[Archived] David Hoilett

[BuckyRover]

Tbh he has probably plucked that figure out of the air and has described it as "high" to wind us up.

[Hughesy]

Its obvious thats what is causing the problem - just wish we could get it much higher than £15m.

£15m isnt too far away from the sort of offers we could expect if he could bag 10 goals this season.

£20m+ id be much easier with!

[Emge]

Well. We are not really in the position of negotiating with him. He can demand whatever he wants, or else he wont sign the contract =/ And then we are really f****!

The big clubs are aware of him and I highly doubt he'll be here for much longer, even if he signs a 5-year contract or something! So its really about how much money we can get for him, and sure enough 15 mill is less than we could expect in the near future. I would say more like 20+

But give him a nice fat salary that he cant resist! He is easily one of our absolute key players, no doubt, and we need to keep him as long as we possibly can!

Get it sorted NOW!!!

[J*B]

For god sakes, give him his 35k a week; with 10k on top of that, in a 5 year deal, and give him his £15million release fee.

But make sure somewhere, it says that the release fee only comes into effect in the final two years of his contract. To stop him worrying, add a immediate relegation release fee of £6million, that way he doesn't have to worry that he'll end up playing in the Championship for two years if we where to go down this season.

Surely we'd all be happy with that?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Why would he be happy with it? That'd mean he has to stay here for 3 years. I agree with others who have said he holds the power with his contract terminating so soon. If £15m is all we can get then so be it. Its the sickening side of modern football that small clubs aren't even paid properly for their players these days.

[Andy]

Won't happen due to age.

It will if he moves abroad.

[Rover_Shaun]

Maybe Kean was on venus time when he said Hoillet would sign within a day

[DE.]

£15M would be a very low release clause and I'd be a bit gutted at that. I'd rather offer him a little more wages in an effort to up the release clause to £20 - £25M. Venky's were willing to offer PJ £80k a week so the budget is there... we've bought some players but we've also let go of Santa Cruz, JJ, Andrews, Benjani... and a few others. I'm sure we could accomodate a higher wage for Junior - if it meant him signing on with a much higher or no release clause I'd do it. But I guess it's up to Venky's to decide whether such an option is viable.

[Damien]

I am pretty disappointed that junior wants such a low release fee! He must know how the fans felt after the jones debacle... But football is all about money these days. I just hope venkys and Kean manage to convince him to up the release fee!

[Kenwoo]

The amount of work the club has put into Junior over the years in terms of getting his work permit, giving him a chance in the Premier League etc and he plays hard ball over a new deal. Hate football sometimes.

[thenodrog]

I thought he had a nightmare myself. Yes his attacking play was good, but he left Givet exposed all game long. It's all well and good ghosting past the full back, but you're worthless as a teammate if you don't track said fullback back when not in possession.

That opinuion is difficult for me to comprehend. One can hire a hod carrier much cheaper than a bricklayer remember. I think Allardyce made him sub so often cos he was trying to add discipline to his game and turn him into a more complete player.

Players with talent like Hoilett are rare. He has skill vision and power, defenders are sh1tscared of him running at them and he has been involved in one way or another with most of the goals we have scored since and including last spring. If his strength is in cracking through defences rather than defending.... and it is... then the team must be set up to accomodate his talents. imo that means not playing too many players of similar ilk. Playing Hoilett and any other two from Rochina, Vukevic, Formica in the same team in the Prem is naive in the extreme and to do so away from home is suicidal. imo Hoilett must be given a free role to play right across the front of midfield and in support of a loan striker. The 4 in midfield need to take on his defensive duties and behind them Dann needs to get closer and protect Givet in the way Samba helps out Salgado. Olsson is a must imo given that he is defender, flying winger and eager runner. The two in centre mid must be permed from our growlers N'Zonzi, Petrovic and Grella and the man on the right is Emerton..... Oh wait baldybollocks gave him away didn't he? The Carlos Kickaball brigade are talented without a doubt, are probably expensive in wages, will have been used to swindle millions out of the owners BUT until 12 or 13 players are allowed in a football team they need to be kept for 2nd half substitutions and Carling Cup games.

[thenodrog]

In that formation though I'd drop Rochina to the bench and play Formica as the other winger for now. I like what he brings to the team.

Formica is not a winger ER. He doesn't have enough pace to play on the wing. Pace is God given and cannot be learned.

I haven't seen Vukevic play so I can't comment on him yet but reports suggest that he will be our right winger.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Formica is not a winger ER. He doesn't have enough pace to play on the wing. Pace is God given and cannot be learned.

I haven't seen Vukevic play so I can't comment on him yet but reports suggest that he will be our right winger.

Not a natural winger agreed but I believe he did play wide left quite a bit for his club in Argentina.

[thenodrog]

Givet is so awful out there that he's exagerating the issue massively. I guess that doesn't help the situation at all,

Unfair that imo. Givet after all is a centre half filling in and has been cut adrift by a manager who allows Hoilett to do as he likes without compensating at the back and the same manager who has introduced Dann into the equatio but who doesn't appear able to organise Dann and a defensive midfielder to 'cover' Givet when opponents are targetting him.

[thenodrog]

Junior keeps this up and he'll be off in JAnuary, no doubt in my mind.

Either Jan or next summer. I said this ages ago USAblue. This is a big big season for Hoilett without a doubt. If I was his agent / father that would have been the plan in mind from way back when he signed the last 2 year deal under Allardyce. The fact that the contract is unsigned virtually conforms this. Now the entire press / media and other teams are sitting up and taking notice of what we have known for 2 years. One massivley good season with us, freedom of contract and the Hoilett family become very very wealthy. With no transfer fee to bother about his next wage could easily be 200k pw.

