[Archived] Kevin Davies - The Second Coming...?

[spencey7]

Rovers went for him, he was due to come in, but he changed his mind...it wasn't my story at the time [i didn't break it, that is] but there was a lot to it.

Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole myself. Pavlyuchenko looked great for Russia but was hopeless for Spurs...Arshavin will catch the eye but also drive you mad. The intensity of their club football is nowhere near the Premier League's.

Nicko - I think you may have gone insane.

Arshavin is currently one of the Top 5 players in the world, and I would rather have one Pavlyuchenko than an entire team of Kevin Davies's. I remain fairly certain that the Pogrebnyak story was nothing more than a rumour, but I digress.

I guarantee that the "intensity" of the Russian or Argentinean leagues is certainly greater than that of the Premier League reserves, yet you are adamant in claiming that Franco Di Santo is perfectly capable of playing week-in, week-out in the top flight. Question - Which (international) leagues in your opinion ARE "fast" and "intense" enough to warrant their players a potential move to the Premier League?

I think this entire problem boils down to the "next season is the only important one" debate - and THAT is what will see us relegated within three years. Let's say next season we have Di Santo and Davies, and finish mid-table. Then in summer 2010 we lose Di Santo back to Chelsea, and have a big lump of a striker pushing 34. I'm beginning to believe that no-one at Blackburn Rovers understands the concept of "INVESTING IN THE SQUAD". We want (need) younger, exciting players - it's got f*** all to do with "re-sell value" in my eyes.

Such a sorry state of affairs.

[Eddie]

Top 5 players in the world? Not a chance. If I had to pick the best team he wouldn't even make the bench.

[nicko]

Nicko - I think you may have gone insane.

Arshavin is currently one of the Top 5 players in the world, and I would rather have one Pavlyuchenko than an entire team of Kevin Davies's. I remain fairly certain that the Pogrebnyak story was nothing more than a rumour, but I digress.

I guarantee that the "intensity" of the Russian or Argentinean leagues is certainly greater than that of the Premier League reserves, yet you are adamant in claiming that Franco Di Santo is perfectly capable of playing week-in, week-out in the top flight. Question - Which (international) leagues in your opinion ARE "fast" and "intense" enough to warrant their players a potential move to the Premier League?

I think this entire problem boils down to the "next season is the only important one" debate - and THAT is what will see us relegated within three years. Let's say next season we have Di Santo and Davies, and finish mid-table. Then in summer 2010 we lose Di Santo back to Chelsea, and have a big lump of a striker pushing 34. I'm beginning to believe that no-one at Blackburn Rovers understands the concept of "INVESTING IN THE SQUAD". We want (need) younger, exciting players - it's got f*** all to do with "re-sell value" in my eyes.

Such a sorry state of affairs.

Arhsavin wasn't even a regular 'pick' for Arsenal last season. Next season will be a fair time to judge his talent, but I suspect he will be a flatterer.

I loved him for Russia - the main rason I backed them for the Euros a year ago - but he flits in and out of games. Arsenal probably have enough of those.

The Premier League is different to any league in the world. It is fast, physical and intense. It doesn't make it better.

But it's where Blackburn Rovers play - and you have to get players who can handle that.

Look at Grella. Decent player in Serie A, selling plater in the Premier League. There are many more like that. Top Italians have come here and toiled. Look at Dossena. A joke at Liverpool, but Italy's left back.

The athletes - French and French-Africans - have been the successes overall. The Spanish have had some good ones too, but some shockers as well.

A great South American like Veron was so poor at Man U and Chelsea that he was hunted.

It's the way it is.

[Paul]

I think this entire problem boils down to the "next season is the only important one" debate - and THAT is what will see us relegated within three years. Let's say next season we have Di Santo and Davies, and finish mid-table. Then in summer 2010 we lose Di Santo back to Chelsea, and have a big lump of a striker pushing 34. I'm beginning to believe that no-one at Blackburn Rovers understands the concept of "INVESTING IN THE SQUAD". We want (need) younger, exciting players - it's got f*** all to do with "re-sell value" in my eyes.

