[Archived] New - Iphone 3gs

[Ewood and I Would]

EIW - Why are you dedicating so much time and effort to criticising the iPhone (or indeed any phone)? If people are happy with what they have then good! Who really cares if there's supposedly better stuff that's out there that people seem ignorant of?

Firslty, it's a slow day and I'm bored, and I like a nice debate

But also I don't like the monster that the "i" thing has become to the point where it has infected culture so much that some people assume everyone has one. Take Top Gear the other day, Clarkson wanted to test how loud his car was so he got his iPhone out and said "There is an app you can get for you phone that lets you check decibel levels". He was talking as if this app was available to everyone, at no point did he say you have to have an iPhone. I've also seen other apps being advertised on TV shows as if we all have the iPhone.

I can accept that like Biro, Hoover and Coke the word "iPod" has become the general term for any mp3 player but what I don't like is having the whole Apple lifstyle shoved down my throat.

I hate Apple's business model (the 'closed loop' tech that ties you into using them for everything from apps to repairs). Imagine if you bought a new Vauxhall Astra and was told it could only be serviced at offical vauxhall garages, that you could only fill up with Vauxhall's branded fuel and you could only ever new parts from Vauxhall as they refused to let any other company work with or for them. No one would accept that, in fact apply Apple's business model to pretty much any other product and said product would fail (unless it was made to look like a translucent jelly-bean and had a neon apple logo on of course).

Finally, I already mentioned that Nokia used to give all it's apps away for free but since the iPhone came along they've set up their own "store" and are now they are charging. So basically Apple are changing the industry for the worse and even though I probably won't get one very phone I look at now is an iPhone clone and personally I don't think that is a good thing.

[Ewood and I Would]

I can now not imagine going back to a PC and can't really understand why anyone would voluntarily choose a PC over a Mac, other than perhaps cost

1) Games

2) 99% of programmes (sorry "apps" to you) on the internet are written for Windows.

3) No need to learn two different systems (work and home)

4) I can work from home, take it to work and I know it will still work on my work PC.

5) Upgradeability (yes I can change my graphics card when Far Cry 3 comes out and not have to buy a whole new unit)

6) Visual Basic (i.e I don't need to apply and sign my name with blood to make my own programmes for Windows)

7) Knowing Windows inside out is a lot more useful then being a Mac expert when it comes to working in IT (as I do).

8) The feeling that I am telling my computer what I want it to do rather than it telling me what I should be doing.

9) The don't look like translucent Jelly Beans (I know it won some stupid design award)

10) Because I'm not an "arty" type or work in media (ergo I'm not a sanctamonious t*sser), who seem to be Apple's target market.

[Ricky]

Ewood and I Would, I'm afraid you lost all credibility when you referred to the Ovistore in the same breath as the app store.

Now I know you're on a wind up. Ovistore has for a long time been slated by Nokia owners, there is very little on there and lots of buggy software. At least I know you're just on the wind up now ;o)

[only2garners]

1) Games Don't play games

2) 99% of programmes (sorry "apps" to you) on the internet are written for Windows.Don't get any programmes from the internet

3) No need to learn two different systems (work and home)I'm retired

4) I can work from home, take it to work and I know it will still work on my work PC. See above

5) Upgradeability (yes I can change my graphics card when Far Cry 3 comes out and not have to buy a whole new unit)See 1. above

6) Visual Basic (i.e I don't need to apply and sign my name with blood to make my own programmes for Windows)Irrelevant to me

7) Knowing Windows inside out is a lot more useful then being a Mac expert when it comes to working in IT (as I do).I don't but there are plenty of jobs for which being a Mac expert is pretty handy, including my son's

8) The feeling that I am telling my computer what I want it to do rather than it telling me what I should be doing.I find that to be exactly the opposite - the mac is far more intuitive

9) The don't look like translucent Jelly Beans (I know it won some stupid design award)Mine doesn't, but it does look beautiful

10) Because I'm not an "arty" type or work in media (ergo I'm not a sanctamonious t*sser), who seem to be Apple's target market.I'm not even a retired arty type

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

Ewood and I would, if there was ever an article to convince you to buy an iphone here you go:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/04/21/iphone_owners_fancied_by_women/

Anyway, for people looking at the iphone3gs, they may also want to consider the HTC desire, it's getting great reviews at the moment. one such here:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/04/06/review_phone_htc_desire/

however their choice of phone to compare it to at the end is very interesting!

