[Archived] Sky News Now

[ABBEY]

is bradford west yorkshire because one of my best mates lives there and he tells me of HUGE problems?

[Mattyblue]

There is no problem in West Yorkshire.

Some people (in all communities) have a problem with it. That's life.

Great Britain has always evolved and will continue to do so.

that is the most complacent thing I have ever heard.

Great Britain has not had an influx of people whose culture is so different than ours before. Q the 'well the Anglo Saxons were different than the Britons' brigade

[thenodrog]

There seems to be a lot of heads in the sand over this.

There is a hell of a lot of resentment out there. Can you seriously say that the 3rd generation Muslims of East Lancs are more integrated than the 1st generation? Can you say that the vast majority of white East Lancs youngsters are now in a post racial mindset?.........

..........But it does'nt work like that, 'White flight' has and continues to happen. Its so easy to blame it on 'ignorance' 'racism' but look at an an area like Little Harwood, once an area with a pub, butchers, families that go back in the area for generations has now been replaced by an Asian area with no pub, halal butchers, those families that made Little Harwood their own have now dispersed. It is not multi-culturalism that takes place in areas it is one mono-culture replaced by another.

This messageboard is nationwide and worldwide, but can those from East Lancs or perhaps West Yorkshire SERIOUSLY tell me that we have'nt got a massive problem on our hands?

Can't say that warnings were not available in the past and given by those of far greater intellect and foresight. Like this fella in 1968.....

"In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be, in this country, three and a half million Commonwealth immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure; that is the official figure given to Parliament by the spokesman of the Registrar General's Office. There is no comparable official figure for the year 2000, but it must be in the region of five to seven million, approximately one tenth of the whole population, and approaching that of Greater London. Of course, it will not be evenly distributed from Margate to Aberystwyth and from Penzance to Aberdeen. Whole areas, towns and parts of towns across England will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population..........."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.........."The other dangerous delusion from which those who are wilfully or otherwise blind to realities suffer, is summed up in the word "integration". To be integrated into a population means to become for all practical purposes indistinguishable from its other members. Now, at all times, where there are marked physical differences, especially of colour, integration is difficult though, over a period, not impossible. There are among the Commonwealth immigrants who have come to live here in the last fifteen years or so, many thousands whose wish and purpose is to be integrated and whose every thought and endeavour is bent in that direction. But to imagine that such a thing enters the heads of a great and growing majority of immigrants and their descendants is a ludicrous misconception, and a dangerous one.

We are on the verge here of a change. Hitherto it has been force of circumstance and of background which has rendered the very idea of integration inaccessible to the greater part of the immigrant population - that they never conceived or intended such a thing, and that their numbers and physical concentration meant the pressures towards integration which normally bear upon any small minority did not operate. Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population."

The accuracy cannot be denied.

[philipl]

that is the most complacent thing I have ever heard.

Great Britain has not had an influx of people whose culture is so different than ours before. Q the 'well the Anglo Saxons were different than the Britons' brigade

The moans about the Italians and Latvians in Darwen in the '60s were just the same.

"They're all carthlics and they eat dog food."

[Mattyblue]

The moans about the Italians and Latvians in Darwen in the '60s were just the same.

"They're all carthlics and they eat dog food."

100% my dads a Darrener and he recalls it well.

However, the Muslim population of Blackburn is now 3rd generation and now less integrated than the 1st the polar oposite of Italian immigration.

[thenodrog]

100% my dads a Darrener and he recalls it well.

However, the Muslim population of Blackburn is now 3rd generation and now less integrated than the 1st the polar oposite of Italian immigration.

Good point mattyblue but not strictly trus. The kids from the first traunch of IndoPak immigrants who came looking for work in the 60's and early 70's integrated extremely well as had their parents. Both sexes too! They dressed like us, they wore school uniforms to the letter, they socialised with us, played football with us, spoke with 'proper' Blackburn accents etc etc. There was not a problem in my experience. Just like the Darwen/Italian example before it imo.

