[Archived] David Hoilett

[Rover_Shaun]

I always assumed managers have precious little dealings with contracts? Redknapp always says the tells the board "I want that one" and they then go forth and conquer

[den]

I always assumed managers have precious little dealings with contracts? Redknapp always says the tells the board "I want that one" and they then go forth and conquer

Well yeah, but the manager can have a big influence in persuading, or otherwise, the player to commit.

[chaddyrovers]

I reckon Hoilett will sign a new contract when we get a proper manager in.

Hoilett and his dad will know that under Kean leadership we are heading for the Championship and fast!!!

[chris]

I reckon Hoilett will sign a new contract when we get a proper manager in.

Hoilett and his dad will know that under Kean leadership we are heading for the Championship and fast!!!

[Mercer]

I reckon Hoilett will sign a new contract when we get a proper manager in.

Hoilett and his dad will know that under Kean leadership we are heading for the Championship and fast!!!

Chaddy - I hope you are right, however, as I said yesterday, it's going to have to be one helluva an appointment for the Hoiletts to have a change of heart.

Heads have well and truly been turned and they've now seen Phil Jones propelled into the England team after leaving Rovers. You can't put toothpaste back in the tube !!!!

[chaddyrovers]

Chaddy - I hope you are right, however, as I said yesterday, it's going to have to be one helluva an appointment for the Hoiletts to have a change of heart.

Heads have well and truly been turned and they've now seen Phil Jones propelled into the England team after leaving Rovers. You can't put toothpaste back in the tube !!!!

If rovers bring in Hughes or Rafa as manager, then hopefully they can convice him to stay at the club.

[MarkBRFC71]

Well, although he was wanted by clubs in Germany, Allardyce got him to sign a new contract. That's two years more than this muppet has got. Who knows, Junior might already have been signed up again if the people who wanted Sam out hadn't got their way.

He was wanted by St. Pauli who were in the German second division and probably unable to offer even half of what he was looking at here. My post was more aimed at John Williams - as brilliant as he was he did make the odd mistake. No doubt it was Williams that got him to sign, but he should have pushed for 4 years. Hey ho.

If Sam stayed .... we'd probably still have EH Diouf .... Junior would likely be warming the bench more often than not, and would be baulking at signing a new contract. We'd be in the same boat but with an ageing journeyman more likely to be getting a bumper new pay deal.

[LeChuck]

If Sam stayed .... we'd probably still have EH Diouf .... Junior would likely be warming the bench more often than not

Diouf and Hoilett would have been more than capable of playing in the same team. There are two wings...

[MarkBRFC71]

Diouf and Hoilett would have been more than capable of playing in the same team. There are two wings...

You're forgetting Pedersen ..... long throws and "deadly accuracy" from free-kicks/corners, both staples of Big Sam football. He'd have been a shoe-in on the left.

[jim mk2]

He was wanted by St. Pauli who were in the German second division and probably unable to offer even half of what he was looking at here. My post was more aimed at John Williams - as brilliant as he was he did make the odd mistake. No doubt it was Williams that got him to sign, but he should have pushed for 4 years. Hey ho.

If Sam stayed .... we'd probably still have EH Diouf .... Junior would likely be warming the bench more often than not, and would be baulking at signing a new contract. We'd be in the same boat but with an ageing journeyman more likely to be getting a bumper new pay deal.

Having another little pop at Sam again ? Even after all the events of the past 9 months or so some folk never learn.

Hoilett and Diouf did play in the same team under Sam and would have continued to do so. Hoilett was brought into the team gently by Sam because he wasn't ready for a regular place as anyone who went to matches would know, This has been explained many times before but the hard of learning still don't understand.

In my opinion it was a big mistake by Kean to release Diouf (and Emerton) because it left us desperately short of experienced players who know how to eke out results in this league.

Diouf was never anything but a very good footballer who could play in a number of positions. I think you are confusing journeyman with the quality of very ordinary players Kean has signed to try to replace him.

You're forgetting Pedersen ..... long throws and "deadly accuracy" from free-kicks/corners, both staples of Big Sam football. He'd have been a shoe-in on the left.

"Big Sam football" was safe and steady and more than kept us in this league.

[chris]

Maybe if Holliet was introduced more slowly he wouldnt have got a big head and demand a 18 million pound release clause when a year ago he was worth very little.