[Ewood and I Would]

Ewood and I Would, I'm afraid you lost all credibility when you referred to the Ovistore in the same breath as the app store.

Now I know you're on a wind up. Ovistore has for a long time been slated by Nokia owners, there is very little on there and lots of buggy software. At least I know you're just on the wind up now ;o)

Eh? You have PROVED my point Ricky. Before Ovistore, Nokia had a site where anyone could upload and download their apps for free, and it was open source.

Since the sucess of the Apple iPhone and it's charged apps that you can only get from them, Nokia have now tried to copy it.

I'm glad the Ovistore is crap and hope it fails as their previous free and non-Apple inspired system was fine!

[Ewood and I Would]

only2garners, remeber my post was in response to you saying...

"can't really understand why anyone would voluntarily choose a PC over a Mac"

What you meant is...

"can't really understand why anyone who is retired, has a Mac savvy son to give them support, doesn't like gaming or programming would voluntarily choose a PC over a Mac"

[only2garners]

only2garners, remeber my post was in response to you saying...

"can't really understand why anyone would voluntarily choose a PC over a Mac"

What you meant is...

"can't really understand why anyone who is retired, has a Mac savvy son to give them support, doesn't like gaming or programming would voluntarily choose a PC over a Mac"

I guess what I meant was that anyone who was using a computer as a straightforward end user would be daft to choose a PC over a Mac, in my opinion. I don't see what being retired has to do with it, other than I don't have to use a different system at work. I'm still fully active with a number of organisations which means I use a computer to at least the same level I did when I was working. And by the way, although my son is Mac savvy, I haven't needed any user support from him for years - that's one of my points - I don't need it.

[Ewood and I Would]

I guess what I meant was that anyone who was using a computer as a straightforward end user would be daft to choose a PC over a Mac, in my opinion. I don't see what being retired has to do with it, other than I don't have to use a different system at work. I'm still fully active with a number of organisations which means I use a computer to at least the same level I did when I was working. And by the way, although my son is Mac savvy, I haven't needed any user support from him for years - that's one of my points - I don't need it.

OK don't want to digress much further as this is an iPhone thread, but there no such thing as a "straight forward end user" people use computers far all manners of reasons. I'm a gamer so a Mac is not an option, my mum (also retired BTW) just wants to use the internet and occasionally MS Word so there's not much that can 'go wrong' with that on a PC, someone who worked in the media and did a lot of video production would probably opt for an Apple. Besides, Apple CEO Steve Jobs said this about the iPhone's sales

“Customers are voting and the iPhone is winning”

Therefore by his own logic Windows is "winning" in the OS market (and by a bigger margin with less competitors as well).

I mentioned your retirement because you used it as reasons against my list of why I prefer a PC over a mac remember?...I know they say you start to lose your memory when you get older but still

Anyway back to the iPhone, BlueWhiteDynamite if a girl is attracted to you because of your mobile phone brand and sees it as a sign of wealth, then I get the feeling I know the sort of girl that is and I'm fine leaving them to you lot LOL. To paraphrase Charlie Brooker, if you think your choice of phone says something about your personality then don't worry, you haven't got one.

[only2garners]

I mentioned your retirement because you used it as reasons against my list of why I prefer a PC over a mac remember?...I know they say you start to lose your memory when you get older but still

I know full well that why you mentioned retirement I only mentioned it as an answer to your random list of 10 reasons why one shouldn't choose a Mac.

[Tris]

Anyway, for people looking at the iphone3gs, they may also want to consider the HTC desire, it's getting great reviews at the moment. one such here:

http://www.reghardwa...one_htc_desire/

That is the beginning and the end of it for me. Before this thread went completely barmy, a simple question was asked about the iphone 3GS vs other currently available phones.

The HTC Desire is the first handset to be able to legitimately claim that it can challenge the iphone 3GS on every front. In my opinion it beats it on every front bar one (apps) - but that is my opinion because I have waited 6 months for the Desire and in the 10 days since mine was delivered even my high expectations have been surpassed.

