[Archived] David Hoilett

[den]

We have been more direct than when Kean first took the reigns, yes, but still nowhere near as much as the nadir under Sam, and apart from lumping free-kicks in on Saturday in a desperate measure to claw back a point the football has been much better to watch (if not as effective - thus far - at grinding out results).

Much better to watch?

Whatever, there's no debate that Kean has got more from Junior than his predecessor did.

Yes there is a debate. Junior's improvement, IMO, is down to Junior's undoubted talent. Talent that I used to champion before Kean got anywhere near the managers job.

Had Sam been here we'd still be watching the ball get played up to EH Diouf just inside the oppo half, him going to ground, winning a free-kick and Robbo launching into the mixer. Not pretty, but depending on how your luck is, can be effective. Was never going to get the best from Junior playing that way though. That's not meant as a criticism of Sam, just how it was/is IMO.

No, of course it isn't.

You still haven't explained how Junior has managed to play so well recently, even though we have been lumping it forward much more? Good players get the ball down and play. Hoilett can do that.

[den]

You said Hoilett was too young to make a serious impact on the side.

I said Hoilett wasn't producing displays that were enough to keep him in the side. Do you disagree with that? Difficult for you I guess when you didn't ever go to watch him. I can tell you, as will others who watched him regularly, that he didn't have the end product to his play. Playing him every game under those conditions wasn't on. He needed to be brought along slowly - which he was.

The guy didn't start a single league game under Allardyce this season. He was mainly a second-half sub or not used at all. That's not doing the "right thing", because he's clearly proven he's ready to start.

He hasn't started a lot of games under Kean either. Right way to go.

That's true. I've been in a cave, with my eyes closed and my fingers in my ears.

No, you've been sat behind a computer screen watching via a dodgy stream. Not the best way to see what's happening in a game.

I'll leave it there. You're just as entitled to your views as anyone else.

[Hughesy]

Life is so straightforward in Hughesworld.

Meanwhile in the real world, contract offers have two sides. What if the employee wants to hold off for a couple of months till he knows what level of employment they'll be able to offer? I suspect most sensible employees - at his age - would wait.

What would you do if your employer was going down the pan?

Yes life is so straightforward when the player himself has already said how he wants to stay and repay the faith Rovers showed in him from 11 years old.....not rocket science Einstein

[Tom]

No way Hoilett would sign when we look like we could be headed for the drop, should have struck back in January (when those quotes were originally made I think)

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Yes life is so straightforward when the player himself has already said how he wants to stay and repay the faith Rovers showed in him from 11 years old.....not rocket science Einstein

Ultimately it isn't the player that necogiates the contract - but his agent. Nobody knows what his agent is saying - also at this moment in time necogiations would be a little tricky when we ask him to put a relegation clause in

To be honest this should have been sorted months ago - at the same time Jones and Samba were sorted. But again - we don't know what is going on behind closed doors.

Lets not forget it is the club (or used to be) that necogiates contracts not the manager (who used to only make recomendations). Whatever is going on in the background - Kean putting pressure on Hoilett to sign a new contract via the press would be totally counter-productive.

[MarkBRFC71]

Much better to watch?

Than 90% of the toss Sam served up? Undoubtedly. We might not be grinding out the results, and perhaps Karma is kicking our asses now for the luck we enjoyed last season in finishing 10th, but the games - on the whole - have been more enjoyable despite results.

Yes there is a debate. Junior's improvement, IMO, is down to Junior's undoubted talent. Talent that I used to champion before Kean got anywhere near the managers job.

It's about his talent, but it's also down to the subtle difference in the way he's been employed under the respective managers, and did it ever cross your mind that Kean might just have had a positive impact on Junior behind the scenes? I know plenty on here are desperate to dog him at every turn, and god knows I don't think he's the right man for us but he might well have helped Junior's progress.

No, of course it isn't.

You still haven't explained how Junior has managed to play so well recently, even though we have been lumping it forward much more? Good players get the ball down and play. Hoilett can do that.

See above.

Fact: he's playing better under Kean than Sam. No debate needed.

