[Archived] Bentley

[John]

Yes, Wenger is clever.

However, Wenger got rid of those players because they were either unhappy at the club (Reyes) or were past their sell by date (Henry).

Completely different!

You certainly will not get Wenger selling Cesc Fabregas when he is in top form, unless he really wanted to leave the club.

[Mozzer]

tugay4england-i mean this in a nice way-but thank god your only a fan and nothing more..

the suggestions you have made are simply laughable...

get 5million compensation for mark hughes-get allardyce in and diarra-and job done apparntly...

also sell david bentley-who is our best player..

you sell players when there not doing the business or want to leave-not when there playing out their skin and loving it at blackburn...

i want blackburn to be fighting for europe you obviously dont...

[Beta Ray Bill]

With the new tv deal, each merit position will be in excess of £500k I guess, so if we sell Bentley for £10m and that equates to half a dozen less assists and a few goals, probably means we'd dip a few positions as well. So the £10m suddenly becomes maybe £8m.

Fans don't think there's any point in following their favoured players as they don't stick around and the ambition is a Souey-style survival - trim off another couple of thousand from the gate.

Possible transfer targets see Rovers as a selling club going nowhere and dropping down the league with tumbling attendances. They think they don't fancy that so don't come leading to a weaker squad and yet further downward trends.

Exisiting players pick up these wonderfully positive vibes and either draw a salary cheque and think I need the (Lu)cash and go through the motions or just get pee-ed off and bail out.

Just a possible scenario if we start dispensing with the best talent in the squad.

[T4E]

tugay4england-i mean this in a nice way-but thank god your only a fan and nothing more..

the suggestions you have made are simply laughable...

get 5million compensation for mark hughes-get allardyce in and diarra-and job done apparntly...

also sell david bentley-who is our best player..

you sell players when there not doing the business or want to leave-not when there playing out their skin and loving it at blackburn...

i want blackburn to be fighting for europe you obviously dont...

Did you see the same interview with Sparky that I saw? You think carrying on with our current princples is going to keep him interested?

As has been said many times (and frequently ignored) - if you have a better idea, please share.

[DP]

Thenogrog/Tugay

First: Where's the romance gone guys? Yeah, yeah, football's not like that anymore but Bentley is our most promising player and we shouldn't "look to sell". We're pushing for a place in Europe still and form comes and goes in ALL sides. You have to remember we are a well run club punching above our weight. Let's continue this trend I say.

Alternatively: We get £25 million for being in the Premier League next season, and our status is pretty much secured. This means 2 things of course; wages go up, and transfer fees/clauses go up as well. Funnily enough, Bentley seems to get better each season as well. So if we're going to make the most out of our assets then you would only sell him now if you really thought he was overhyped and had fulfilled his potential. If this isn't the case you keep hold because you think the value is going to increase.

With regards to our missed opportunities how many clubs actually came in for Pedersen? We put a price on McCarthy and Chelsea failed to take it. Aside from that it's pretty obvious neither of these players have the long term potential of Bentley.

[T4E]

Thenogrog/Tugay

First: Where's the romance gone guys? Yeah, yeah, football's not like that anymore but Bentley is our most promising player and we shouldn't "look to sell". We're pushing for a place in Europe still and form comes and goes in ALL sides. You have to remember we are a well run club punching above our weight. Let's continue this trend I say.

Alternatively: We get £25 million for being in the Premier League next season, and our status is pretty much secured. This means 2 things of course; wages go up, and transfer fees/clauses go up as well. Funnily enough, Bentley seems to get better each season as well. So if we're going to make the most out of our assets then you would only sell him now if you really thought he was overhyped and had fulfilled his potential. If this isn't the case you keep hold because you think the value is going to increase.

With regards to our missed opportunities how many clubs actually came in for Pedersen? We put a price on McCarthy and Chelsea failed to take it. Aside from that it's pretty obvious neither of these players have the long term potential of Bentley.

Firstly, thank you for actually taking the time to address the points raised, rather than blindly dismissing them without opening your mind to the reasoning. Makes a pleasant change

In regards to your first point - I cannot get past our managers demeanour in the interview that prompted my original post. He is a man frustrated. He seems to revell in transfer market activity, and our lack of activity appears to be wearing thin. MH is a man we all know can identify a good player, get us a good deal and garner good performances once said player pulls on the blue and white. We MUST give him the chance to continue to do so. This is the only way I can see how.

I don't profess to be an expert on the financial side of the club, however I can imagine that a fair amount of the money gained through Premiership status is immediately swallowed up in running costs. As you say, wages go up. Staying a force in the market is only going to get more difficult.

None of us can truly say whether anyone came in for Pedersen. Likewise how far we got in selling McCarthy. In reference to the Pedersen/Bentley potential comparison, I guess hindsight is 20/20.