Such a sorry state of affairs.

Correct. The squad is ageing together, we will be left with a bunch of 30+ players in 2 or 3 seasons. We don't have any money, except for RSC's fee, so it has to spent wisely on young players who will either stay with us for several years (unlikely) or who will command significant fees in the future. It's a very sad position to be in and is an indictment of the Premier League, Sky and everyhting that is wrong with modern sport. It's very difficult to get excited about a player(s) who are simply a means to and end - generating money for survival.

This money thing pervades every aspect of sport from childhood onwards. To put it in a nutshell "How fast can I go?" to which the answer is simply "How much money have you got?"

[T4E]

A great South American like Veron was so poor at Man U and Chelsea that he was hunted.

Forlan must be the starkest example of this.

However, our fans have gotten used to signing unproven foreign strikers and having them work out pretty well. Its no surprise thats where the majority are expecting the club to look this time.

[tony gale's mic]

Can someone tell me the re-sale value of the following:

Okocha? Djorkaeff? Hierro? Campo?

I know they didn't cost a fortune in the first place, but their wages were - at the time - absolutely massive. What were they worth to Bolton in terms of points and experience?

Priceless.

Djorkaeff kept them up first time, Okocha second time, Hierro took them to Europe and Campo was always there.

You can't beat players like that. The frees don't exist like that now, so you have to look at the next best thing.

Difference is twofold:

1. As people have said, they didnt command a fee, Davies would want pretty big wages and command £5m plus

2. They used to be truly world class players, so when they went into decline they were still very good. Davies is very shortly going to go into decline, and he's going to go from pretty useful in the right system, to completely useless.

[spencey7]

The athletes - French and French-Africans - have been the successes overall. The Spanish have had some good ones too, but some shockers as well.

It's the way it is.

But there are exceptions to these "rules" Nicko, if that's what they are. Don't you agree with the point Paul makes above, that constantly looking to plug gaps with aging players is a one-way ticket to oblivion?

For probably the only time in the foreseeable future (barring a takeover of course) we actually have some cold, hard cash to spend at the moment. Surely it's better to invest this in a long-term prospect, an exciting international player in their prime. The players I identified in an earlier post may not all be achievable, but over the course of any prospective contract at Rovers I have NO DOUBT they will have a more positive impact than Kevin Davies. Even an attempt to sign any of these players would at least be an indication that the club has SOME FORM of ambition.

Okocha? Djorkaeff? Hierro? Campo? DAVIES.

Illustrious company for Kevin.

Hilarious.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Rovers went for him, he was due to come in, but he changed his mind...it wasn't my story at the time [i didn't break it, that is] but there was a lot to it.

Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole myself. Pavlyuchenko looked great for Russia but was hopeless for Spurs...Arshavin will catch the eye but also drive you mad. The intensity of their club football is nowhere near the Premier League's.

Does that mean the KGB will be on my case?

It's the same with the SPL...and the SNP.

Pogrebnyak is a superior player to Pavlyuchenko, Pav only got a serious run in the Russian team because Pogrebnyak was injured. Plus i would add that Spurs isn't the best club to judge a player, how many career's have they ruined at that graveyard club?

I would be shocked if we don't make a final enquiry on him, fee wise he should be cheap as his contract expires in November and he has no intention of signing a new one. There's a good chance I know of him saying no, but I don't see the harm in making an enquiry but if we signed him on a free or a cheap fee then he would have a resale value.

[spencey7]

I would be shocked if we don't make a final enquiry on him, fee wise he should be cheap as his contract expires in November and he has no intention of signing a new one. There's a good chance I know of him saying no, but I don't see the harm in making an enquiry but if we signed him on a free or a cheap fee then he would have a resale value.

Not to mention he's 50 times the player that Kevin Davies is/was/ever will be.

[Kelbo]

That's the point though Nicko, they didn't cost much to bring in. If we signed Owen on relatively high wages I would be all for it. Davies coming in would be on relatively high wages and have a huge fee tagged along as well.

