[Archived] Kevin Davies - The Second Coming...?

[ABBEY]

OK, let's take two recent exaples of how Kevin Davies pays his way.

The season before last his contributions kept the club in the Premier League. Anyone who saw his performances knows that. Worth? - millions.

Take away Davies's 11 goals last season and Bolton would have been very close to the bottom three. Worth? - millions.

It's not about re-sale, it's about getting the best available team on the pitch.

and if they played without a goalie

[Amo]

Diouf cost a wee bit more than that. Would you get your money back? No. But who cares frankly.

I'm not so sure. Let's say we sold him for £1.5m. Huge loss?

Givet is setting you back between £3 and 4 million. Would you get your money back? No. But who cares again.

Disagree. He's hardly in the twilight of his career. Good season or two in the PL and we could recoup £4m, I reckon.

If you can get Davies for £5 million he could be worth £2 million a season in place money to you...

We could also sign another Santa Cruz to achieve the same thing and net us over £15m in the process.

That is the equation you have to look at, not re-sale.

I beg to differ. There are several factors to consider when managing a football club's future.

[LeChuck]

Nicko, there's a huge flaw in your argument.

The only reason we can think about spending £5 million on Kevin Davies is because Mark Hughes had a fantastic ability to buy players with the potential for huge resale value.

If two years ago Hughes had spent the majority of our budget on a 32 year old striker instead of buying Santa Cruz we would be in no position to replace him with anyone approaching £5 million.

It's incredibly short sighted to not think about the resale value. Where would the money come from to replace Davies when his value dropped to nil in a couple of years?

[steven]

Nicko, there's a huge flaw in your argument.

The only reason we can think about spending £5 million on Kevin Davies is because Mark Hughes had a fantastic ability to buy players with the potential for huge resale value.

If two years ago Hughes had spent the majority of our budget on a 32 year old striker instead of buying Santa Cruz we would be in no position to replace him with anyone approaching £5 million.

It's incredibly short sighted to not think about the resale value. Where would the money come from to replace Davies when his value dropped to nil in a couple of years?

The other thing is we've seen him play in a Rovers shirt before and it ain't pretty!

[hi-jaq]

I don't see what's so stupid about what he said.

In fact the only thing that i see is stupid, is you calling it stupid but not giving a reason why?

Cheers for that Ben!!!

I am entitle to my opinion, wether it's stupid or not... I can also take into account what I was expecting from this transfer window, and it is all going to pot... Not happy about Davies signing, was hoping for a signing to catch my imagination, in a similar mould to Santa Cruz, or Benni Mac.

I have woken up this morning & realised one thing though... Whatever Rovers do, I have no say in the matter, allthough I can have a rant on here, ultimately, none of it really matters... I WILL BACK THE MANAGER & THE CLUB as I have since I was considerably younger than I am now.

It doesnt matter who we sign, as long as we finish above the Dingles & beat them twice along the way, I'll be more than happy!!!

COME ON YOU BLUES!!!

[BuckyRover]

A footballers confidence is one of his best assets. I think Davies coming back here could easily damage his confidence. The crowd don't like Andrews very much, yet he didn't previously cost us a load of money and see us relegated.

He would have a tough time. One miss in the first game and I could be 5m plus wages down the drain. Far too risky

[nicko]

Nicko, there's a huge flaw in your argument.

The only reason we can think about spending £5 million on Kevin Davies is because Mark Hughes had a fantastic ability to buy players with the potential for huge resale value.

If two years ago Hughes had spent the majority of our budget on a 32 year old striker instead of buying Santa Cruz we would be in no position to replace him with anyone approaching £5 million.

It's incredibly short sighted to not think about the resale value. Where would the money come from to replace Davies when his value dropped to nil in a couple of years?

Somebody tell me where these wonderful, untried gems are please...I know the chairman reads this thread. I'm sure he would be delighted to have some ideas.

Especially at this point.

A mate of mine is looking for young and untried starlets and I can tell you that they are hard to find. The good ones cost a fortune.

[Ricky]

As mentioned on the other thread, Adam Johnson... I know he's on your mates radar.

There's an example. Young, good prospect and good 'resale' value.

[gumboots]

If you can get Davies for £5 million he could be worth £2 million a season in place money to you...