What has Kean achieved by getting ride of Diouf and Emerton

[den]

He was wanted by St. Pauli who were in the German second division and probably unable to offer even half of what he was looking at here. My post was more aimed at John Williams - as brilliant as he was he did make the odd mistake. No doubt it was Williams that got him to sign, but he should have pushed for 4 years. Hey ho.

If Sam stayed .... we'd probably still have EH Diouf .... Junior would likely be warming the bench more often than not, and would be baulking at signing a new contract. We'd be in the same boat but with an ageing journeyman more likely to be getting a bumper new pay deal.

Seems like you still haven't learnt the lesson Mark.

That one single decision to sack Allardyce is the reason why we are second from bottom of the premier league. You can speculate all you want about whether another manager might have done better than Allardyce from November until now, but the fact is that if the Raos hadn't sacked Allardyce as you wanted, we wouldn't be where we are now.

and yes, Sam might, just might have persuaded Junior to sign the contract that Kean said was so close.

[T4E]

I'm not that bothered, Rochina has more skills, Formica has a better shot and Olsson is faster.

Is there any precedent that could give us a hint of what we might get at a tribunal?

[LeChuck]

Is there any precedent that could give us a hint of what we might get at a tribunal?

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1932749,00.html

Daniel Sturridge's move to Chelsea is about as close as we'll get I think.

Looks like he'll cost £6.5 million eventually (I'm sure he'll play 40 club games and appear for England in his time there).

The 15% sell-on fee might make them more money in the future as well. Still well short of his market value though.

[Torgeir]

Maybe if Holliet was introduced more slowly he wouldnt have got a big head and demand a 18 million pound release clause when a year ago he was worth very little.

What has Kean achieved by getting ride of Diouf and Emerton

Hell if you do and hell if you don't. There's no way Hoilett would have signed a new contract had he not been playing more or less regularly, that's why he only signed a relatively short extension last time around. Now he's looking for a release clause and is holding all the cards, I think it's time for Venky's (and some fans) to realise that we're a selling club and refusing to include minimum fee clauses in contracts is futile.

[MarkBRFC71]

Seems like you still haven't learnt the lesson Mark.

That one single decision to sack Allardyce is the reason why we are second from bottom of the premier league. You can speculate all you want about whether another manager might have done better than Allardyce from November until now, but the fact is that if the Raos hadn't sacked Allardyce as you wanted, we wouldn't be where we are now.

and yes, Sam might, just might have persuaded Junior to sign the contract that Kean said was so close.

We're going over old, boring ground again but that is at best unprovable. The one single decision as to why we're second from bottom is not the decision to sack Sam Allardyce, it's in not replacing him with a proper manager. Pick any from O'Neill, Jol, Curbishley (to name but 3 available at the time) and we'd have likely matched anything Sam would have achieved IMO.

Having said that, we could quite easily have gone down last season under Sam (his points-per-game ratio had got worse season on season); we could quite easily have got top 10 again (he was at least experienced and had a system - albeit agricultural - that did grind out points). That's the beauty of football though - there's no way to prove either. Injuries, loss of form etc etc could all have played just as much a part in where we finished as who was manager (I'm certain Phil Jones being missing for the majority of Kean's reign didn't help one bit), although we hamstrung ourselves further by appointing a naive, inexperienced non-entity in Steve Kean.

Back on topic. I don't think Junior wants to sign for Kean, and I don't think he'd have signed for Allardyce purely because - IMO - Sam would have favoured Diouf and his chances would still be limited. He's waiting to see who comes in to replace Kean; this is THE key decision Venky's can't afford to balls-up again.

[Mattyblue]

You're right mark nothing is certain.

However, my point is this, the whole argument of 'yeah I celebrated but only because I thought Jol was coming' is

a) a lie- you was just delighted and bugger the consequences and

b] There was absolutely no evidence or ITKers pointing to Jol, just the fact bookies had him as a favourite- just like they would have if a host of other clubs had sacked their managers that day.

[Amo]

I'm not even sure he was a good buy. We needed a central midfielder 10 times more than we needed a centre half, where we already had Samba, Givet, Nelsen and Hanley.

We've seen already this season that it doesn't matter how good your centre back pairing is if you have a woeful central midfield. That £7 million should have gone on a central midfielder (with the loose change bringing in cover at left back to cover Givet moving to the middle).

If I had a quid for everytime you've said this.

