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[thenodrog]

The Aussies reroute immigrants to another holding island and then decide what to do with them. Griffin says we should sink their boats.

Not really comparable, is it?

He needs to explain further then whether you listen or not.

imo If we were to intercept a boat load in the channel then I think the best action would be return em to France or wherever they embarked from, arrest the boat owner for trial in this country and then sink the boat. Letting them into some detention centre for a long winded and costly legal process at our expense is no deterrent is it? Lets be honest these 'refugees' certainly come through a lot of countries just to get here don't they? Why do you think that is?

[thenodrog]

Or maybe just because they want children.

Maybe you need to see the suffering that Huntingtons chorea causes before you come out with such stupid and flippant remarks. It is not pretty I can assure you. Just as a matter of interest would you like to live to see your children suffer a slow and painful death in early life just cos you want to push a pram around for a few years or cos your wife is pining for a family? Or possibly in the belief that a miracle cure will be developed in the nick of time?

I suggest that the selfish irresponsibility that you display might be partly behind Griffins thinking.

[Rovermatt]

Maybe you need to see the suffering that Huntingtons chorea causes before you come out with such stupid and flippant remarks. It is not pretty I can assure you. Just as a matter of interest would you like to live to see your children suffer a slow and painful death in early life just cos you want to push a pram around for a few years or cos your wife is pining for a family? Or possibly in the belief that a miracle cure will be developed in the nick of time?

I suggest that the selfish irresponsibility that you display might be partly behind Griffins thinking.

I wasn't talking about Huntingtons. Anyway, have you anything to support your claim that some people will have a sick child just for the 'benefits'? 'Benefits' that would surely be outweighed by the presence of a suffering child? Or indeed 'benefits' that would be exhausted by caring for said child? I am not the only one displaying 'stupid and flippant remarks' it would seem. Indeed such thinking is likely one justification used by Griffin and his ilk to underscore their beliefs.

[stuwilky]

There is some merit in that Ohmi. Mate of mine and his wife decided to never have children as the liklehood was that they would have been born with Huntingdons chorea or the gene carrying it.... a terrible hereditary affliction btw.

Unfortunately there are many out there who would carry on regardless just for the benefits.

A condition which doesnt usually onset until what? Mid 30's?

What benefits would they get to make having a child "profitable" as you appear to be saying?

[BuckyRover]

It's funny seeing somebody trying to justify the existence and validity of the BNP.

Makes me smile every time.

Enjoy theno!

[Flopsy]

Look, just dont bother Theno, he's proven he knows nothing about anytype of science, so why you would expect him to show anytype of knowledge or understanding anything about hereditry diseases, any type of disablilty or in fact compassion to anyone not Theno, for that matter is beyond me.

Oh for the record, disabilty allowance is about £18 a week for a child under three, let the good times roll eh?

[Tom]

It's funny seeing somebody trying to justify the existence and validity of the BNP.

Makes me smile every time.

Enjoy theno!

This is brilliant, I take it its all a micky take and not real yes?

Taken from the link:

When people say the BNP is a fascist party, what do you think?

Fascist – I don’t understand that word.

Think of Nazi Germany, or 1930s Italy.

I can’t even remember when that happened really, but I’m against them anyway.

You’re against who?

The Germans. I know that sounds evil… I was brought up that way.

But not the Nazis?

No, I don’t agree with that at all.

What’s the best thing about living in Britain today?

I hate Britain, and I want to move to Spain in the next couple of years, ‘cos our country’s not England anymore. It’s very rare for English people to live here anymore. When I went to Lanzarote, I felt more English there than I do here, and that’s no exaggeration.

But won’t you then be an immigrant too?

Yeah but the answer to that is I would go over to their country and respect their country. I wouldn’t go over there and try and do suicidal bombs [sic]. The immigrants that come over to this country should be making this a good country and proud of it and helping this country, but most of them don’t.

[Ritchie]

Maybe you need to see the suffering that Huntingtons chorea causes before you come out with such stupid and flippant remarks. It is not pretty I can assure you. Just as a matter of interest would you like to live to see your children suffer a slow and painful death in early life just cos you want to push a pram around for a few years or cos your wife is pining for a family? Or possibly in the belief that a miracle cure will be developed in the nick of time?

I suggest that the selfish irresponsibility that you display might be partly behind Griffins thinking.

Do you have a picture of Josef Mengele hanging on your wall, Theno?

You are an apologist for a racist non-entity and I find that rather shameful.

[BuckyRover]

I believe it is real although I think there are many leading questions. If you read the comments at the bottom one of the girls has tried to "defend" herself.

[thenodrog]

Look, just dont bother Theno, he's proven he knows nothing about anytype of science, so why you would expect him to show anytype of knowledge or understanding anything about hereditry diseases, any type of disablilty or in fact compassion to anyone not Theno, for that matter is beyond me.

