin air, I choose to prefer this option.