[jim mk2]

Than 90% of the toss Sam served up? Undoubtedly. We might not be grinding out the results, and perhaps Karma is kicking our asses now for the luck we enjoyed last season in finishing 10th, but the games - on the whole - have been more enjoyable despite results.

Apart from the 3 wins under Kean none of the matches have been "enjoyable". The football has by and large been dire and the tactics and selections confusing to say the least. The West Ham match was one of the worst I have seen in 50 years plus watching Rovers. There's no luck in the good results Sam consistently achieved and the bad results under Kean are not down to bad luck but poor management.

You have been proved wrong with your non-arguments about Sam time and again. With the club in freefall since you were calling for his dismissal I'm surprised you have the gall to show your face on here.

With regards to Hoilett with his talent he was always going to make the breakthrough sooner or later. he wasn't ready when Sam was in charge. Perhaps you might like to give Sam some credit for giving youngsters such as Jones and Olsson their chances ?

On the other hand hell might freeze over ....

[rebelmswar]

Apart from the 3 wins under Kean none of the matches have been "enjoyable". The football has by and large been dire and the tactics and selections confusing to say the least. The West Ham match was one of the worst I have seen in 50 years plus watching Rovers. There's no luck in the good results Sam consistently achieved and the bad results under Kean are not down to bad luck but poor management.

You have been proved wrong with your non-arguments about Sam time and again. With the club in freefall since you were calling for his dismissal I'm surprised you have the gall to show your face on here.

With regards to Hoilett with his talent he was always going to make the breakthrough sooner or later. he wasn't ready when Sam was in charge. Perhaps you might like to give Sam some credit for giving youngsters such as Jones and Olsson their chances ?

On the other hand hell might freeze over ....

As hideously wrong as his opinion may be he is allowed it an should not hide his face.

However, Sam did not get much praise for his moulding of Jones or Martin. I think The Notorious JNR would have broken through this season regardless.

Still surprised that Kean hasn't labled him the new Mimms.

[John]

Than 90% of the toss Sam served up? Undoubtedly. We might not be grinding out the results, and perhaps Karma is kicking our asses now for the luck we enjoyed last season in finishing 10th, but the games - on the whole - have been more enjoyable despite results.

I have been to most home/away games since the start of the year and, for me, would say the games have not been more enjoyable - there perhaps has been more goals however usually these have been for the opposition.

Kean looks clueless on the touchline and stands there like a lemon for most of the time - Jensen also looks lost (does he actually do anything!?).

We have looked a sinking ship in the last few months even though the last couple of games have seen the team looking more up for it.

[G Somerset Rover]

Kean looks clueless on the touchline and stands there like a lemon for most of the time - Jensen also looks lost (does he actually do anything!?).

No doubt Jonny Jensen will be receive a bumper new deal before Junior earns one.

[OJRovers]

Does anyone know what country Hoilett is going to decide to play for Internationally?

I noticed that Wolves winger Jarvis is in the England squad, surely they would have to have a look at DH sooner or later.

I'd probably rather him play for Jamaica or Canada just so he doesn't get chatting to the clowns in the england squad who will tap him up to move!

[John]

This was reported about a month ago

Blackburn starlet Junior Hoilett has revealed he would be interested in playing for England.

[speeeeeeedie]

Nothing revealing here but an article on him; Hoilett likes paying football.

[Hughesy]

he wasn't ready when Sam was in charge. Perhaps you might like to give Sam some credit for giving youngsters such as Jones and Olsson their chances ?

Sam got plenty of credit for giving youngsters a chance.

He failed on Hoilett....the talent is obvious however he was never given much of a chance under Sam as he didnt fit his lump it into the mixer style.

[MarkBRFC71]

Apart from the 3 wins under Kean none of the matches have been "enjoyable". The football has by and large been dire and the tactics and selections confusing to say the least. The West Ham match was one of the worst I have seen in 50 years plus watching Rovers. There's no luck in the good results Sam consistently achieved and the bad results under Kean are not down to bad luck but poor management.

You have been proved wrong with your non-arguments about Sam time and again. With the club in freefall since you were calling for his dismissal I'm surprised you have the gall to show your face on here.