Then from the late 70's the whole issue soured as the whiskery bearded old git's (grandparents of the former in the main brought in not to work but out of duty by their children) with stern expressions, no socks, shirts out, half mast trousers, rag heads and an irrational fear of dogs and camera's began appearing in numbers. Coming from some backward village miles from civilisation they must have been horrified seeing their 'westernised' offspring and quickly introduced islamic indoctrination from the cradle with mosque attendance and Q'uran studies after every school day. The rest is an example of very unfortunate history as our authorities fell over themselves to appease the minority and in the process capture votes and 'buy' political strength. Banning traditional school assemblies, changing school uniforms, introducing islamic subjects to the curriculum, the ban on ritual slaughter of animals was lifted, we saw councils whisking away the Christmas crib, the English flag, providing grants to move toilets in houses to avoid showing Mecca your arse, disproportionate public spending etc etc. Designed to welcome a different culture it simply alienated the indegenous population and drove a serious wedge through the two cultures. If it had been the intention to do so it could hardly have been planned and carried out any better. Such a shame, such a waste and such a folly, we have acted like a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

[adopted scouser]

Good point mattyblue but not strictly trus. The kids from the first traunch of IndoPak immigrants who came looking for work in the 60's and early 70's integrated extremely well as had their parents. Both sexes too! They dressed like us, they wore school uniforms to the letter, they socialised with us, played football with us, spoke with 'proper' Blackburn accents etc etc. There was not a problem in my experience. Just like the Darwen/Italian example before it imo.

Then from the late 70's the whole issue soured as the whiskery bearded old git's (grandparents of the former in the main brought in not to work but out of duty by their children) with stern expressions, no socks, shirts out, half mast trousers, rag heads and an irrational fear of dogs and camera's began appearing in numbers. Coming from some backward village miles from civilisation they must have been horrified seeing their 'westernised' offspring and quickly introduced islamic indoctrination from the cradle with mosque attendance and Q'uran studies after every school day. The rest is an example of very unfortunate history as our authorities fell over themselves to appease the minority and in the process capture votes and 'buy' political strength. Banning traditional school assemblies, changing school uniforms, introducing islamic subjects to the curriculum, the ban on ritual slaughter of animals was lifted, we saw councils whisking away the Christmas crib, the English flag, providing grants to move toilets in houses to avoid showing Mecca your arse, disproportionate public spending etc etc. Designed to welcome a different culture it simply alienated the indegenous population and drove a serious wedge through the two cultures. If it had been the intention to do so it could hardly have been planned and carried out any better. Such a shame, such a waste and such a folly, we have acted like a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

I remember my mate Yusuf at Edmund Arrowsmith's and Imtiaz who used to go to Blackburn Sea Cadets with me on Troy Street, happy days then but not now.

Post of the year Gordon.

[MeanGreenMachine]

Im glad to know i can blame everything on the muslims now.

Crock....of....######

[thenodrog]

Im glad to know i can blame everything on the muslims now.

Crock....of....######

Hold on mgm ..... you cannot tag em all like that. Many are OK, it's just the ill educated backward looking ones that have caused most of the current issues.

[jim mk2]

Never mind Sky .... anyone notice the awful spelling error in the background headline of the lead story (RAF crash inquiry) on the BBC One 10pm news ?

[adopted scouser]

Where's the typo Jim?

They typed Damming instead of Damning. N and M next to each other on the keyboard but it should have been picked up.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Immigrant double killer is allowed to remain in Britain (what a surprise)

The Home Office has confirmed that Iraqi immigrant, Laith Alani, pictured above, who stabbed two doctors to death because he said he had a "command from Allah" has won the right to stay in Britain.

Alani was 24 at the time he killed two doctors at Pinderfields Hospital in Wakefield, West Yorkshire, in 1990. An immigration tribunal has decided that Alani, a paranoid schizophrenic, should not be deported to Iraq because it would "breach his human rights and put people in Iraq at risk".