And he could get crocked first game and at his age would stand very little chance of fully recovering. Not a likely scenario, I know but having spent 5 million on him would then seem a very bad bit of business if it was the major part of any spending we did this summer. It's that that really sticks. If we have to pay that much for him then what is left over for the other parts of our team that have been crying out for attention for the last couple of seasons? Nobody really thinks that Reid or Dunn will get and stay fit for central midfield, leaving us with the not very good pair of Grella and Andrews. We might have Emerton and Warnock to play there but that presupposes Emerton getting fit and ready to play at the start of the season and anyway, he's probably needed for right back. If I were Warnock, I'd be looking for a way out of Rovers fast anyway given that this is the signings we are having or choosing to make. We need a supplier for a target man and neither Diouf nor pedersen has shown any sign of being capable of being that. We have a very slow team and unless we get some pace we have no variety in our team. I am aware that these would be problems whoever we bought, but it still makes spending that much on an aging player less palatable.

[nicko]

As mentioned on the other thread, Adam Johnson... I know he's on your mates radar.

There's an example. Young, good prospect and good 'resale' value.

Unfortunately Middlesbrough are aware of all of these points and asking stupid money.

Perfect example of the problem you or anyone else faces right now.

£5 million for a young lad who hasn't started much and has one year left on his contract.

The market is very hard for clubs trying to snap up bargains.

[Paul]

What is this re-sale value nonsense everybody goes on about?

Players prove their worth by what they do on the pitch...where they earn points, improve placings and make money for the club that way.

You put forward Janko and Zigic as players who would be better than Davies. Are either of them going to be worth more in a year or two?

It's not an Economics class, it's football.

You sign the players you want to bring you the best success on the field.

Simple as that.

You can say this because ultimately you have no responsibility for or interest in our football club. As fans we have a real interest in the club and it's good to read more and more fans are appreciating Rovers cannot afford to waste money on players. Elsewhere you have commented Davies could be worth £2m / season in place money. I quite agree he could be but to repay the £5m he has to do it for three years, and that I doubt, which is why things like resale value are not nonsense to the club's supporters.

For journalists the story is important and the money largely irrelevant, for the club and the support the opposite is true.

[nicko]

You can say this because ultimately you have no responsibility for or interest in our football club. As fans we have a real interest in the club and it's good to read more and more fans are appreciating Rovers cannot afford to waste money on players. Elsewhere you have commented Davies could be worth £2m / season in place money. I quite agree he could be but to repay the £5m he has to do it for three years, and that I doubt, which is why things like resale value are not nonsense to the club's supporters.

For journalists the story is important and the money largely irrelevant, for the club and the support the opposite is true.

Feel free to make that point to your manager.

It's not my idea. Although I have to say I see the sense in it.

[joey_big_nose]

Unfortunately Middlesbrough are aware of all of these points and asking stupid money.

Perfect example of the problem you or anyone else faces right now.

£5 million for a young lad who hasn't started much and has one year left on his contract.

The market is very hard for clubs trying to snap up bargains.

Hmm. I imagine most on this board would prefer to sped 5 million on Johnson than Davies. Personally I wouldn't want to spend five million on either - mainly becuase we have aleft winger as it is.

If Peds left i would be sorely tempted. Incidentally I am surprised Spurs haven't bought Johnson yet. He is right up their street... maybe they are focussing on Downing?

[nicko]

Hmm. I imagine most on this board would prefer to sped 5 million on Johnson than Davies. Personally I wouldn't want to spend five million on either - mainly becuase we have aleft winger as it is.

If Peds left i would be sorely tempted. Incidentally I am surprised Spurs haven't bought Johnson yet. He is right up their street... maybe they are focussing on Downing?

It would be a very soft focus on Downing...because he's out for months.

[LeChuck]

Somebody tell me where these wonderful, untried gems are please...I know the chairman reads this thread. I'm sure he would be delighted to have some ideas.

For £5 million we could do a little better than an untried gem, our options aren't polarised between completely unknown and 32 year old solid-but-unspectacular players.

Managing a club like Rovers in the Premier League is inherently difficult, I never suggested it was easy, but that's not to say it's impossible. Hughes did a fine job when he was here in managing to get players in with good resale value. Steve Bruce did the same at Wigan with the likes of Palacios and Valencia, I'm sure players like Cattermole and N'Zogbia will provide future funding too.

Unless Davies managed to get us qualified for the Champion's League then we would be left penniless in trying to replace him a few years down the line, unless we managed to pull off another Bentley/Santa Cruz signing elsewhere on the pitch. That's the only way clubs like ours can survive in the top flight long term.

[67splitscreen]

When Davies was here as a youngster he was rubbish, he was ridiculed from every corner of the ground.

Sam turned Davies into what we see today.

I agree It does seem a lot for a 32 year old.

His attributes are what are needed for the type of football we will play.

He has said in the past, it was a move he wished he had not made.

Question is would Davies want to return to Ewood?.

I'm not sure he would.

Having said that money talks, not sure how long he has left on his contract, I would think we would have to give him at least a 4 year deal, that takes him to around 37, he probably has maybe 2 seasons left in him in the Prem.