With regards to Hoilett with his talent he was always going to make the breakthrough sooner or later. he wasn't ready when Sam was in charge. Perhaps you might like to give Sam some credit for giving youngsters such as Jones and Olsson their chances ?

On the other hand hell might freeze over ....

Oh whoopee, Meldrew's back.

The football hasn't been any less dire than under Sam, granted the results have. Results under Sam were teetering above average, under Kean they've been downright poor. This stage last season we enjoyed some good-sized slices of luck to finish a creditable 10th, this season we're not getting any.

Sacking Sam would have been a good decision IF - and it's a big 'IF' - we'd appointed a proper manager to take us forward and no some no-mark coach. Martin Jol was clear favourite at one point - for me that would have represented a leap forward from Sam. However, if I or anyone else would have known at the time that Kean was Venky's answer, we'd have taken our chances with Allardyce (as dull as it might have been) and potted him in Summer. Having said that, there's nothing to suggest that we might not be in the same boat we are now with him here - it's all supposition, assumption and guesswork.

And I guess you've either forgotten or your senility's kicked in again, as I have, quite clearly and on several occasions, stated that Sam's record in bringing through the youngsters was the high point of his reign. However, I still think he didn't really have a plan for Junior, nor did he really fit his system as well as Diouf did.

Out of interest, assuming we stay up and pot Kean who would you want as manager?

I have been to most home/away games since the start of the year and, for me, would say the games have not been more enjoyable - there perhaps has been more goals however usually these have been for the opposition.

Kean looks clueless on the touchline and stands there like a lemon for most of the time - Jensen also looks lost (does he actually do anything!?).

We have looked a sinking ship in the last few months even though the last couple of games have seen the team looking more up for it.

Each to his own, however I agree entirely about Kean. For me though there is no point in sacking him now - more upheaval will do more harm than good at this stage and as you say the players seem up for it and together.

[Mattyblue]

Mark, you don't 'luckily' finish anywhere but your final position in the league after 38 games. Would we be 'unlucky' if we went down?

On Hoilett, can anybody explain why any Tom, Dick or Harry that wanted a new contract in January got it, but one of the club's most exciting (and valuable) players gets publicly told to 'concentrate on his football' instead?

More madcap thinking form the once highly competent BRFC.

[jim mk2]

.

The football hasn't been any less dire than under Sam, granted the results have. Results under Sam were teetering above average, under Kean they've been downright poor. This stage last season we enjoyed some good-sized slices of luck to finish a creditable 10th, this season we're not getting any.

Out of interest, assuming we stay up and pot Kean who would you want as manager?

The "football" under Kean has been awful with no sense of leadership or direction but that's irrelevant anyway as winning matches is all that matters which you don't seem to understand. I don't recall any luck last season only jolly good football nous in how to win 3 points when it matters. What does "teetering above average" mean - it doesn't make sense.

Excuse me if I continue to rubbish your contributions on here but anyone who can cheerfully admit as you did to prefer Rovers to get relegated and watch "better football" in the lower divisions cannot be taken seriously.

[Amo]

I said Hoilett wasn't producing displays that were enough to keep him in the side. Do you disagree with that? Difficult for you I guess when you didn't ever go to watch him. I can tell you, as will others who watched him regularly, that he didn't have the end product to his play. Playing him every game under those conditions wasn't on. He needed to be brought along slowly - which he was.

And I'll refer to Aaron Lennon - AGAIN. He was panned for being all pace and no end product. But since he's had a chance to play week in, week out, he's picked up his game and become a better all-round player. That's all Hoilett needed, that chance to prove himself. Something he got under Kean that he had little hope for with the old manager.

He hasn't started a lot of games under Kean either. Right way to go.

He's started 9/12 league games for Kean.

And started 2/16 league games for Sam.

Some difference.

No, you've been sat behind a computer screen watching via a dodgy stream. Not the best way to see what's happening in a game.

It hasn't done much for your opinion.

I'll leave it there. You're just as entitled to your views as anyone else.

Awww. Thanks, poppy!

[AggyBlue]

Sam got plenty of credit for giving youngsters a chance.

He failed on Hoilett....the talent is obvious however he was never given much of a chance under Sam as he didnt fit his lump it into the mixer style.