So it's perfectly okay for people in Britain to be put at risk from Alani, but it's not acceptable for people in his homeland to be put at risk?

One of the two doctors Alani stabbed to death was one of Britain's leading plastic surgeons, Dr Kenneth Paton, who was the brainchild of new surgical procedures to help create artificial ears for people born with no ears.

Mr Paton's widow Dorothy said: "I think Alani should be deported. I argued that at the time of the trial. I think he is going to be a danger to people in Britain. He is a dangerous man."

I'm afraid though that in our country the "human rights" of killers appear to come ahead of the human rights of family victims.

Sorry Dorothy, but that's just the way it is in our country now.

Dr Hamish Paton, the victim’s son, said that his family had never been notified of moves to release Alani and for him not to be deported. "We should certainly have been informed that his case was being reviewed, especially the issue of whether he should be deported," he said.

"We would find it very alarming if he committed another similar crime. That would be truly appalling. There seems to be a strong bias towards his rights and not the rights of the British people."

Indeed there does appear to be that bias Hamish.

Dr Paton's family have called for a review of the system used to assess and release offenders like Alani, so that officials were held accountable for their decisions.

Hamish said: "Any person who decides Alani should remain in this country should be personally responsible for his supervision," he said. "And they should take responsibility if anything goes wrong. One of the problems is that responsibility for his care is so widespread that if he did commit another crime there would be no individual held accountable for it. I think judges and courts who make these decisions should stand by them should anything go wrong."

Dr Kenneth Paton was killed just two years short of retirement after 20 years working as a consultant at Pinderfields hospital between 1970 and 1990. Hamish said: "My dad was a very talented, charming, hard-working member of society and his loss was felt very deeply by an awful lot of people. There was a memorial service at Wakefield Cathedral which was full of his patients and well-wishers."

"During his life he was constantly available on the end of the telephone, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. In the earlier part of his career there were no seat belt laws and he was always being called out in the middle of the night to stitch up people’s faces."

Hamish said he had an abiding memory of his father bringing home bundles of patient notes each night and dutifully preparing for the next day’s consultations. He took only one holiday a year – to the Western Isles of Scotland – because his workload did not allow more leisure time.

"My mother's life was devastated by the loss of her husband and it's only through her great strength of character that she has managed to rebuild her life," said Hamish.

"He never got to see four of his six grandchildren, including my two daughters. My dad was only two years away from a very well-deserved retirement and that was taken away from him. The consequences of Alani being released in Britain and repeating his crimes are just too appalling to think about."

Please for God's sake can somebody take personal responsibility for the decision not to deport this man back to Iraq.

If Alani kills again in Britain and devastates another family, surely the person whose decision it was not to deport him to Iraq must face up to the consequences of his actions.

I would strongly agree with Hamish Paton that we need a fundamental review of the immigration tribunals who stubbornly refuse to deport murderers back to the country of their origin and talk about the "human rights" of killers. Such a policy is putting the lives of innocent British people at risk.

Being in the EU and signing up to the "Human Rights Act" has done nothing for victims in Britain who are killed by foreigners who should have been deported.

We have lost control of our borders and lost control of our country. It's a desperately sad situation - particularly sad for people like Hamish and Dorothy Paton.

Surely the Prime Minister and the Government of this country need to take a certain degree of responsibility for the fact we have lost control of our borders, that deportation and immigration policy in this country is a complete shambles, and that the human rights of killers appear to come ahead of the human rights of victims.

Link below:

Immigrant killer to remain in Britain

[Amo]

It's not often I agree with your right-wing agenda, AESF, but this is something that particularly gets my goat. I don't understand why our government is so weak-kneed that it cannot deport people who have abused the right to live in this country.

[thenodrog]

This is the crux of the matter.....

