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[dave birch]

No, at the time he was en route from the US to Dubai. On board a plane at Heathrow airport. He's an Australian citizen. The Germans wanted him for something to do with denying the Holocaust in a publication he puts out (the "Adelaide Institute" or the like)

[thenodrog]

American, It doesn't matter where you live. We have an holocaust denier here in Aust. He was tavelling in the UK, and the Germans (I think) had the Brits hold him for extradition to Germany for trial. He took it to the supreme court before he got off and was allowed to return to Australia.

Quite right or we'd be locking up members of the Flat Earth society etc.

A guy called Fredrick Toben was arrested at Heathrow on board a plane on the basis that he was a Holocaust Denier and wanted in Germany. He'd already spent time behind bars in Germany. He was en route from the US to Dubai when he was arrested.

So if we are to lock up liars where does that leave the day time inhabitants of the Palace of Westminster?

[Billy Castell]

I'm with Gordon on this one. It seems silly locking someone up for denying something happened. It's like flogging someone for not believing in God to an extent. I have a mental picture of this chap being held by police, with the officer saying "how dare you deny that my grandad helped murder millions of people when he was in the SS." All a bit odd really. The man is a bit crazy, and talks nonsense, but that's not a reason in itself for making him a criminal.

[joey_big_nose]

I must say it's a stupid notion given that we still have people capable of giving eye witness accounts ..... but theoretically speaking doesn't the right to freedom of speech underpin any true Democracy?

Alternatively if free speech is to be denied and controlled any control is in the hands of the law makers, or in our democracy whichever government is in power and with whatever agenda it decides to implement. Basicall the notion of free speech here is just a sham and a bollux.

It is funny. Is there anything else you can go to jail for lieing about? Obviously theres perjury etc, but that is if you are in court/in an office of responsibility rahter than in the street.

Hmmm. Actually defamation/libel may have some parrallells. If I went around telling everybody Gord had gassed his own mother I guess I would end up going to jail eventually if I did it incessantly? Any Lawyers able to clear that up?

So maybe you could view Holocaust denial as a sort of formalised and specific defamation law?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

American, It doesn't matter where you live. We have an holocaust denier here in Aust. He was tavelling in the UK, and the Germans (I think) had the Brits hold him for extradition to Germany for trial. He took it to the supreme court before he got off and was allowed to return to Australia.

Hardly hypocritical. All he's saying is, "if you've got an itch, scratch it."

The problem is Dave is that if I did set up an anti Islamic extremist party I would probably get arrested under the new race-hate law, which seems vastly skewed. The only people (to my knowledge) who have been arrested are white supremacists. ( Which I am not).

My point being is that we have witnessed some disgusting protests by Islamists calling for the death of Jews, Gays Uk Soldiers.

As for Colin: talk about “pot calling kettle”, Colin is very big and brave behind his PC and tends to criticise all things non-left. He has yet to even convince me that he is even against extremists.

As for Rovermatt- why do you duck the major themes & instead pickup on minuscule points?

My earlier point still stands; if no groups are favoured, then why are the Hezbollah top brass, allowed right of passage into the UK- yet a democratically elected European politician is not.

[Rovermatt]

As for Rovermatt- why do you duck the major themes & instead pickup on minuscule points?

My earlier point still stands; if no groups are favoured, then why are the Hezbollah top brass, allowed right of passage into the UK- yet a democratically elected European politician is not.

I'm not so sure the point I made was miniscule. In fact, it relates to the subject of this thread. Decrying the evil liberal-left as being both responsible for, and concerned about, the BNP's electoral success is a deeply flawed argument.

Nor would I deny the discrepancy you've raised. The ban on Wilders was ridiculous. The man is an elected official from a perfectly civilised country. I have no doubt that such double standards inflame certain people's beliefs.

[dave birch]

The problem is Dave is that if I did set up an anti Islamic extremist party I would probably get arrested under the new race-hate law, which seems vastly skewed. The only people (to my knowledge) who have been arrested are white supremacists. ( Which I am not).

My point being is that we have witnessed some disgusting protests by Islamists calling for the death of Jews, Gays Uk Soldiers.

As for Colin: talk about “pot calling kettle”, Colin is very big and brave behind his PC and tends to criticise all things non-left. He has yet to even convince me that he is even against extremists.

