[Archived] Kevin Davies - The Second Coming...?

[nicko]

I love this discussion.

Mido's statistics:

2005/2006: 24(11)

2006/2007: 13(5)

2007/2008: 8(2)

2008/2009: 17(7)

I saw Mido in the second half of last season during his spell at Wigan.

Nice car, poor player.

In fact the big Bentley turns quicker in the club car park.

[Kelbo]

One of the funny things I have experienced over the years is peoples atraction to names.

Whilst I played Cricket,we had a proffessional who was an english lad,at that time, someone who had not played first class cricket was unheard of.

He got 87 wickets and missed 6 games through injury!!

His contract was not renewed, if he had been from Australia or South africa,West Indies etc. he would have got another contract!!

[Amo]

I'm pretty certain as it happens...Bent was offered to someone I know in the last window and those were the figures he was on and was looking for.

Just because Bent wants £60k+ a week doesn't mean he'll get it. That's what contract negotiations are for, after all?

[nicko]

Just because Bent wants £60k+ a week doesn't mean he'll get it. That's what contract negotiations are for, after all?

1 - he's not going to take a drop just for the privilege of wearing the blue and white.

2 - he will get it at Sunderland.

[alexanders]

Not if Sunderland are after Nikola Zigic.

Nicko,don't you see Sam getting Mido back to his best ?

[Amo]

1 - he's not going to take a drop just for the privilege of wearing the blue and white.

Or the promise of regular first-team football and revival of his international career?

[OJRovers]

I think if we sign an exciting midfielder people will be much more inclined to accept Davies. What people are worried about is selling roque and derbs and only having Kevin Davies to show for it.

[nicko]

Not if Sunderland are after Nikola Zigic.

Nicko,don't you see Sam getting Mido back to his best ?

Sunderland want Crouch and Bent...what do they want Zigic for? Has a floodlight fallen down?

Did Mido have a 'best'? The guy is carrying too much timber, doesn't score enough and is on big wages.

Or the promise of regular first-team football and revival of his international career?

Bent would get first-team football at Sunderland where he will possibly have an England striker beside him.

And when he misses that flight to South Africa next summer he will have a bulging bank balance to ease the pain.

I think if we sign an exciting midfielder people will be much more inclined to accept Davies. What people are worried about is selling roque and derbs and only having Kevin Davies to show for it.

Roque and Derbs did very little for you last season, nothing when it mattered in fact.

It wouldn't take much to improve on that contribution.

Great money for them, now it's how you spend it...but if you get Davies and Di Santo for ONE fee you really have swum the Channel.

[roverseas]

This season, POSSIBLY.

What happens next summer, or the summer after next? Di Santo will be back at Chelsea and Davies will be getting closer to putting the boots up and we've got the same dilemma again, this time without the Roque money... and only POSSIBLY money from a better finish in the league, money which in our case is used mainly to cover our losses anyway.

And as you've kindly pointed out before, the rest of our squad has no resale value... which will make us poorer than the Almshouse inhabitants at a time where money is crucial, with everyone else being backed by bored and wealthy investors. The short term is more important, yes. But we can't ignore the long term, it just wouldn't work in the years to come. It worked when Sam was at Bolton, because the league was completely different back then. People like McEveley, Nils-Eric Johansson, Douglas etc could do a job. The bar has been raised.

We're not getting anywhere here. You refuse to acknowledge that we need to secure our clubs future not only for the short term but also long term. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[RovertheHill]

We're not getting anywhere here. You refuse to acknowledge that we need to secure our clubs future not only for the short term but also long term. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think that Nicko is disagreeing with you. However, what he and others are saying is that you and many others can quote all the young Carlos Kickaball names you want but there are NO guarantees that they will be generate the resale value you think they will, and in the meantime we could be in deep ###### and relegated. Our own Carlos is proof of that. If we'd blown £5M on him this time last year we may have been excited about the prospect (as we were) but we'd be a bit p*ssed off now when all of a sudden we've lost money on the deal - not funded the deal for next season. I wish people would get it into their heads that it's not an exact science and if it it was easy everybody would be a successful premier league manager...