If Sam wants him and he can persuade JW that this is the way to go then in the short term fine, however the financial side, mid contract does concern me.

[Eddie]

The Davies deal makes no sense financially. It's a large part of our budget and one final pay day for a player who may last two seasons, but probably no longer than that. How often do big powerful strikers play into their late 30's?

I could produce a list as long as my arm of strikers who I think would be better signings for 5 million or less, all of whom would probably also sign on lower wages.

[T4E]

Where would the money come from to replace Davies when his value dropped to nil in a couple of years?

This is by far the most pertinent point made throughout the whole debate. Its OK saying Davies will make us enough money in the short term to cover our outlay, but unless he takes us to the Champions League we'll be left with no cash whatsoever to replace him once he's past it. Then what?

For the record, I like the general idea of Davies. I only have one question though. Looking at their respective goal scoring statistics, common attributes and styles of play, what does he have that Jason Roberts doesn't?

Unless Davies managed to get us qualified for the Champion's League then we would be left penniless in trying to replace him a few years down the line.

Dammit! Thats what I get for taking 15 minutes to post.

[den]

The Davies deal makes no sense financially. It's a large part of our budget and one final pay day for a player who may last two seasons, but probably no longer than that. How often do big powerful strikers play into their late 30's?

This is the wrong way to look at things Eddie. Look at these deals collectively. The individuals might seem, and indeed might be, over priced and poor value for money.

The hope is though, that the manager can put some deals together, some which might seem good and some which might seem bad - but end up with a successful squad which together improves the results on the field.

The same kind of arguments apply to the top clubs paying out seemingly vast fortunes to players. Does it matter as long as the club moves forward and competes as well as possible?

Just another way at looking at things. [and the right way].

Sam, to JW - John, I want to sign Kevin Davies for £5m.

JW - but he'll cost too much money Sam, we'll get no return.

Sam - John, I know that but he's vital to what I'm trying to do here. The squad I want to put together will take us back into the top half of the league.

JW - ???????????????????????

[joey_big_nose]

For the record, I like the general idea of Davies. I only have one question though. Looking at their respective goal scoring statistics, common attributes and styles of play, what does he have that Jason Roberts doesn't?

Um, probably that Davies is probably the best player with his head up front in the premier league bar none. Roberts cannot head a ball.

Very different sorts of player - Roberts is more about pace and getting behind the defence. Davies plays the ball on, with his head, for others. The advantage I supose is taht DAvis can probably keep going into his mid thirties because he needs very little pace. Next season might be the last Roberts can feasibly perform in.

[Eddie]

Sure Den, but we have so many areas of our squad that need attention that I think we can only spend 4-6 million on a player if he has a genuine chance of being our best player for a couple seaons. We still need three strikers, a right back, two central midfielders and possibly a wide player and we are then going to spend a big chunk of our budget on a player who will at best score 12/13 goals? Are you really telling me that Davies and McCarthy or Davies and Roberts looks all that much better than Roberts and McCarthy? Not to me it doesn't.

[gazsimm]

This is the wrong way to look at things Eddie. Look at these deals collectively. The individuals might seem, and indeed might be, over priced and poor value for money.

The hope is though, that the manager can put some deals together, some which might seem good and some which might seem bad - but end up with a successful squad which together improves the results on the field.

The same kind of arguments apply to the top clubs paying out seemingly vast fortunes to players. Does it matter as long as the club moves forward and competes as well as possible?

Just another way at looking at things. [and the right way].

5 mill for Davies is hard to take, a far better option, would be to spend a little bit more money on someone like Bent, who will score 15- 20 goals a season. Cmon sam wake up and don't resign this donkey!!

[Eddie]

Sam, to JW - John, I want to sign Kevin Davies for £5m.

JW - but he'll cost too much money Sam, we'll get no return.

Sam - John, I know that but he's vital to what I'm trying to do here. The squad I want to put together will take us back into the top half of the league.

JW - ???????????????????????

JW - Then find someone who can do the same job who is younger, afterall you are famed for your transfer dealings, are you really saying that you are now so out of touch with football that 2 of your 3 first signings have to be players from your old clubs?

[joey_big_nose]

Are you really telling me that Davies and McCarthy or Davies and Roberts looks all that much better than Roberts and McCarthy? Not to me it doesn't.

To be honest it does! Daives and McCarthy would work quite well together as Benni would feed off what Davies creates. I could see Benni being quite prolific in that situation.

We need more pace though.

[Eddie]

Roberts and Benni work well together for just that reason and at least Roberts provides some pace. We would need a totally new midfield to play with Davies.