As for Rovermatt- why do you duck the major themes & instead pickup on minuscule points?

My earlier point still stands; if no groups are favoured, then why are the Hezbollah top brass, allowed right of passage into the UK- yet a democratically elected European politician is not.

Bazza, if you set up an anti Islamic newspaper/website/radio station and you upset them that much that they really wanted to get you, and you travelled through a country that had extradition agreements with the country you upset, then, I'd say you would end up inside. That is nothing more than Fred Toben did.

I don't agree with Tobens thoughts, pronouncements, beliefs or whatever.

My only involvement in this thread is that you can get nailed for your beliefs outside the country that wants to nail you.

[colin]

That just about sums up the hypocrisy of you Colin. You think it is okay for you to criticise anyone with an opinion to the right of yours- yet when someone dares to criticise extremists from another culture- we shouldn’t because we haven’t formed some sort of group.

It is appeased attitudes that has lead the liberal- left scratching there heads as to why the BNP are so popular.

Bazza, I think you've missed the point.

If I want to throw eggs at Nick Griffin that's my choice.

If you want to throw eggs at people hurling insults at soldiers coming back from Afganistan or Iraq then feel free to do so. It's your choice.

Just don't tell me that I am hypocritical for not doing both. And don't tell me how to live my life and how I deal with the world around me.

I make my choices, you make yours. If you've got a problem with that then... I really don't give a flying one.

[thenodrog]

Bazza, I think you've missed the point.

If I want to throw eggs at Nick Griffin that's my choice.

If you want to throw eggs at people hurling insults at soldiers coming back from Afganistan or Iraq then feel free to do so. It's your choice.

Just don't tell me that I am hypocritical for not doing both. And don't tell me how to live my life and how I deal with the world around me.

I make my choices, you make yours. If you've got a problem with that then... I really don't give a flying one.

I think what Colin is trying to say Bazza is that you need to find out where he sits and chuck eggs at him and he won't give a flying one.

Personally I'd but em now for nest sesaon if I were you.

[colin]

I think what Colin is trying to say Bazza is that you need to find out where he sits and chuck eggs at him and he won't give a flying one.

What you think I am trying to say is pretty irrelevant. Well, to me anyway. I'm confident in my own coherence.

Whereas:

Personally I'd but em now for nest sesaon if I were you.

[Napoleon]

I believe in free speech as long as violence is not incited. Seeking to censor the BNP, Hezbollah or whoever only provides them more publicity than they otherwise would get, and allows them to play the martyr. The BNP especially thrive on this - the political correctness issue appeals to a lot of Brits.

On holocaust denial, I don't think personally that a few nutters denying the holocaust will ever affect how we remember the awful events. Allow them to say what they like openly, and be ridiculed openly. What I don't understand is just where they propose that all of these people went, if they were not executed?

[3rdpillar]

While it is a sad day for the northwest, people have to remember that he did get democratically voted in. The key thing for me is that the "mainstream" parties have to address looking at the turnout is voter apathy. So much has happened over the last 4 weeks with scandal upon scandal it is no surprise to me that people have decided not to vote and this has let in the likes of the BNP.

His comments about Islam not being welcome etc are par for the course as far as the BNP are concerned. The BNP will milk this for all that it is worth, I have noticed an increase in racial tensions over the last few months in the north, particularly in Burnley, Blackburn and Oldham and fear that these will spill over in the coming months.

What have you noticed?

[thenodrog]

Tell you what I've noticed in the telewag today....

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/...member_/?ref=mr

and

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/...sed_BNP_leader/

The other side of the coin possibly?

[ABBEY]

good to see we live free and the church loves one and all unless you are bald !!! it means they think your BNP.

[American]

Poor Tris!!

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Kitty Ussher gone.

Ta ra now. She was useless in the BSFTF scheme. Useless.

Sadly, probably replaced by a BNP MP.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

"We are not fascist and we don't want to see an all-white Britain," says Nick Griffin.

As a UKIP voter - not a BNP supporter - I do wonder at times why some people on the liberal left often try to suggest that the BNP want to remove all the blacks and Asians from Britain. That is not part of BNP policy, as Mr Griffin told the BBC's Andrew Marr this morning.