I'd say to posters like Eddie, Ricky and El Tombro - the Desire has only been shipping for 3 weeks. There aren't even dummy models in many phone shops. You can't possibly know how it compares to anything until you pick it up and try the thing. If you then choose to pay a 100% premium month in month out to keep your iphones, then that's your choice!!

I'll leave the final word to the reviewer in BWDs link - "the Desire is the one to go for {...} It beats the iPhone in terms of its phone spec while matching it for just about everything else"

[Ewood and I Would]

Verdict

RH Editor's Choice

The HTC Desire is a terrific smart phone that improves on the already high standard of the Legend with its bigger screen and increased processing power. It has to sit above its near-twin the Google Nexus One too, and does so thanks to the Sense interface and trackpad. Unless you’re an Android purist, the Desire is the one to go for, as its roughly the same price. It beats the iPhone in terms of its phone spec while matching it for just about everything else unless you're married to iTunes for your media.

Sadly, I fear this fact will pass many people by, added to fact HTC won't use La Rue in their adverts or pay the X-Factor to promote their apps on their show. Oh well, it is in the hot seat at the mo for being my next phone. I've got about 6 months to run yet so I'll get to see how it pans out. The new Windows 7 phones look like they could be preety decent and are getting good early reviews but the menus look a bit messy to me from the vids I've seen so far.

So as of now, my next phone will be the desire. I'll track the user experience through forums though in the meantime...

[Glenn]

Yes I know but seeing as the latest iPhone is always a year or two behind other phones in terms of what they give you (see Hughesey' post about the next model and most of the features have been on other phones for ages) it is still pretty relevant and funny.

You're basing that on a couple of functions that most USERS didn't feel they missed too much (I'm sure Apple only added cut and paste to shut the anti-apple brigade up, the why the UI flow means it's nowhere near as useful as it is on the PC). Multitasking I can see the use for, but rather than implement it on hardware that couldn't cope (something that happens all too often on Symbian and WinMob phones) they've waited until they are able to provide the hardware to cope.

apps, you mean those things that have been available for free for years on the Symbian OS?

-snip-

In short, Apple didn't invent apps and they're not the only company to provide them now. The real difference is other companies let anyone develop apps and they WERE all free.

What utter rubbish. There have been paid apps for Symbian for years and not all phone OS developers have been kind enough to give the SDK away free to ANYONE who wants to develop apps like Apple have. The one difference with Apple (which is mirrored by console development) is they put a little quality control on the software that can be published under their umbrella. The end result is I don't spend my life rescuing none tech savvy friends and family from either badly designed or malicious software, like I do on a PC.

I say 'were' because before Ovistore came along Nokia used to have a site with hundreds of apps on and all of them were free. I wonder who gave them the idea of setting up a "store" and charging for them???

Probably something do to with the fact there has been commercial software ever since we moved from valves to microchips. As a developer, I often choose to give my software away for free, but I sure as hell don't want to be told I have to. As soon as that happens, I'll just find a new platform to develop for.

I would accept your notion in relation to the iPhone if..

* Apple's marketing machine wasn't so brutal. When the iPhone came out it must have been the most advertised unit in history, stick the latest Jo Whiley Live Lounge track on there and show lots of pretty (but attention grabbing) colours and shove it down our throats every ad break. Bottom line, if the iPhone was really as good as people think it is, why the need top advertise so much? Surely it would have sold itself. Take the old Nokia 3210 (an it's variants, remember snake?) I can't remember much, if any, adevrts for that and yet it sold milions and millions..because it was simply a good phone (at the time).

So, apple are good at selling stuff. People don't have the time to evaluate the hundreds of phones available to them. How many people bought the 3210 because of careful research of all the available options and how many went "I've heard nokias are good and that a pretty good feature to price ratio", how many less well know, but technically better phones did they ignore ?

* There would be no need to lie - if Apple said "you know all those things on your phone you never use because it's too complicated? Well Apple have made it 'fun' and easy top use now, isn't that great" I would have said fair play. However, their first advert for iPhone 1 strongly suggested that the Internet was only available on the iPhone which was false. They did exactly the same thing with apps. Again if the iPhone is great on it's own and is better at doing this stuff than other phones, why not be honest and say that instead of pretending certain feature are "unique" to Apple?