Oh for the record, disabilty allowance is about £18 a week for a child under three, let the good times roll eh?

Nothing to do with disability initially you gormless git. Pass it on to Stu etc please in the usual fashion.

[thenodrog]

Do you have a picture of Josef Mengele hanging on your wall, Theno?

You are an apologist for a racist non-entity and I find that rather shameful.

I'll not sleep now.

Why do you jump to such a conclusion Ritchie? Have you submitted to the pack mentality being displayed on here again?

It's sweet FA to do with you of course but I've never voted for any ultra right wing party in my life.... sorry to destroy your preconceptions. Truth is that I'm simply proposing an alternative view to a few pontificating, limp wristed, woolly liberal types who cannot think their way past putting the kettle on in a morning and have likely never had an original thought or had to make a meaningful decision out of some commitee room in their lives.

Call me a Devils advocate if you like.

[dave birch]

The Aussies reroute immigrants to another holding island and then decide what to do with them. Griffin says we should sink their boats.

Not really comparable, is it?

That's if they are found before they hit the shores. Many have died attempting it.

There was a group that made it to the north west of WA. They were found, but on the point of death, they thought they would arrive in a metropolis, but didn't realise the size of this place.

Ordinarily, illegal immigrants get carted off to Christmas Island for checking. CI is an exclusion zone for immigration purposes; it stops them using the full weight of the law.

Over the past year or so, there has been more agreement with countries like Indonesia and Malaysia to stop the people smuggling (for that is what it is) and this appears to be having a bit of success, as they are arresting people in these countries now.

As for turning the boats around, I'm pretty certain that maritime law prevents this if they are in your area.

.

[thenodrog]

Ordinarily, illegal immigrants get carted off to Christmas Island for checking. CI is an exclusion zone for immigration purposes; it stops them using the full weight of the law.

Thats not daft is it? Would you lot consider hiring it out?

Once they are in Britain and under the 'protection' of some of our more stupid laws getting them out of the country is like getting rid of piles.

[dave birch]

Theno, you've got lots of little islands around the country, just make them "exclusion" zones, and there you go.

Having said that, you could make everything an exclusion zone and then rent a bit of France and then do the biz from there.

[yoda]

Theno, you've got lots of little islands around the country, just make them "exclusion" zones, and there you go.

Having said that, you could make everything an exclusion zone and then rent a bit of France and then do the biz from there.

I think we already tried that with Sangat!

[SouthAussieRover]

I think we already tried that with Sangat!

Try it with the Isle of Man or one of the Channel Islands then.

[dave birch]

Try it with the Isle of Man or one of the Channel Islands then.

[thenodrog]

Theno, you've got lots of little islands around the country, just make them "exclusion" zones, and there you go.

They should be our prisons. Mighty different task to get drugs into / escape from a penal colony on an uninhabited island in the outer hebrides imo. Bloody sight cheaper to run as well.

[Flopsy]

oh bless theno, shown you up again as being a know nothing compassionless berk again have we? I mean you calling anyone else a gormless git is hilarious in its hypocracy.

DLA for the disabled is £18 a week and the paperwork to get even that is a 40 odd page A4 document. But still they just do it for the benefits.

[thenodrog]

oh bless theno, shown you up again as being a know nothing compassionless berk again have we? I mean you calling anyone else a gormless git is hilarious in its hypocracy.

DLA for the disabled is £18 a week and the paperwork to get even that is a 40 odd page A4 document. But still they just do it for the benefits.

Please explain what child benefits have to do with disablement benefits brains.

[Flopsy]

Mate of mine and his wife decided to never have children as the liklehood was that they would have been born with Huntingdons chorea or the gene carrying it.... a terrible hereditary affliction btw.

Unfortunately there are many out there who would carry on regardless just for the benefits.

There you go, lack of brains, no mention of Child benefit (about £17 a week IIRC) but all about disabled and getting benefits for them

Or did you 'Miss speak'?

[thenodrog]

There you go, lack of brains, no mention of Child benefit (about £17 a week IIRC) but all about disabled and getting benefits for them

Or did you 'Miss speak'?

Best for you to stop digging when you have jumped to the wrong conclusions.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

They wanted to cause more damage than the September 11th twin towers attacks....

Evil Islamic extremists Abdulla Ahmed Ali, Tanvir Hussain and Assad Sarwar have been found guilty of planning to kill thousands of people in a massive terrorist airline bombing.

Terrorist police believe that Al-Qaida and extremists in Pakistan devised and provided key technical knowledge for the massive airline bomb plot in 2006. Plot leaders Assad Sarwar and Abdulla Ali had made several trips to Pakistan. "Their operational security was very, very good," a senior police officer said. "A large part of this plan was invented in Pakistan."