The BNP is in favour of a voluntary repatriation programme - the emphasis being on voluntary - for members of ethnic minorities "who want to go back to their lands of ethnic origin".

Apart from illegal immigrants who are not entitled to be in this country and therefore should indeed be removed, the black and Asian people who are here in Britain legally would not be forcibly removed from the UK under a BNP government.

I think it's time that the mob of loony-left fanatics who pelted Nick Griffin with eggs outside Westminster last month - injuring an innocent female tourist who was passing by when the mob threw placards - should now grow up and debate the issues in a civilised manner, instead of resorting to mob violence and chanting childish insults.

One of the so-called "anti-fascist" protesters said last month: "I'm in favour of free speech but not for fascists."

They don't get it do they? By branding people fascist, but refusing to look at their actual policies, refusing to debate the issues and being unwilling to allow a party that gained nearly a million democratic votes in an election the chance to actually describe their policies - preferring instead to resort to mob violence and throwing eggs and placards, the so-called "anti-fascists" are behaving like fascists themselves.

"Nick Griffin, Nazi Scum; Nick Griffin, Nazi Scum" is all the mob could chant. Why not debate the issues - and look into some of the reasons why the BNP attracted nearly a million votes from people in last month's European elections.

Or as Mattyblue put it very well earlier:

Nazi scum etc etc. The vast majority of BNP voters, especially in the former industrial North, are anything but Nazis. I've yet to see a Fascist policy amongst the BNP's but why let facts get in the way of an argument.

The BNP and non BNP voter have however watched over 30 years, their way of life being slowly eroded. The town of Blackburn is a complete shadow of what it was, to walk around a British town and to see woman after woman clad in a burqa is a total anathema to our culture.

Multi-culturalism has been an abject failure, the population of Blackburn 40 years ago- circa 100,000, today circa 100,000. Yet we have a large and growing South Asian population, it is obvious that 'white flight' is continuing at a pace. On both sides there has been very very little social interaction and that is becoming more not less apparent as time goes on.

To watch immigration continue unabated without the jobs or infrastructure to support it has created massive resentment. Think its time we debated it properly without shouting racism from the rooftops whenever an alternative view is raised.

Link: Nick Griffin tells Andrew Marr: "The BNP does not want an all-white UK,"

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Forgive me for not listening to a cretin who advocates murder of women and children.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8141069.stm

And in no circumstances could that be done without killing people. None whatsoever.

[OhmiBRFC]

This is a guy who - if in power - would practice eugenics on people with herditery diseases so that they cannot re-produced. A real nice guy.

[thenodrog]

Forgive me for not listening to a cretin who advocates murder of women and children.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8141069.stm

And in no circumstances could that be done without killing people. None whatsoever.

Didn't the Australian govt threaten similar action on a stricken boat load of illegals not too long ago ADB? What do you suggest that we do about the Aussies?

[thenodrog]

This is a guy who - if in power - would practice eugenics on people with herditery diseases so that they cannot re-produced. A real nice guy.

There is some merit in that Ohmi. Mate of mine and his wife decided to never have children as the liklehood was that they would have been born with Huntingdons chorea or the gene carrying it.... a terrible hereditary affliction btw.

Unfortunately there are many out there who would carry on regardless just for the benefits.

You and adb need to consider the benefits of debate rather than relying on simple summary judgement.

[dave birch]

Didn't the Australian govt threaten similar action on a stricken boat load of illegals not too long ago ADB? What do you suggest that we do about the Aussies?

Where did you get that one from, Theno?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Didn't the Australian govt threaten similar action on a stricken boat load of illegals not too long ago ADB? What do you suggest that we do about the Aussies?

The Aussies reroute immigrants to another holding island and then decide what to do with them. Griffin says we should sink their boats.

Not really comparable, is it?

[thenodrog]

Where did you get that one from, Theno?

Dunno Dave.

Lots of stuff here though....... Seems Italy and Canada might be at it too.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&i...earch&meta=

[Rovermatt]

There is some merit in that Ohmi. Mate of mine and his wife decided to never have children as the liklehood was that they would have been born with Huntingdons chorea or the gene carrying it.... a terrible hereditary affliction btw.

Unfortunately there are many out there who would carry on regardless just for the benefits.

Or maybe just because they want children.