I've always seen the adverts as advocating how much *easier* it is, and frankly, I agree, it is. I've had a web browser on my phones since the days of WAP (remember that but the iPhone is the first one it's really been easy to use on. See previous comments about bleeding edge vs it-just-works.

* The amount of pointless apps that use the oscillator (movement sensor) just because they can, many of which my friends have and tell me they are cool. Like a colleague who wasted 5 minutes of my life showing how he could his iPhone into a "lighter" (it was just a onscreen flame that moved as you tilted the handset) but to him this was the pinnacle of human invention. Thinking an app that has no practical function is cool, jut shows what mentality some people have.

Great, you've just proven that people can be pleased by shiney but pointless toys and Apple give them a way to be happy. Should we remove all the websites that have no practical function off the internet? I too boggle at people impressed by iPint and the light sabre apps, but thats hardly apples fault. It's like blaming Tim Berners Lee for FarmVille.

don't get me wrong, there are people on here (Kamy100 and Paul) whose posts tell me that they did buy the phone for the right reasons but there are far more iPhone owners who make excuses for the iPhones downside (i.e who needs a decent camera when you can buy one etc) but the rave on about it's good points.

Finally, something I agree on. The blatant fanboi-ism of some Apple zealots does those of us who like their tech, but don't want to marry it, a bad name.

[Blue n White Rover]

Got my Blackberry today. Nice neat little phone, Internet is just as quick as my iPhone 3G. Camera quality is great and also has flash. Light as anything and comes with a smart leather pouch.

600mins

Unlimited Text

Unlimited Data

18months free Internet USB Dongle

Free Bluetooth Headset

Free In-car charger

Free 2GB Memory card

All for just £25 a month.

If anyones upgrading and get offered a crap deal first hand, then ask them to put you through to the retentions department, who usually give you a miles better deal.

[Tom]

Ha Glen well age gets to us all.

Although I wouldn't claim the iPhone is error free, otherwise Apple wouldn't have set this up...

..and Google wouldn't have this autotyped due to it be a popular search

My friend in fact cut me off the other day and blamed in on not understanding her new phone (which is an iPhone).

The google thing is irrelevent, this is my favourite example:

I presume it's a quote from something but wither way its brilliantly random

Anyway for me the iPhone 3Gs is easily the best phone I've ever had and is a spectacular success in what it tries to be.

In honesty there will always be 'better' phones that do more if you know how but the iPhone does everything most would want in a simple way and stylish way.

I've never used one of the HTC phones and have no doubt they are very good but I have no interest due to how happy I am with the iPhone.

That being said I don't like the look of the new version.

[BuckyRover]

It's the bloody inference that I don't know there are other options out there. I was put off buying for so long because of techies telling me how much it COULDN'T do.

I thought the HTC Touch was very poor compared to the 3GS.

[Ewood and I Would]

oops, double post. see below

[Ewood and I Would]

You're basing that on a couple of functions that most USERS didn't feel they missed too much (I'm sure Apple only added cut and paste to shut the anti-apple brigade up, the why the UI flow means it's nowhere near as useful as it is on the PC). Multitasking I can see the use for, but rather than implement it on hardware that couldn't cope (something that happens all too often on Symbian and WinMob phones) they've waited until they are able to provide the hardware to cope.

I would say that of all the new features and multi-tasking, these three...

Front facing camera

Access to the battery

FM transmitter

..are pretty 'useful' to a lot of people and stuff that Apple could have included before. The front facing camera is necessary for video calling for example which to some people is important (although expensive). Video calling isn't a small feature, it was quite a big innovation in the moile phone world and has been about since around 2003. No doubt the latest ads will tell us how great video to video calls are on the iPhone now and it will become a feature with extra apps etc etc... Access to battery is just plain fundemental IMO and most phones have a handy fm radio in these days.

Why has it only just got a video camera? Because US-centric Jobs couldn't be bothered before seeing as his American customers couldn't benefit due to Apple only making their phone available on one network (they really hate competition don't they) and it's one that doesn't support video calling.