[alexanders]

I don't think that Nicko is disagreeing with you. However, what he and others are saying is that you and many others can quote all the young Carlos Kickaball names you want but there are NO guarantees that they will be generate the resale value you think they will, and in the meantime we could be in deep ###### and relegated. Our own Carlos is proof of that. If we'd blown £5M on him this time last year we may have been excited about the prospect (as we were) but we'd be a bit p*ssed off now when all of a sudden we've lost money on the deal - not funded the deal for next season. I wish people would get it into their heads that it's not an exact science and if it it was easy everybody would be a successful premier league manager...

I don't think that many of the MB posters wanted to bring in carlos for that amount of money.

A loan with an opportunity to buy was a great deal and didnt represent any risk for Rovers.

[imy9]

This season, POSSIBLY.

What happens next summer, or the summer after next? Di Santo will be back at Chelsea and Davies will be getting closer to putting the boots up and we've got the same dilemma again, this time without the Roque money... and only POSSIBLY money from a better finish in the league, money which in our case is used mainly to cover our losses anyway.

And as you've kindly pointed out before, the rest of our squad has no resale value... which will make us poorer than the Almshouse inhabitants at a time where money is crucial, with everyone else being backed by bored and wealthy investors. The short term is more important, yes. But we can't ignore the long term, it just wouldn't work in the years to come. It worked when Sam was at Bolton, because the league was completely different back then. People like McEveley, Nils-Eric Johansson, Douglas etc could do a job. The bar has been raised.

We're not getting anywhere here. You refuse to acknowledge that we need to secure our clubs future not only for the short term but also long term. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

There is sense in what you are saying and I would be of the thinking that we need a balance, we need to (1) Ensure our premier league survival (2) buy players who are capable of playing in the premier league (3) Take a punt on younger players who may provide the club with a decent fee later in their careers.

Thus far we have signed a 16 year old keeper, a 25 year old pacy winger and potentially a 28 year old French international, looking good so far. I think that if we get DiSanto on loan and Davies for under £5 million, we may have the funds to purchase two quality players for central midfield and right back, I am going to wait and see who turns up at Ewood before judging Sam but this is a very fine balance.

[Stuart]

I don't think that Nicko is disagreeing with you. However, what he and others are saying is that you and many others can quote all the young Carlos Kickaball names you want but there are NO guarantees that they will be generate the resale value you think they will, and in the meantime we could be in deep ###### and relegated. Our own Carlos is proof of that. If we'd blown £5M on him this time last year we may have been excited about the prospect (as we were) but we'd be a bit p*ssed off now when all of a sudden we've lost money on the deal - not funded the deal for next season. I wish people would get it into their heads that it's not an exact science and if it it was easy everybody would be a successful premier league manager...

Good points you make but which is the better bet:

a ) A horse with potential

b ) A dead horse

Capice?

With Sam's preference for playing the percentages surely even he can see that. Unless, and here's a thought, he's not in it for the long term...

[roverseas]

I have quoted funk all, thank you very much. I have however said that we've got an experienced squad already who managed - under Sam - to produce the form for half a year that would've had us finish mid table over the course of an entire season. This despite heavy injury problems! The reason we were in the crapper last season was because of Ince, nothing else. Don't forget that.

I have never claimed it to be any guarantees signing unknown players, I have always said it would be gambles... but with the squad that we've got, I feel that we can afford a gamble or two. And namedropping flops doesn't mean everyone will turn out like that. Remember Roque? Benni? Bentley? Pedersen? Tugay? It's just a matter of being glass half empty or glass half full. Do some proper research before signing and things are less likely to go crashy crashy. Villanueva was signed by the words of his agent and a video, for gods sake.