[tchocky]

Yes, Wenger is clever.

However, Wenger got rid of those players because they were either unhappy at the club (Reyes) or were past their sell by date (Henry).

Completely different!

You certainly will not get Wenger selling Cesc Fabregas when he is in top form, unless he really wanted to leave the club.

You've just conveniently avoided commenting on Cole and Vieira. And I don't think Henry is past his sell by date. He's 30 now and doing relatively well in Spain. And what about Anelka? Not a bad bit of business either. Funded their whole academy wasn't it?

[John]

Cole wanted to move to Chelsea. Wenger thought Henry had lost his sharpness because of the injuries he suffered.

And Anelka wanted to leave Arsenal!! It was not a case of Wenger forcing him out, completely opposite in fact.

So, what is your point again? Have you read any of my comments correctly?

[T4E]

You've just conveniently avoided commenting on Cole and Vieira. And I don't think Henry is past his sell by date. He's 30 now and doing relatively well in Spain. And what about Anelka? Not a bad bit of business either. Funded their whole academy wasn't it?

Ah, Anelka! Brilliant. Welcome aboard Danny boy

[tchocky]

So, what is your point again? Have you read any of my comments correctly?

Yes I have read your posts. I was eagerly following the discussion and was finding myself in agreement with T4E's view. I came to your response and was bemused by the way you responded, that is all. I think there is something to the thought that when Arsenal sell they do it as they see fit and not to accomodate the players wishes. Just as we should be doing.

[philipl]

Hmm, Rovers have just done exactly what T4E is advocating with Savage, haven't they?

[gumboots]

Hmm, Rovers have just done exactly what T4E is advocating with Savage, haven't they?

They've chosen the optimum moment for getting the cash though. Had Savage stayed longer his value would have gone down. There is still a reasonable chance that Bentley's value is still rising. Also Bentley is still contributing on the field whereas Savage was past his best and agitating for a move if rumour is to be believed. I think the club knows exactly what it is doing.

[roversmum]

support for Bents and the U21 England decision

[Eddie]

Cole wanted to move to Chelsea. Wenger thought Henry had lost his sharpness because of the injuries he suffered.

And Anelka wanted to leave Arsenal!! It was not a case of Wenger forcing him out, completely opposite in fact.

So, what is your point again? Have you read any of my comments correctly?

No, Wenger knew that last season was the best time to sell Henry. I'm sure he thought, like everyone else on the planet, that Henry was still good enough, even if he isn't quite as good anymore. He decided to sell him as he could still bring in good money, he wouldn't have flogged him for 5 million had no offers come in.

I do agree with T4E, sometimes you need to take advantage of your players value and sell them to fund more transfers. It's a bit of a risk, but if the trustees aren't giving us any money it may be the only option. If you can sell someone for 10 million and bring in two 5 million players who are good then the chances are you will have improved the side, even if those two players aren't individually as good as the player you have just sold. I'm not saying we should do that with Bentley just now, but we won't survive without money, so it may end up being the only option.

Sad really.

[John]

Well, I am talking about Bentley in particlular because he is arguably our best player. Also, this thread is on Bentley, so I am not going to look at every individual player sell that has ever taken place, and look at the reasons behind it.

On Henry, ask any Arsenal fan, and they will tell you he lost some of his pace during his final season with them. Injuries took their toll and they also knew they could play without him. Comparing his sale with doing something similar with DB just does not make sense.

As I said before, Hughes will not sell Bentley unless he really wants out.

Can't believe people are still discussing this!!!!

[Wolverine]

support for Bents and the U21 England decision

And why couldn't they have printed a supportive article at the time?

It isn't very brave over half a season on...

Anyway - yeah, sell for less than he's worth and while we are at it if we get over £500k offer for Brad we should take it. Also, Samba should be offered for £6m to any interested parties too.

[thenodrog]

As I said before, Hughes will not sell Bentley unless he really wants out.

Can't believe people are still discussing this!!!!

It's not particularly Bents that we are discussing it is about developing and selling talent to strengthen the club overall. 'Crewe Alex' of the prem is not a bad role model to aim for..... as long as we have a scouting system, manager and board all capable of sustaining it...... and that is prob the biggest difficulty.

[Wolverine]

I can understand the arguments in favour, but do we really want to go down this line?

At the moment we are paying a decent price for tickets to see some of the best footballers in the world. If we sell our best talents we will invariably end up in a lower league with no chance of a decent future unless the next Jack Walker comes along.

Then we will be paying at least the same to watch a much poorer standard of football.

[thenodrog]

With the new tv deal, each merit position will be in excess of £500k I guess, so if we sell Bentley for £10m and that equates to half a dozen less assists and a few goals, probably means we'd dip a few positions as well. So the £10m suddenly becomes maybe £8m.