Anyway, if these three are "hardly used" by the next generation of iPhone owners then you'll turn out to be right I guess. I however, think buyers will like and use the new (to Apple anyway) features.

I guess what I'm saying is most iPhone owners saythe features of other phones they don't have they don't need; that is until Apple bring out the next model with the features on and then we here how much better and great the iPhone's version is over yours of said feature. Take shooting videos, you couldn't do it on the first iPhone when every other phone had it for years and now you can on the later models it's become the focus of their latest advert (the baby video).

As for multi-tasking, the next iPhone won't be true multitasking, it's using a fudged way of giving the ability to do two things at once but I bet you Apple will advertise it and true mutli-tasking...and imply it was their idea.

What utter rubbish. There have been paid apps for Symbian for years and not all phone OS developers have been kind enough to give the SDK away free to ANYONE who wants to develop apps like Apple have.

I never said you couldn't get Symbian apps people were charging for, I said Nokia had a dedicated page for apps, wallpapers, ringtones etc were everything was free (sharing culture) which they have now replaced with Ovistore (consumer culture) which is a change of position I don't like and one enncouraged by Steve Jobs. Apple only give you their SDK because they know it is only them that can profit from any work you do.

The one difference with Apple (which is mirrored by console development) is they put a little quality control on the software that can be published under their umbrella. The end result is I don't spend my life rescuing none tech savvy friends and family from either badly designed or malicious software, like I do on a PC.

There's two ways of looking at it though, you see the "quality control" angle whereas I see the "profit control" angle. Although what you say is valid, it does also mean Apple can tie their customers into constantly giving them cash because you have to do everything through them. Again, I can see the debate when it comes to software but when you consider things like the encased battery and when songs bought on iTunes could onlly be played on Apple products you can't seriosuly argue that we can't be trusted to change our own battery or with their music, the "quality control" argument doesn't work there.

But on software, insisting you have to check eveything that you will allow to be used on your kit may help quality but it seriosuly limits choice/output. How many programmes are available for Mac and how many on Windows? I can think of practically any task and someone will have written a small app for windows to do it, or script that does it for it. For example, I needed a list of hundreds of files and folders in a diretcory into a spreadsheet, a quick search on google and I had a little programme called LS which did it for me. The tools that Apple put out are good at what they do but if the tool doesn't exist then you're screwed.

Probably something do to with the fact there has been commercial software ever since we moved from valves to microchips. As a developer, I often choose to give my software away for free, but I sure as hell don't want to be told I have to. As soon as that happens, I'll just find a new platform to develop for.

Again you've missed the point of my Nokia example. The site was called Nokia MOSH and this sums what was up nicely...

"Still, it is a bit of a shame. MOSH had real potential and was in some ways reminiscent of the early Internet and BBS culture – just a load of interested mobile geeks given a way of sharing their stuff with minimal corporate intrusion.

It's not about being told to give away your software for free, it's just creating a culture of free apps & sharing that people write just because they enjoy it. There used to a rating system and a thread on each download page and all you had to do was check both to avoid anything dodgy. Not that there ever was, they were criticised for having pirated software on there but most people like that don't they?

Maybe I just don't like a world where the word "app" has become synonomous with Apple and where most people think BBS is "Be Back Soon" in text speak or a sexual fettish.

So, apple are good at selling stuff. People don't have the time to evaluate the hundreds of phones available to them. How many people bought the 3210 because of careful research of all the available options and how many went "I've heard nokias are good and that a pretty good feature to price ratio", how many less well know, but technically better phones did they ignore?

You've forget the point I was answering Glenn, which was that if I'd considered if the iPhone was so popular because it was just good and not the marketing. What you have just said reinforces my point on the issue and I touched on the difference between the iPhone selling well because of advertising and "Apple being good at selling stuff" whereas the Nokia was more word of mouth and recommendations. My point being that Apple's sales have more to do with advertising that just being a good phone (not that it isn't a good phone, that isn't my issue).

I've always seen the adverts as advocating how much *easier* it is, and frankly, I agree, it is. I've had a web browser on my phones since the days of WAP (remember that but the iPhone is the first one it's really been easy to use on. See previous comments about bleeding edge vs it-just-works.