And the "name another striker then" is pointless. There ARE strikers out there. Not necessarily strikers like Davies but there are alternatives. And I know Sam might want a target man and that is his prerogative... but it's not the ONLY way to go and as I said, we can afford a gamble or two.

[alexanders]

I have quoted funk all, thank you very much. I have however said that we've got an experienced squad already who managed - under Sam - to produce the form for half a year that would've had us finish mid table over the course of an entire season. This despite heavy injury problems! The reason we were in the crapper last season was because of Ince, nothing else. Don't forget that.

I have never claimed it to be any guarantees signing unknown players, I have always said it would be gambles... but with the squad that we've got, I feel that we can afford a gamble or two. And namedropping flops doesn't mean everyone will turn out like that. Remember Roque? Benni? Bentley? Pedersen? Tugay? It's just a matter of being glass half empty or glass half full. Do some proper research before signing and things are less likely to go crashy crashy. Villanueva was signed by the words of his agent and a video, for gods sake.

And the "name another striker then" is pointless. There ARE strikers out there. Not necessarily strikers like Davies but there are alternatives. And I know Sam might want a target man and that is his prerogative... but it's not the ONLY way to go and as I said, we can afford a gamble or two. And just because Nicko doesn't feel that these strikers are good enough doesn't necessarily mean he's 100% correct, as knowledgeable as he is.

Great post. My thoughts actually.

[RovertheHill]

I have quoted funk all, thank you very much. I have however said that we've got an experienced squad already who managed - under Sam - to produce the form for half a year that would've had us finish mid table over the course of an entire season. This despite heavy injury problems! The reason we were in the crapper last season was because of Ince, nothing else. Don't forget that.

I have never claimed it to be any guarantees signing unknown players, I have always said it would be gambles... but with the squad that we've got, I feel that we can afford a gamble or two. And namedropping flops doesn't mean everyone will turn out like that. Remember Roque? Benni? Bentley? Pedersen? Tugay? It's just a matter of being glass half empty or glass half full. Do some proper research before signing and things are less likely to go crashy crashy. Villanueva was signed by the words of his agent and a video, for gods sake.

And the "name another striker then" is pointless. There ARE strikers out there. Not necessarily strikers like Davies but there are alternatives. And I know Sam might want a target man and that is his prerogative... but it's not the ONLY way to go and as I said, we can afford a gamble or two.

I'm sorry but you have gone from securing our clubs long term future to having a gamble. Easy to do when its not your money. And tell me which of the players you quoted were signed with resale value in mind? And which were signed because they were the best available that WE could afford in the opinion of the manager at the time. We got lucky with Roque. Really lucky. I remember when he signed loads of people quoted his goal stats for Bayern as they have been doing with Davies. As it stands, a whole series of bizarre events has chained together to mean that we got £18m+ for him and to imply he was signed with that resale value in mind is disingenuous. As I said, if picking the next big thing was easy then every club would be doing it, which bizarrely would mean they wouldn't be cheap and we'd be back to square one.

[nicko]

Can we draw a veil on this for now. The point is that the manager knows who he wants. I'm sure there are many decent candidates about but there is only one guy whose opinion matters...and that's your boss.

It's going to be an interesting few days. It has also been an interesting few months when most of the names suggested have no doubt been researched already.

Keep it real. You have money you never saw coming from Roque's sale. It has changed the whole picture.

Now just leave it to the experts to make their moves and then take it from there.

It's a good giggle chucking names of possibles about, but ultimately it gets you nowhere. You just get fuistrated when they don't arrive because the club goes for someone less 'sexy.'

The great irony of the names put forward is that I know who Mister Z is - the alternative to Kevin Davies - and he has not been mentioned once.

He won't be my me either until the Davies thing is exhausted. That is the crunch here, what happens next on that front. And there is a fair way to go on that.

Evening all.

[Blue n White Rover]

What's the case with Dean Ashton? He would be a half decent signing...