Here's the real question. Which is better:

1) Signing someone at a decent age who is then sold later on for the same amount or for a profit (see Bentley, Santa Cruz, Bellamy or even Anelka if you want to look at Allardyce at Bolton)

2) Signing an older player who when he leaves you are then not in a position financially to replace (see Cole, Okocha, Campo..)

I'm all for signing experienced players who can do a job, but you shouldn't spend a large part of your transfer budget on them, it just doesn't make sense. The best way for a club of our size to operate is to buy players who could be sold for a profit. If we were City, Spurs, Villa or a big four club I would be all for signing anyone who would make us 4 points better, but we just can't work like that on a consistent basis.

At the moment our squad is relatively old, we have plenty of players who are in their "prime" (26-29) and plenty of players in their early 30's, so we are looking at a few years when a lot of players will need to be replaced, why add to that?

We've seen in recent years how difficult it is to replace people like Duff, Bellamy and Bentley, even to replace Neill, why should the club look to spend money knowing that, even at best, it is only a short-term fix.

We are in a relatively rare positiion for this club, we won't have 15ish million to spend next summer, so why use it on buying players who for one don't get the fans even remotely excited and who, secondly, are hugely overpriced and will need to be replaced when we don't have nearly as much money?

If you can explain all of that to me, then you can convert me. Either that or if you can put your hand on your heart and say that adding Davies and Rothen to this squad will push us into the Champions League. Maybe with Davies we finish two places higher, which would be a significant impact for one player to have, but that is just 1.5 million back on the 5-6 million we spent on him. He's not going to excite the fans with his play, so it isn't even adding to the entertainment value at Ewood Park.

As myself and American have pointed out in the past, as well as some others, this club needs to be run in a "Moneyball"-Billy Beane sort of way and signing older players for high fees just isn't the way to go.

I feel this post has been well put, the exception being, on purely a results based industry, exciting fans whilst would be nice, comes to the bottom of the list, remember, we tried to excite and got relegated with Duff, Janson and Dunn!!

I fully understand and appreciate where you are coming from but, some of these players we are speaking of are risky, we are not Spurs who with Redknapp in charge gets it continually wrong by buying players, sells them again and brings in more players at even greater transfer fees and wages, so we cant afford to take risks, I think you will find that the other positions Sam fills will be of a younger age group and with a good sell on value!! remember, he wants Rothen on a free!!

A Nicko has continually said, and I do tend to agree, at the right money and wages, there are not really many, if any options.

[nicko]

But there are exceptions to these "rules" Nicko, if that's what they are. Don't you agree with the point Paul makes above, that constantly looking to plug gaps with aging players is a one-way ticket to oblivion?

For probably the only time in the foreseeable future (barring a takeover of course) we actually have some cold, hard cash to spend at the moment. Surely it's better to invest this in a long-term prospect, an exciting international player in their prime. The players I identified in an earlier post may not all be achievable, but over the course of any prospective contract at Rovers I have NO DOUBT they will have a more positive impact than Kevin Davies.

It's not 'constantly' - it's just where you are right now.

The manager knows and loves Kevin Davies. He is THE striker he wants. It will all come down to cost. Make no mistake.

However the club have looked everywhere for alternatives and found no-one who fits the bill...I could go into this in greater detail but I won't for now.

There isn't an ideal world, there isn't an ideal striker. It's what is best at the time.

The idea that you save your cash for a rainy day doesn't work either. Because I can't see any good strikers suddenly coming on the market in August.

Not to mention he's 50 times the player that Kevin Davies is/was/ever will be.

If the Russian guy is that good why has nobody bought him?

Just a thought.

Half of the Premier League wants a striker right now. Your man has not budged.

50 times? That would be 550 goals next season. Must be worth a punt.

[Eddie]

I feel this post has been well put, the exception being, on purely a results based industry, exciting fans whilst would be nice, comes to the bottom of the list, remember, we tried to excite and got relegated with Duff, Janson and Dunn!!