It's reported that terrorist police, the security services and prosecutors spent more than £35 million foiling the plot and prosecuting them.

In June 2006 Assad Sarwar again flew to Pakistan, where he was taught how to refine hydrogen peroxide to the high concentration required to produce a bomb.

Abdulla Ahmed Ali happens to be a British-born Islamic extremist. The last time I criticised the 2005 London tube bombers and questioned our immigration policy over the last 50 years, Colin berated me and insisted that the bombers were "British".

It is true that the July 7th London bombings were carried out by British-born muslims. They were second generation immigrants. However for the July 21st 2005 attempted bomb attacks two weeks later - when four attempted bombs mercifully didn't go off on London transport - the muslim extremists on that occasion who wanted to kill and maim people were not British-born.

Yasin Hassan Omar was born in Somalia and came to Britain as an asylum seeker. Muktar Said Ibrahim was born in Eritrea in Africa and also came to Britain as an asylum seeker. Manfo Kwaku Asiedu is from Ghana and required an interpreter in court. He was sentenced to jail for 33 years and the judge recommended that Asiedu be deported back to Ghana when he's released.

Is one entitled to question whether it was right that he was able to come to Britain in the first place? I fear that some liberals think it's "racist" to do so.

For the July 21st attempted bomb attacks in London immigration did have a role to play in the events, as the men who wanted to bomb people were asylum seekers who were not born in Britain. As far as the July 7th suicide bomb attacks are concerned, these people were second generation immigrants who carried out the atrocities. But although they might have been born in Britain, they clearly had an absolute contempt for Britain and British democratic values.

Mohammad Sidique Khan was born to Pakistani immigrants who came to Britain. Khan is the man who recorded a vile video message boasting of the attacks in which he said he was a "soldier at war" against Britain. Clearly Mr Khan didn't have a great deal in common with Britain if he felt he was at war with the UK. He may have been born in Britain, but he didn't respect our values or way of life.

Hasib Mir Hussain - the Tavistock Square bomber - was also a second generation immigrant whose parents were of Pakistani origin. Again Mr Hussain didn't respect British values or democracy. He was happy to kill and maim women and children for his warped Islamic extremist views.

I therefore do feel justified in having concerns about our immigration policy in relation to Islamic extremism - even though that point of view probably causes Colin to be extremely angry and to denounce my opinions. The July 7th London bombers were the sons of Pakistani immigrants who came to Britain in large numbers in the 1950s and 60s. The decision back then to open the floodgates to Pakistani immigrants was wrong and misguided in the long-term in my view.

With a bit of foresight the Government back then should have realised that even if the first generation Pakistani immigrants wouldn't want to "go to war with Britain" by carrying out bomb attacks, the second generation immigrants may well want to be "soldiers at war against Britain", in the words of Mohammad Sidique Khan.

In Mr Khan's case he did not want to integrate or conform to British democratic values. He wanted to bomb and maim people. That's what the Government of years gone by should have realised. They were naive if they thought that everything in the longer-term was going to be hunky-dory and happy-clappy and that all the sons and daughters of Pakistani immigrants would integrate wonderfully well with the British way of life.

That sadly has not happened. I'm sure there are some perfectly nice first generation Pakistanis and second generation Pakistanis. But the underlying problem is still there and this is to do with culture - or perhaps more specifically a warped Islamic view of the world. It is not to do with race, it's to do with culture, even though some liberals turn the debate around and insist that it's "racist".

The colour of their skin is not the real issue. You can have white muslims, black muslims or Asian muslims. But there are muslim clerics in this country who have been preaching that bomb attacks are justified and that the reward for religious martyrdom is 72 virgins in paradise.

Muslim cleric Abdullah al-Faisal, to give one example, was recorded telling teenage boys: "When there is a legitimate target, you strike at it. If women and children die, they become collateral damage. Is it permissible to drop bombs on a kaffir nation, even if Muslims live there? It is permissible and the Muslims become martyrs."

(See the link here - muslim cleric tells boys to adopt a "jihad mentality" )

I'm not aware of British Christian priests telling boys that they should murder people and that the reward for their religious martyrdom in carrying out suicide bomb attacks will be virgins in paradise.

It's a fundamental difference in culture, but sadly some liberals seem to believe that highlighting such differences in culture is "racist".

[tony gale's mic]

No, I think it's labelling the actions of a small minority as their "culture" that people (not just liberals, but dare I say it a few in the centre and a little to the right of it too) would call you for a racist for.

British Christian priests may not have told boys they should murder people but I can think of a fair few things a minority have done to boys over the years.

Still part of the culture?

[thenodrog]

When did two wrongs ever make a right tgm?