You are not thinking this through. You are making the mistake of assuming that we simply carry on without Bentley's talents. Of course we would be weaker and of course our league position will suffer but the business plan would not allow for that. To follow the plans according to Wenger (and up to now Hughes) we would only sell a player when we have adequate or better replacements either lined up or waiting in the wings.

Have you forgotten that we used Neills transfer money to buy the already lined up Warnock.... has anybody complained about that? No cos imo Warnock is worth double the value that he was when he came. We used Todds wage etc to get RSC, Bellamy's to land Roberts and Benny Mac. Anybody complaining about any of those deals? I'm certainly not but the renting of clothes and gnashing of teeth on here when Bellamy went to Lpool could prob be heard in Burnley!

Read this again from the past page....

"It's obvious that if clubs will pay 90k per week for Diarra then our best players prodded by their Mr 20%'s will demand parity with that or they'll be off to where the grass is greener. Whatever the going rate is BRFC don't set it nor can BRFC exist in it's own bubble.

As I said in an earlier post the time to sell Bentley is when Capello makes him an England regular. Not just because we cannot afford to miss what would be a very large large transfer fee but more because we might not be able to afford to pay him. "

Selling Bentley one day will not be our choice! If he plays for England it will be inevitable! We need to prepare for that certainty now and not the week after he has gone.

[thenodrog]

At the moment we are paying a decent price for tickets to see some of the best footballers in the world. If we sell our best talents we will invariably end up in a lower league with no chance of a decent future unless the next Jack Walker comes along.

No. We are paying a heavily discounted price. If this experiment is deemed to have failed then putting the prices BACK to the level they were at will be disastrous. BRFC fans in general have shorter memories than goldfish and imo carry no gratitude whatsoever.

[Wolverine]

Yes - a heavily discounted price which is also a decent price. They aren't mutually exclusive.

I just hope as a fan that whatever the future is, we don't become a selling club.

[gumboots]

You are not thinking this through. You are making the mistake of assuming that we simply carry on without Bentley's talents. Of course we would be weaker and of course our league position will suffer but the business plan would not allow for that. To follow the plans according to Wenger (and up to now Hughes) we would only sell a player when we have adequate or better replacements either lined up or waiting in the wings.

Have you forgotten that we used Neills transfer money to buy the already lined up Warnock.... has anybody complained about that? No cos imo Warnock is worth double the value that he was when he came. We used Todds wage etc to get RSC, Bellamy's to land Roberts and Benny Mac. Anybody complaining about any of those deals? I'm certainly not but the renting of clothes and gnashing of teeth on here when Bellamy went to Lpool could prob be heard in Burnley!

Read this again from the past page....

"It's obvious that if clubs will pay 90k per week for Diarra then our best players prodded by their Mr 20%'s will demand parity with that or they'll be off to where the grass is greener. Whatever the going rate is BRFC don't set it nor can BRFC exist in it's own bubble.

As I said in an earlier post the time to sell Bentley is when Capello makes him an England regular. Not just because we cannot afford to miss what would be a very large large transfer fee but more because we might not be able to afford to pay him. "

Selling Bentley one day will not be our choice! If he plays for England it will be inevitable! We need to prepare for that certainty now and not the week after he has gone.

Preparing for the eventuality i.e. having other players in your sights who you could see being able to do a job at your club, and actively seeking to sell now or at any immediate future date are 2 different things though. We all accept that at some time we will have to sell David, either because we need cash, he really wants to go or we simply can't afford to keep him. However, we should not be looking to offload him at the moment as some on here sem to be advocating.

[S15]

I just hope as a fan that whatever the future is, we don't become a selling club.

Of course we are a selling club.

It is just rare that we get talent those who can buy want to buy...

But when we do... They go.

[tchocky]

It is just rare that we get talent those who can buy want to buy...

Not entirely true. There's plenty of teams below us in the food chain. We're just not quite at the top.

[philipl]

1) We signed Bellamy, Bentley, McCarthy and santa Cruz in the past three seasons

2) We are set up to be a club with great loyalty and team spirit- look what happened when the winner went in today

3) If we were to be an Auxerre, then we would need a much higher quality of youngster coming through and to play them

4) I suspect our destiny is to be a club who feeds on the excess of brilliant 22/23 year olds that the Academy systems of the Big 4 will have to spin out because they are surplus to requirements. The only problem is the Big 4 would rather those players not hang around the Prem because they know how good they are. Arsenal beat us with probably numbers 21 to 31- they have 12 to 16 wanting to start, 17 to 20 neither starting nor in the kids' team and by all accounts numbers 32 to 44 who are as good as 21 to 31 but younger! And no doubt there is a conveyor belt bringing yet more in every year. The pickings from that lot are going to be enormous- all our scouting should be done at London Colney (Arsenal's training ground).