I fully understand and appreciate where you are coming from but, some of these players we are speaking of are risky, we are not Spurs who with Redknapp in charge gets it continually wrong by buying players, sells them again and brings in more players at even greater transfer fees and wages, so we cant afford to take risks, I think you will find that the other positions Sam fills will be of a younger age group and with a good sell on value!! remember, he wants Rothen on a free!!

A Nicko has continually said, and I do tend to agree, at the right money and wages, there are not really many, if any options.

When we were relegated Jansen, Dunn and Duff were bit-part and fringe squad players (exception probably being Jansen after he was signed), but they were by no means integral to our side.

I've yet to see anyone respond to my original post with a reason as to why it isn't the best way forward for the club and a valid argument for not signing Davies.

If we have searched the world and only been able to come up with Davies a few miles down the road who used to play for our club and for our current manager then we need an entirely new bunch of scouts.

[RibbleValleyRover]

If the Russian guy is that good why has nobody bought him?

Just a thought.

Half of the Premier League wants a striker right now. Your man has not budged.

50 times? That would be 550 goals next season. Must be worth a punt.

Perhaps because of the manager situation (Advocaat is leaving?) The player may want to see who comes in next at Zenit or perhaps the club don't want to do anything about his situation until a new manager is in place and he has his say on the player.

[Eddie]

If the Russian guy is that good why has nobody bought him?

Just a thought.

If Davies is so good then why has no one tried hard enough to get him off of Bolton (or even tried, I can't remember ever hearing about a bid being made for him). If the big four and other clubs find him "so hard to deal with" then why hasn't Ferguson brought him in to be the centre forward that they are so badly missing? Why didn't Wigan look at him as a replacement for Heskey? Or even why didn't Villa look at him instead of going for Heskey? Why didn't Allardyce take him to Newcastle, he has plenty of money to spend? Why isn't Benitez looking at him to be the foil for Torres? Why are Spurs trying to buy him as they are on the look-out for a centre forward?

Fact is our club is showing little or no ambition. We're playing it safe, falling back on something the manager already knows and something that will do nothing to take this club forward. I feel as if the fan base is being taken advantage of, the poor few months under Ince are being used as an excuse for showing a total lack of ambition. A club that has been clever in the transfer market for several years is now simply signing "safe" options to help us stay up. We're settling nicely into our small club mindset. With that approach it will only be a matter of time before we find ourselves in the small club league. At least Ince had a bit of ambition about him.

[Guest benmaxwell]

The manager knows and loves Kevin Davies. He is THE striker he wants. It will all come down to cost. Make no mistake.

However the club have looked everywhere for alternatives and found no-one who fits the bill...I could go into this in greater detail but I won't for now.

If the Russian guy is that good why has nobody bought him?

Just a thought.

If the cost is above 3 million it's a waste. I'd be alright with Davies coming back, but the price needs to be realistic. Realistic is not anything above £3m-£3.5m.

If the club has looked everywhere for a Davies type player and only found Davies, then that's really not good enough. We have a Davies 'type player' in the form of Roberts. We need a player with pace and creativity. That aint Davies.

If the Davies guy is that good why has nobody else bought him since he's been at Bolton? Just a thought.

[Eddie]

I really can't express just how angry this potential signing makes me. It has been a blow to lose good players, I was unimpressed by bringing in Andrews, Grella and Fowler, not excited by players like Roberts or Dickov, but just how angry this one makes me puts it on a level all of its own.

[nicko]

If the Davies guy is that good why has nobody else bought him since he's been at Bolton? Just a thought.

Hull City did. Twice. Moves refused. Newcastle United were warned off when Sam went there.

Chelsea considered him at one point last season but changed their minds.

Davies would walk into any side outside the top five or six. Ask the managers of those clubs and most would have him.

Still waiting for the Dream Alternative from someone...anyone.

[LeChuck]

Can anyone think of other 32 year olds that have moved for around £5 million in recent years? I can't think of one of the top of my head.

[Kelbo]

Quote Eddie.

