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[BuckyRover]

  thenodrog said:

A completely natural human trait. Birds of a feather and all that. It's the same the world over and you won't change generation after generation of tribal instinct just cos you went to university Bucky.

Revert to Tris's point above your post.

Incorrect. I believe you are referring to ethnocentricity. That is the human trait to associate with people like ones self (race, gender, beliefs).

Many racists argue that this is an excuse to "value" one race a above another (I.e. Preferential treatment). But any rational person knows the difference. Hitler didn't.

[thenodrog]

  BuckyRover said:

Kelbo's "friend", your "friend, MattyBlue alluded to it and theno said he would do if people continued to be speak up against them.

Only in preference to wooly liberals in arran sweaters and sandals, dirty scruffy stinking work shy hippies and shrieking hate filled lesbians.

Not that I want to pigeon hole people mind.

[thenodrog]

  BuckyRover said:

Incorrect. I believe you are referring to ethnocentricity. That is the human trait to associate with people like ones self (race, gender, beliefs).

Many racists argue that this is an excuse to "value" one race a above another (I.e. Preferential treatment). But any rational person knows the difference. Hitler didn't.

No I am not. Ethnocentricity is the belief that one race is superior to another. Aryan race and all that. The tribal instinct to which I refer is in us all and is more related to the fear and mistrust of other groups, the need for self preservation and protection of the best interests of ones own offspring and 'tribe'.

[BuckyRover]

Ethnocentrism (it's been a while) is not the belief that ones race is superior. You have confused it with the BNP. Google will sort this confusion out for you.

[thenodrog]

  BuckyRover said:

Ethnocentrism (it's been a while) is not the belief that ones race is superior. You have confused it with the BNP. Google will sort this confusion out for you.

Try first def up here ........

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&i...mp;aq=f&oq=

"1. Belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group."

[Bazzanotsogreat]

  Rovermatt said:

Cheers...

Did you not ask what's he done wrong? Crime or not, denying the Holocaust is despicable. Anyway, who says 'I'm eager to convict' someone on their beliefs? You asked, I replied.

This little snippet pretty much sums up why the BNP are growing in popularity. People want Griffin arrested for denying the holocaust (probably rightly so).

However, the same liberal-left group, do not denounce Islamic extremists that spit at UK soldiers, accusing them of rape, murder and other vexatious crimes. We have seen fundamentalists protesting throughout our streets claiming that Jews are pigs and should be killed, The cartoonist behind the satirical drawings depicting Muhammad to be hung- the list goes on.

On a smaller level we have seen the poster ROTR denounce Jews, gays and white women- yet little to nothing was done about his/her behaviour.

The key to stopping the far-right is to apply consistency throughout society & not to be afraid of upsetting certain ethnic group’s beliefs. If you takeaway the BNP’s manta of been unfairly treated (representing the “downtrodden white folk”)- we will find that people will have very little reason to vote for them.

[Rovermatt]

  Bazzanotsogreat said:

This little snippet pretty much sums up why the BNP are growing in popularity. People want Griffin arrested for denying the holocaust (probably rightly so).

However, the same liberal-left group, do not denounce Islamic extremists that spit at UK soldiers, accusing them of rape, murder and other vexatious crimes. We have seen fundamentalists protesting throughout our streets claiming that Jews are pigs and should be killed, The cartoonist behind the satirical drawings depicting Muhammad to be hung- the list goes on.

Utter nonsense. When has anyone offered anything but condemnation for such actions? Saying it over and over does not make it correct.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

  Rovermatt said:

Utter nonsense. When has anyone offered anything but condemnation for such actions? Saying it over and over does not make it correct.

Were the perpetrators arrested? No – the ring leader actually got air-time on GMTV the follwing morning, spouting off about British culture and defending the actions of Muslims that protested against the UK soldiers.

Why is Geert Wilders (an elected European politician) banned from entering the UK? Yet several of Hezbollah’s top brass are welcomed with open-arms?

Surely even you Matt can see that such an uneven approach will only fuel the BNP’s flames.

[stuwilky]

I suspect the whole irony in all of this furore is that the fuss over the BNP's number of votes falling will mean that more people will get off their arse and vote.

With a spot of luck

[colin]

  Bazzanotsogreat said:

This little snippet pretty much sums up why the BNP are growing in popularity. People want Griffin arrested for denying the holocaust (probably rightly so).

However, the same liberal-left group, do not denounce Islamic extremists that spit at UK soldiers, accusing them of rape, murder and other vexatious crimes. We have seen fundamentalists protesting throughout our streets claiming that Jews are pigs and should be killed, The cartoonist behind the satirical drawings depicting Muhammad to be hung- the list goes on.

If you think that Islamic extremists deseve to be denounced, you go and organise it, or join a group that does.

Don't sit at your computer criticising others for not doing what you want them do. Especially when it's obvious that you don't agree with them in the first place.

It's a bit of a daft stance to take IMO. And I know daft. And to prove it.

[thenodrog]

  stuwilky said:

I suspect the whole irony in all of this furore is that the fuss over the BNP's number of votes falling will mean that more people will get off their arse and vote.

For who? The establishment pigs with their snouts in the public trough? There's the rub Stu.

[American]

  dave birch said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being a holocaust denier a crime in parts of Europe?

But not where he lives....

[thenodrog]

  dave birch said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being a holocaust denier a crime in parts of Europe?