[Billy Castell]

Mr. Z? Oh dear God.

[RovertheHill]

Can we draw a veil on this for now. The point is that the manager knows who he wants. I'm sure there are many decent candidates about but there is only one guy whose opinion matters...and that's your boss.

It's going to be an interesting few days. It has also been an interesting few months when most of the names suggested have no doubt been researched already.

Keep it real. You have money you never saw coming from Roque's sale. It has changed the whole picture.

Now just leave it to the experts to make their moves and then take it from there.

It's a good giggle chucking names of possibles about, but ultimately it gets you nowhere. You just get fuistrated when they don't arrive because the club goes for someone less 'sexy.'

The great irony of the names put forward is that I know who Mister Z is - the alternative to Kevin Davies - and he has not been mentioned once.

He won't be my me either until the Davies thing is exhausted. That is the crunch here, what happens next on that front. And there is a fair way to go on that.

Evening all.

Nicko - I read somewhere that Bolton are in for Doyle - is this them getting their contingency in place first and does it suggest they are resigned to Davies leaving. Or is it just paper talk?

[alexanders]

The great irony of the names put forward is that I know who Mister Z is - the alternative to Kevin Davies - and he has not been mentioned once.

You Tease

Is it about time with a new thread?

And it is not Cordoza who was mentioned earlier today?

[Taggart]

Can we draw a veil on this for now. The point is that the manager knows who he wants. I'm sure there are many decent candidates about but there is only one guy whose opinion matters...and that's your boss.

It's going to be an interesting few days. It has also been an interesting few months when most of the names suggested have no doubt been researched already.

Keep it real. You have money you never saw coming from Roque's sale. It has changed the whole picture.

Now just leave it to the experts to make their moves and then take it from there.

It's a good giggle chucking names of possibles about, but ultimately it gets you nowhere. You just get fuistrated when they don't arrive because the club goes for someone less 'sexy.'

The great irony of the names put forward is that I know who Mister Z is - the alternative to Kevin Davies - and he has not been mentioned once.

He won't be my me either until the Davies thing is exhausted. That is the crunch here, what happens next on that front. And there is a fair way to go on that.

Evening all.

Mr Z ...............? its not Devin Kavies is it ? :-)

[roversmum]

At this rate we'll have to start on Mr AA, etc...

[roverseas]

I'm sorry but you have gone from securing our clubs long term future to having a gamble. Easy to do when its not your money. And tell me which of the players you quoted were signed with resale value in mind? And which were signed because they were the best available that WE could afford in the opinion of the manager at the time. We got lucky with Roque. Really lucky. I remember when he signed loads of people quoted his goal stats for Bayern as they have been doing with Davies. As it stands, a whole series of bizarre events has chained together to mean that we got £18m+ for him and to imply he was signed with that resale value in mind is disingenuous. As I said, if picking the next big thing was easy then every club would be doing it, which bizarrely would mean they wouldn't be cheap and we'd be back to square one.

*Bangs head to wall*

Of course we don't buy for resale value alone, but spending our dear cash on players who aren't retiring within 2-3 seasons will at least give us the chance to get SOME of our money back, instead of nothing, while also providing us with a CHANCE to improve as a team. Getting 32 yo's for hefty fee's will make sure we'll have the exact same dilemma 2-3 years down the line except we haven't got the Roque money anymore and will have to settle for freebies and average Joe's. That's the difference between us signing Roque and us signing Davies. And I obviously didn't quote them because of their resale value - you were making an argument that Villanueva didn't succeed, I just put forward people who actually did succeed. I wrote about glass half full and glass half empty, remember? And no it won't be easy, that's why we call it gambles in the first place.

I've already said I feel we can afford a gamble or two because of the facts I put forward. Thanks for ignoring my entire point.

[67splitscreen]

At this rate we'll have to start on Mr AA, etc...

Mr AKA AA that way we know we've covered every player registered with FIFA.