On its own merits, Dann was a good signing. 24 year-old, highly-rated English centre-half, bought for a reasonable price. Nelsen's getting on, Givet's found wanting at times, and Hanley's still unproven. We needed a centre-back as much as a defensive midfielder.

[MarkBRFC71]

You're right mark nothing is certain.

However, my point is this, the whole argument of 'yeah I celebrated but only because I thought Jol was coming' is

a) a lie- you was just delighted and bugger the consequences and

b] There was absolutely no evidence or ITKers pointing to Jol, just the fact bookies had him as a favourite- just like they would have if a host of other clubs had sacked their managers that day.

I was surprised, delighted and looked upon it as an opportunity for Venky's to start off on the right foot by appointing a manager who at least would have the fans united behind him (Sam was the most divisive manager we've had - I think we can agree on that! ) if not a huge improvement. They failed spectacularly, and it's been like something out of Laurel & Hardy ever since. Jol was at least the bookie's favourite - no-one even expected, let alone wanted Kean on a permanent basis.

[T4E]

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1932749,00.html

Daniel Sturridge's move to Chelsea is about as close as we'll get I think.

Looks like he'll cost £6.5 million eventually (I'm sure he'll play 40 club games and appear for England in his time there).

The 15% sell-on fee might make them more money in the future as well. Still well short of his market value though.

What does the tribunal take in to account? Does it consider the previous inpact of the player specifically to the club? Sturridge although obviously talented had made very few appearances for City, and was well down their pecking order. Hoilett is near enough our best player and would leave a far bigger hole in a team with a much smaller bank balance (therefore less able to replace him). I'd like to think we would get more for him than £6.5m based on that.

[den]

We're going over old, boring ground again but that is at best unprovable. The one single decision as to why we're second from bottom is not the decision to sack Sam Allardyce, it's in not replacing him with a proper manager.

No Mark. Sacking Allardyce is proven to have been detrimental by results since, something never acknowledged by people who wanted him out - whatever the cost to the club might be.

It was very debateable as to who we could attract to replace Sam, but it was highly unlikely that he would improve on a top ten finish with the squad that Allardyce had at his disposal at that time.

So, sacking Sam - bad move, proven to have been so by results. Sam's replacement bringing an improvement was highly speculative at the time, because no-one knew who was available. It was high risk. There were many fans quite prepared to take the risk. Those fans now proven to be wrong in wanting the club to take that risk, wouldn't you say?

I guess your answer will be, "but I thought we would get someone better". Thank goodness normal club chairmen don't work like that.

Anyway, you're right on one thing - it's dull.

[jim mk2]

We're going over old, boring ground again but that is at best unprovable. The one single decision as to why we're second from bottom is not the decision to sack Sam Allardyce, it's in not replacing him with a proper manager. Pick any from O'Neill, Jol, Curbishley (to name but 3 available at the time) and we'd have likely matched anything Sam would have achieved IMO.

.

Wrong again. There was no justification for sacking sam - none whatsoever. That decision is the reason Rovers are near bottom of the league now. And it's pointless throwing in names like O'Neill etc because they would never have come to Rovers under Venky's ( and still won't) because the owners proved they are not willing to splash out the money on a big name manager (or a big-name player) by hiring Kean.

You are clueless.

[jim mk2]

I was surprised, delighted and looked upon it as an opportunity for Venky's to start off on the right foot by appointing a manager who at least would have the fans united behind him (Sam was the most divisive manager we've had - I think we can agree on that! ) if not a huge improvement. They failed spectacularly, and it's been like something out of Laurel & Hardy ever since. Jol was at least the bookie's favourite - no-one even expected, let alone wanted Kean on a permanent basis.

Wrong again. Sam is divisive on here apparently only because of a select few Blackburn Enders who were upset over a bad result at old Trafford but cannot see the bigger picture of a manager who was perfect for managing a pennliess but proud medium sized outfit such as BRFC. Ask any knowledgable supporter and they will still shake their heads at Sam's sacking as say it was probably one of the most disastrous decisions taken at Ewood in the past 50 years.

[jim mk2]

There's a moderator on here who has as much idea as Steve Kean.

[MarkBRFC71]

There's a moderator on here who has as much idea as Steve Kean.

Which is still immeasurably more than you.

Anyway, back on topic. I think Junior is waiting to see if (when?) Kean goes, and who he's replaced by. If it's another no-mark I think he'll run his contract down and move on. A proper manager and he might sign on again. It's up to Venky's to not balls up the next managerial appointment as much as the last one.