[LeChuck]

Unfair that imo. Givet after all is a centre half filling in and has been cut adrift by a manager who allows Hoilett to do as he likes without compensating at the back and the same manager who has introduced Dann into the equatio but who doesn't appear able to organise Dann and a defensive midfielder to 'cover' Givet when opponents are targetting him.

It's not just that Givet can't cope with any opponent put in front of him, he keeps losing possession. His use of the ball in the last two games has been appalling. Centre half or not, he should be able to retain possession better than he has been. It puts us under needless pressure.

I'll accept that, against Arsenal, he was 2 vs 1 on a number of occassions. Sagna is the most attacking right we will face all season, but in most games that won't be much of an issue. Most right backs will be worried about leaving Hoilett on his own.

Against Fulham it wasn't an issue, Givet just couldn't handle Duff in 1 vs 1 situations. Then he totally pussied out of a tackle with Zamora and allowed him to score.

A lot of teams play attacking wingers with limited defensive responsibility nowadays. Wigan use Rodallega out there, he hardly ever tracks back. I admit Kean hasn't done enough to arrange a central midfield/defence that can provide cover though.

[thenodrog]

Hoilett doesn't hold all the Aces here. Presuming we've offered him a pay rise (let's say £10 grand p/w rise for example) Hoilett is losing £10k a week whilst he doesn't sign.

There will come a point (if he doesn't sign at all this season) where he's lost more in earnings than he could hope to recoup via a signing on fee.

Also, the security of a contract works two ways it provides us the abilty to command a fee for a transfer but ALSO ensure the player a guaranteed wage no matter how good he is playing or even if he's not playing at all. Imagine if Hoilett was to break his leg near the end of the seaon, he'd be screwed financially with his deal running out.

I presume you've left your tardis ticking over outside.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

£15M would be a very low release clause and I'd be a bit gutted at that. I'd rather offer him a little more wages in an effort to up the release clause to £20 - £25M. Venky's were willing to offer PJ £80k a week so the budget is there... we've bought some players but we've also let go of Santa Cruz, JJ, Andrews, Benjani... and a few others. I'm sure we could accomodate a higher wage for Junior - if it meant him signing on with a much higher or no release clause I'd do it. But I guess it's up to Venky's to decide whether such an option is viable.

As long as they're being well paid regardless, players always value personal glory and success above money. Jones is on less at United than he would have been on at other top clubs who tried to hijack the deal, but he wanted to go to United because of the glory. Hoilett obviously doesn't wanna stick around for much longer, his number 1 priority in these negotiations will be to make sure the release clause isn't too high to put clubs off. Can't see offering him higher wages changing that.

[DE.]

As long as they're being well paid regardless, players always value personal glory and success above money. Jones is on less at United than he would have been on at other top clubs who tried to hijack the deal, but he wanted to go to United because of the glory. Hoilett obviously doesn't wanna stick around for much longer, his number 1 priority in these negotiations will be to make sure the release clause isn't too high to put clubs off. Can't see offering him higher wages changing that.

You may be right, but it's worth a shot surely? Can't think of any other options - Hoilett holds all the cards.

[Eddie]

£15m would be a decent fee for him. It would be great to see the figure closer to £20m, but in all honesty if we were offered £15m for him in January we would probably accept anyway, so there's no point in risking losing him on a free for a fee that is entirely acceptable for a player who is very talented but still has a way to go before the top clubs are seriously interested.

[Ricky]

Ashley Young went for a rumoured £18m in the summer. I personally think Young is a better player than Jr at this moment in time. I'm sure we'd all love a £30m release clause but as 'arry has said today if you want to value the player at that much you need to pay the wages to match. £35k a week is not a salary for a £30m player, we'd have to be payig double that.

I'd say his wages reflect the release clause of £15m. I'd be happier if they upped the wage offer and upped the release clause at the same time.

[47er]

£15m would be a decent fee for him. It would be great to see the figure closer to £20m, but in all honesty if we were offered £15m for him in January we would probably accept anyway, so there's no point in risking losing him on a free for a fee that is entirely acceptable for a player who is very talented but still has a way to go before the top clubs are seriously interested.

What would we do with the 15M quid? Buy 5 players we'd never heard of, with exotic names, then wait for a year while they "adjust' to the Premier League (or not).

Meanwhile our most potent attacking threat has gone.

[Gav]

I thought he had a nightmare myself. Yes his attacking play was good, but he left Givet exposed all game long. It's all well and good ghosting past the full back, but you're worthless as a teammate if you don't track said fullback back when not in possession.

Absolutely bang on the money Exiled.

The crowd hammered Givet time and time again, yet we Hoilett who only tracks back when he feels it and leaves Givet exposed to all and sundry down that side. Same thing with Salgado last season and this, he’s completely exposed due to having no cover.

That’s the mangers fault, pure and simply.

[Eddie]

What would we do with the 15M quid? Buy 5 players we'd never heard of, with exotic names, then wait for a year while they "adjust' to the Premier League (or not).

Meanwhile our most potent attacking threat has gone.

That's the one way to look at it, the other is that we are only a couple months away from him signing a pre-contract with another club.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Agree with many of the comments. Jnr should play free behind Yakubu and have Olsson helping our Givet.

The manager is stupid to play the front six he's putting out.