"On the iPhone you can...."

"On the iPhone you can...."

"On the iPhone you can...."

That to me hints at exclusivity, of course it doesn't rule out other phones being able to do the same task (whatever it is) but IMO it is ambiguous. As I said, if they just said it was easier on iPhone I'd respect them more.

Besides, Apple have had two iPhones ads banned for being misleading. One for speeding up the Internet browsing in their advert (whilst saying "fast" numorous times) and another for saying all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone (when it doesn't support Java or Flash.)

So if you like Flash and Java content, the iPhone doesn't "just work". The N95 at the time also had full internet access and the benefit of using the mobile or full versions of site where both where available, depending on what you were doing often the mobile version was better anyway (i.e if you just need the info), but you had the choice. I remember a few spoof videos at the time pointing this out to Apple.

Great, you've just proven that people can be pleased by shiney but pointless toys and Apple give them a way to be happy. Should we remove all the websites that have no practical function off the internet? I too boggle at people impressed by iPint and the light sabre apps, but thats hardly apples fault. It's like blaming Tim Berners Lee for FarmVille.

I have never heard someone say that their computer brand is cool because of farmville the same way I'm told the iPhone brand is cool because you can pour a digitized pint of beer away or go to find a geo-taggged old shoe is some bizarre 'treasure' hunting game. By the way Apple actually want money for that pint glass app!!!

Also, Tim Berner's Lee doesn't approve every website uploaded to the net does he? I thought we agreed that Apple have a closed loop software policy and now you are disolving their responsibility for bad apps on their appstore? You can't have it both ways, either they approve the appstore products or they are open source and anyone is free to upload.

So in fact, it's nothing like the teneous relationship relationship between Tim Berners Lee and a Facebook app. In fact, Facebook and their apps would have been a better example as like Apple they approve a lot of poop for their social netwroking site.

Finally, something I agree on. The blatant fanboi-ism of some Apple zealots does those of us who like their tech, but don't want to marry it, a bad name.

Finally, on the subject of Apps, what the hell is this about???

http://itunes.apple.com/app/gottago-fake-calls-and-mms/id287418773?mt=8

An app that rings you up if you're in the middle of bad date so you can get away, it's not free either!! After reading the article BlueWhiteDynamite posted earlier, I realise you iPhone users are popular with the ladies so you're constantly on dates but how about not using and iPhonee app and simply trying not being a t*sser? Seriously, who would use that let alone pay for that?

Again this is on Apple's own site and I must assume have been signed off by them.

[Hughesy]

The fake caller app is free...its on my iphone & iv never paid for an app!

EAIW - Get over it, people like the iphone - its very user friendly & its becoming more & more popular - thats just the way it is! The app store is great & allows you to change your phone all the time. Yes some features they didnt create or use at first - but nobody gives 2 hoots about that!!!

[Ricky]

most phones have a handy fm radio in these days.

Not quite sure what this comment has to do with the fact that the new Iphone is going to have an FM TRANSMITTER in it. It's got bugger all to do with having a 'handy FM radio' in it.

[Ewood and I Would]

Seriously Ricky out of that Huge post that was on the only thing you could pick me up on... Besides the iPhone doesn't even have an inbuilt FM radio so you've actually helped point out another thing that Apple don't bther with.

[Ricky]

To be fair I didn't read the whole post, just got as far as that mistake right at the start and replied.

I have radio on my iPhone. I listen to talksport on my way to work with no problems at all.

[Ewood and I Would]

An inbuilt FM radio, who's not reading now?

[Hughesy]

An inbuilt FM radio, who's not reading now?

But their are multiple apps that allow FM radio, aswell as world radio to work - whats your point exactly??

[Ewood and I Would]

But their are multiple apps that allow FM radio, aswell as world radio to work - whats your point exactly??

The FM receiever in the iPhone has been locked out, any app that let's you hear radio is doing so through the 3G network, hence is using up uneccessary network bandwidth (and probably costing you money).

As for my point, there wasn't one. It was Ricky who took one line from my post and decided to concentrate on it. If you read the post it came from, the radio was a minor point which I wasn't making that much of.