I must say it's a stupid notion given that we still have people capable of giving eye witness accounts ..... but theoretically speaking doesn't the right to freedom of speech underpin any true Democracy?

Alternatively if free speech is to be denied and controlled any control is in the hands of the law makers, or in our democracy whichever government is in power and with whatever agenda it decides to implement. Basicall the notion of free speech here is just a sham and a bollux.

[Mattyblue]

  Bazzanotsogreat said:

This little snippet pretty much sums up why the BNP are growing in popularity. People want Griffin arrested for denying the holocaust (probably rightly so).

However, the same liberal-left group, do not denounce Islamic extremists that spit at UK soldiers, accusing them of rape, murder and other vexatious crimes. We have seen fundamentalists protesting throughout our streets claiming that Jews are pigs and should be killed, The cartoonist behind the satirical drawings depicting Muhammad to be hung- the list goes on.

On a smaller level we have seen the poster ROTR denounce Jews, gays and white women- yet little to nothing was done about his/her behaviour.

The key to stopping the far-right is to apply consistency throughout society & not to be afraid of upsetting certain ethnic group’s beliefs. If you takeaway the BNP’s manta of been unfairly treated (representing the “downtrodden white folk”)- we will find that people will have very little reason to vote for them.

That is where we are in a nutshell.

Those on the left, Ken Livingstone as London Mayor as a prime example, often invited outrageously Fascist Islamic 'clerics' for meetings, to show his inclusivity, George Galloway another. Those characters spout many more 'Fascist' views than anything eminating from Nick Griffin.

[dave birch]

  American said:

But not where he lives....

where who lives?

[dave birch]

  thenodrog said:

I must say it's a stupid notion given that we still have people capable of giving eye witness accounts ..... but theoretically speaking doesn't the right to freedom of speech underpin any true Democracy?

Alternatively if free speech is to be denied and controlled any control is in the hands of the law makers, or in our democracy whichever government is in power and with whatever agenda it decides to implement. Basicall the notion of free speech here is just a sham and a bollux.

But surely, the reason for objecting the deniers (in this case) is that they are trying to deny the truth. So, in giving the right to free speech we give the right to tell the truth (if it is the undeniably truth). We cannot let history be affected by those that will claim other than what happened.

[BiggusLaddus]

  dave birch said:

But surely, the reason for objecting the deniers (in this case) is that they are trying to deny the truth. So, in giving the right to free speech we give the right to tell the truth (if it is the undeniably truth). We cannot let history be affected by those that will claim other than what happened.

Thats the problem with freedom of speech and democracy in general though isn't it. It also applies to people you disagree with.

[American]

  dave birch said:

where who lives?

Follow the discussion Dave, I was asking what Nick Griffin has done to break the law (although not clear in the question) someone said he was a holocaust denier and I said that isn't breaking the law.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

  colin said:

If you think that Islamic extremists deseve to be denounced, you go and organise it, or join a group that does.

Don't sit at your computer criticising others for not doing what you want them do. Especially when it's obvious that you don't agree with them in the first place.

It's a bit of a daft stance to take IMO. And I know daft. And to prove it.

That just about sums up the hypocrisy of you Colin. You think it is okay for you to criticise anyone with an opinion to the right of yours- yet when someone dares to criticise extremists from another culture- we shouldn’t because we haven’t formed some sort of group.

It is appeased attitudes that has lead the liberal- left scratching there heads as to why the BNP are so popular.

[dave birch]

  American said:

Follow the discussion Dave, I was asking what Nick Griffin has done to break the law (although not clear in the question) someone said he was a holocaust denier and I said that isn't breaking the law.

American, It doesn't matter where you live. We have an holocaust denier here in Aust. He was tavelling in the UK, and the Germans (I think) had the Brits hold him for extradition to Germany for trial. He took it to the supreme court before he got off and was allowed to return to Australia.

  Bazzanotsogreat said:

That just about sums up the hypocrisy of you Colin. You think it is okay for you to criticise anyone with an opinion to the right of yours- yet when someone dares to criticise extremists from another culture- we shouldn’t because we haven’t formed some sort of group.

It is appeased attitudes that has lead the liberal- left scratching there heads as to why the BNP are so popular.

Hardly hypocritical. All he's saying is, "if you've got an itch, scratch it."

[Grabbi Graeme]

Don't know if anyone seen Have I got News For you, but on the subject of the the BNP Blackburn and Burnley got mentioned.

[American]

So if I have oral sex, I can be sent to a Muslim country and convicted?

[Rovermatt]

  Bazzanotsogreat said:

That just about sums up the hypocrisy of you Colin. You think it is okay for you to criticise anyone with an opinion to the right of yours- yet when someone dares to criticise extremists from another culture- we shouldn’t because we haven’t formed some sort of group.

It is appeased attitudes that has lead the liberal- left scratching there heads as to why the BNP are so popular.

I know you love labels but assuming that the 'liberal-left' is the only group concerned with the BNP's success in the recent election (with less votes of course) is hugely naive.

[dave birch]

A guy called Fredrick Toben was arrested at Heathrow on board a plane on the basis that he was a Holocaust Denier and wanted in Germany. He'd already spent time behind bars in Germany. He was en route from the US to Dubai when he was arrested.

[American]

So he had spent time in Germany and publicly denied the Holocaust there? That would make sense, anything else having him do time in Germany wouldn't.