Come off it, Junior was crap in his first half dozen appearances, he didn't deserve more playing time than he got.

[MarkBRFC71]

The "football" under Kean has been awful with no sense of leadership or direction but that's irrelevant anyway as winning matches is all that matters which you don't seem to understand. I don't recall any luck last season only jolly good football nous in how to win 3 points when it matters. What does "teetering above average" mean - it doesn't make sense.

Excuse me if I continue to rubbish your contributions on here but anyone who can cheerfully admit as you did to prefer Rovers to get relegated and watch "better football" in the lower divisions cannot be taken seriously.

I'm sure you've got it ready and waiting but remind me where I said that, and 'cheerfully'?

Oh, and you're not in a position to 'rubbish' anything, merely to offer an alternative viewpoint which is no less right or wrong than mine. Something it seems you just can't accept without recourse to childish behaviour, or behaving like a stereotypical angry little man. Grow up.

EDIT: oh, and you never answered my question - who would you appoint?

[tony gale's mic]

Come off it, Junior was crap in his first half dozen appearances, he didn't deserve more playing time than he got.

Exactly. He had pretty much no end product when he played under Sam. Maybe he didn't start that many games but he got quite a lot of game time as a sub which was a fair call given his amount of experience.

Also under Sam this season Diouf was widely thought to be one of our best players until the sacking so he got preferred down the right.

Young players can improve over the course of a season - hardly the biggest surprise in the world. Nor, for that matter, is Topman still trying to pin down any sort of blame on the old manager.

[Amo]

Exactly. He had pretty much no end product when he played under Sam. Maybe he didn't start that many games but he got quite a lot of game time as a sub which was a fair call given his amount of experience.

I'm sorry, I forgot how many top-class wingers we had keeping Hoilett out of the team. No wonder he didn't play more often.

Also under Sam this season Diouf was widely thought to be one of our best players until the sacking so he got preferred down the right.

Thank God he's gone then, because Hoilett is the future.

Nor, for that matter, is Topman still trying to pin down any sort of blame on the old manager.

Take the point on its own merits, instead of the usual 'Sam hater' ######. It's getting old.

[tony gale's mic]

I'm sorry, I forgot how many top-class wingers we had keeping Hoilett out of the team. No wonder he didn't play more often.

Thank God he's gone then, because Hoilett is the future.

Take the point on its own merits, instead of the usual 'Sam hater' ######. It's getting old.

He may not be top class but the general consensus was that up until November or so Diouf had been one of our best players this season. Absolutely no reason to dislodge him from the team with someone who, up until that point, had shown a fair amount of pace but almost no end product.

I would take the point on its merits if it had any.

[Amo]

He may not be top class but the general consensus was that up until November or so Diouf had been one of our best players this season. Absolutely no reason to dislodge him from the team with someone who, up until that point, had shown a fair amount of pace but almost no end product.

Let's not get carried away here.

Diouf had been hit & miss. For every game he put in a shift, there were just as many when he'd slow down play and spend most of the game playing the pantomime gangsta. Anyone could see our team needed a real injection of pace, but Hoilett was constantly overlooked aside from the odd 15minute cameo.

I would take the point on its merits if it had any.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[tony gale's mic]

Let's not get carried away here.

Diouf had been hit & miss. For every game he put in a shift, there were just as many when he'd slow down play and spend most of the game playing the pantomime gangsta. Anyone could see our team needed a real injection of pace, but Hoilett was constantly overlooked aside from the odd 15minute cameo.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Hoillett was also looked at in training aswell. He appeared in TWENTY THREE league games under Sam the previous season. That's over half, hardly just the "odd 15 minute cameo".

Before Sam got sacked he'd appeared in a further ten league games upto that point, again he'd made in appearance in over half of the games under Sam then. Plenty of playing time. Diouf for the first few months of this season was consistently putting in a good performances and got a lot of praise from the fans who were often quick to criticise him when he was poor, although your description of him does match his overall career at the club.

Your description of the chances Hoilett got under Sam are fundamentally false since he appeared in half of the games under Sam since his return from St Pauli. Even though he didnt start that many, one would have expected a few more flashes of inspiration than what he eventually produced.