If we have searched the world and only been able to come up with Davies a few miles down the road who used to play for our club and for our current manager then we need an entirely new bunch of scouts.

Or, the players we are looking for are simply not there, many people meet their wives from the same or even next town,

in theory, there is a whole world full of women to choose from, so why, many cases its because we have met them previously and know them!!

A scout can only look, given the directives from the manager, he may recommend and then the boss goes out for a final look! Then its up to the manager who signs, scouts dont sign players full stop.

[Guest benmaxwell]

Davies would walk into any side outside the top five or six. Ask the managers of those clubs and most would have him.

Still waiting for the Dream Alternative from someone...anyone.

Yeah, i can really see Manu, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa or Everton bidding £6 million plus for Davies. Their managers would be slaughtered if they did that!

Here's a dream alternative. Play Diouf or Roberts in the Davies roll as they are similar players, and spend the money on a different type of player. A type of player we don't currently have without Cruz, creative, young and with pace...

LET have a article about Darron Gibson on the Rovers section at the moment. Would be quality.

[Majiball]

Still waiting for the Dream Alternative from someone...anyone.

Since its a dream, John Charles please!!!

[nicko]

Yeah, i can really see Manu, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa or Everton bidding £6 million plus for Davies. Their managers would be slaughtered if they did that! PERHAPS YOU SHOULD READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN

Here's a dream alternative. Play Diouf or Roberts in the Davies roll as they are similar players, and spend the money on a different type of player. A type of player we don't currently have without Cruz, creative, young and with pace... NAME HIM

[super_arran]

Yeah, i can really see Manu, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa or Everton bidding £6 million plus for Davies. Their managers would be slaughtered if they did that!

Here's a dream alternative. Play Diouf or Roberts in the Davies roll as they are similar players, and spend the money on a different type of player. A type of player we don't currently have without Cruz, creative, young and with pace...

LET have a article about Darron Gibson on the Rovers section at the moment. Would be quality.

Don't get me wrong but isn't Davies a target man? Where as Diouf is more of a winger/attacking kind of player; a player which Davies would feed?

[Paul]

I've yet to see anyone respond to my original post with a reason as to why it isn't the best way forward for the club and a valid argument for not signing Davies.

This is because it is a good post, making valid points which are hard to disagree with. The harsh reality is this, the rich are becoming increasingly richer, the top teams, in a variety of countires, buy every decent footballer available and leave the rest of us to scratch around with some very average leftovers. Nicko says "it's just where you are now" - sorry it's is where we will be for the future. There is no white knight, there is no benefactor, there will not be a takeover. We are very fortunate to have had the Trust behind us for many years to provide the stability Rovers need. When one player costs double our season's wage bill or twice the price of buying the entire frigging club one has to be realistic and see the future is as you have said.

It's good to be old enough to recall when every team had a few decent players and an opportunity to win something.

On the other hand the media, in general, have to generate interest in an increasingly uncompetitive, boring and uninteresting league. It's therefore in the interest of all journalists to stimulate stories such as Davies to Rovers for £5m. The fact the majority on here seem somewhat underwhelmed by the news is good as supporters are showing some realism, it's bad for the media because it makes it harder to flog newspapers.

Me I take no notice whatsoever. I skim through The Guardian / Observer at the weekend and that's it The ony rumours / stories I believe are the ones which turn out in blue and white in August. The rest is utterly irrelevant and is nothing more than the media trying desperatley to sell the product. Call me cycnical if you like but the truth is 95% of football stories are either untrue or the the same old thing regurgitated. I thought that was plagiarism.

In any other walk of life spending £5m on something that will have no value in three years would be seen for what it is.

[LeChuck]

Don't get me wrong but isn't Davies a target man? Where as Diouf is more of a winger/attacking kind of player; a player which Davies would feed?

He plays more on the right nowadays. He certainly did in Allardyce's last Bolton season as Anelka was the main striker, and I think Elmander was the main striker last season.

I can't imagine Sam wanting to sign him for that position though, I'd expect him to play as the target man.