Hamish said: "Any person who decides Alani should remain in this country should be personally responsible for his supervision," he said. "And they should take responsibility if anything goes wrong. One of the problems is that responsibility for his care is so widespread that if he did commit another crime there would be no individual held accountable for it. I think judges and courts who make these decisions should stand by them should anything go wrong."

Case after case proves that 'passing the buck' is endemic within our social services and legal system.

[Rovermatt]

I'm afraid though that in our country the "human rights" of killers appear to come ahead of the human rights of family victims.

Is he actually being released though? Unless he escapes he's not a danger to anybody, here or in Iraq. Not that you want to let facts get in the way of a good screed of course.

What exactly are the Human Rights owed to a victim's family in such cases? Yes the perpetrator of the crime should be punished and locked up for the rest of his life but any failure to do so hardly breaches the rights of a victim's family. It's a familiar refrain used by those on the right, however it doesn't make much sense.

You obviously don't believe in or care for Human Rights of any description. Why do you care if these alleged rights are breached or not? Railing against Human Rights and then using them as the basis for your political agenda is plainly preposterous.

[thenodrog]

You obviously don't believe in or care for Human Rights of any description.

Must admit I struggle with the concept. Human beings have a right to draw breath and thats about it imo. Human rights must be massively flawed simply because they were thought up by humans. How conceited and arrogant is that?

[Rovermatt]

Freedom of the press. BNP style.

The Times is hardly a bastion of terrifying liberal sentiment, yet this shows how little control Griffin has over his party's true character and the vile pond-life who infest it at every level.

[adopted scouser]

Freedom of the press. BNP style.

The Times is hardly a bastion of terrifying liberal sentiment, yet this shows how little control Griffin has over his party's true character and the vile pond-life who infest it at every level.

You're only annoyed 'cause a Ginge got roughed up

[thenodrog]

Freedom of the press. BNP style.

The Times is hardly a bastion of terrifying liberal sentiment, yet this shows how little control Griffin has over his party's true character and the vile pond-life who infest it at every level.

Indeed rovermatt. Obviously way past time for a proper user friendly version that has no time for the thugs and the prejudiced!

Y'know one that Joe Ordinary responsible taxpayer married with 2.4 kids, a job, a mortgage and no criminal record might feel represents him and his like and is willing and able to make his quiet voice heard over the shrill bleatings of every half arsed, selfish and agenda'd minority walking the surface of the planet.

Bring it on.

[Rovermatt]

You're only annoyed 'cause a Ginge got roughed up

That must be it.

Indeed rovermatt. Obviously way past time for a proper user friendly version that has no time for the thugs and the prejudiced!

Y'know one that Joe Ordinary responsible taxpayer married with 2.4 kids, a job, a mortgage and no criminal record might feel represents him and his like and is willing and able to make his quiet voice heard over the shrill bleatings of every half arsed, selfish and agenda'd minority walking the surface of the planet.

Bring it on.

You make a good point. The BNP will never represent such people of course.

[ABBEY]

scum

[adopted scouser]

scum

And amongst us unfortunately

[ABBEY]

Nice to see forza advertising for Polish only .

[ABBEY]

As for the couple facing jail ib dubai for drinking and having a kiss buggers belief .how come these muslim countries don't let people do things yet in our country if your a muslim you van go in banks dressed like dick turpin but you can't. Wear a bike helmet or your no lo ger allowed bacon I. Kfc and we are now being forced to eat a bucket of kfc killed barbarically by muslims.

Sausage fingured typos with phone

[Ewood Spark]

As for the couple facing jail ib dubai for drinking and having a kiss buggers belief .how come these muslim countries don't let people do things yet in our country if your a muslim you van go in banks dressed like dick turpin but you can't. Wear a bike helmet or your no lo ger allowed bacon I. Kfc and we are now being forced to eat a bucket of kfc killed barbarically by muslims.

Sausage fingured typos with phone

Take it from me Abbey, as somebody who has spent time in Dubai, western culture has had a more profound influence there than eastern culture has had here.