[Archived] Bentley

[T4E]

This is doolally land.

Touting means getting agents involved means agent fees. Bye bye Bentley for £12m means £1.2m to the agent and probably triggers an end of contract kicker/loyalty bonus payment to Bentley because we effected the sale.

Lets say we get £10m net and save £35k current wages.

Lets say we get Fletcher and Diarohea for £5.5m each. Fletcher at Man U will be on at £35k now so his wages would be £45k if we are lucky, ditto the chap who'd only go to Newcastle for £90k per week.

End result, wages have lept by £55k a week putting upwards pressure throughout the squad, we will be £1m out of pocket on transfers even though fans will think we still have £1m to spend plus there will be other transaction costs- moving help etc.

The real killer is the wages which are now £3m per year higher than they were or £12m over 4 years contracts.

No- it doesn't work. Now if you sell Santa Cruz as well and don't replace him ....

If we weren't in doolally land already you definitely dragged us there kicking and screaming.

If you know of a way to complete transfers without agents being involved then I'm sure Mssrs Hughes and Williams would love to hear from you.

You've missed the point by pulling apart the Fletcher/Diarra/Diarohea (yes, very clever) examples - the players are irrelevant - I was illustrating what could be done with the money. Your arguement is based on guess work on both wages and transfer fees. Not to mention neglecting to include money made and wages saved through the sale of Savage as mentioned in my post.

As far as selling Santa Cruz goes, I'm sure I addressed that in the very post you quoted, regarding selling a 20-25 goal a season striker (which, pro rata atleast, Santa is). It's actually rather unclear as to why exactly you signed off with that comment.

[T4E]

The principle is sound but I think with Bentley the timing is not quite right. He could be worth much more if he becomes an England regular under Capello.

I absolutely agree. I must stress that my original post asked whether "right now may be the time to [sell] Bentley".

It may well be worth hanging on to see if he establishes himself in the England squad. There is always the fear though that a long term injury (or series of) could strike, the type of which that in recent years have robbed us of superb players like Jansen, Reid, Dunn and Thompson. None of these players (thus far) managed to get back to their previous best. Missing out yet again would be a disaster for a club of our size.

If pushed at the moment I'd probably decide to keep hold until the Summer, atleast until Capello's intentions have been established. However if the club decided now was the time to cash in, I'd understand exactly why.

[philipl]

T4e I threw in RSC as an illustration of where the additional wage saving would have to come from. There is no budgetary headroom for a £3m a year increase in wages which your scheme envisages- the issue right now for the Rovers is not funding transfer fees, it is the wages that are following.

The difficulty the alternative theories are struggling with is the Rovers are pursuing a strategy which is working-

Finding excellent players who have become disillusioned at larger clubs who therefore are going to enjoy their football more and be more (relatively) reluctant to risk a move back to a big club.

Paying one or more increments linked each time to contract extensions

Sending out as strong a message as possible you are not a selling club so you hang onto your exceptional players whilst shuffling the pack to improve the quality of the rest.

This is at the moment working and appears sustainable in the foreseeable future. Rovers are comfortably top half of the Premiership despite having the lowest gate income in the league (I believe Wigan and Bolton prices compensate for having smaller numbers). Basing our strategy on anticipated injury incapacitation to the extent you sell good players who might get injured is doolally.

[thenodrog]

T4e I threw in RSC as an illustration of where the additional wage saving would have to come from. There is no budgetary headroom for a £3m a year increase in wages which your scheme envisages- the issue right now for the Rovers is not funding transfer fees, it is the wages that are following.

Yeah but you used Diarra, Fletcher etc as examples. Is it the same using the initial salary requirements of RSC and Samba?

The difficulty the alternative theories are struggling with is the Rovers are pursuing a strategy which is working-

Finding excellent players who have become disillusioned at larger clubs who therefore are going to enjoy their football more and be more (relatively) reluctant to risk a move back to a big club.

Bellamy?

Sending out as strong a message as possible you are not a selling club so you hang onto your exceptional players whilst shuffling the pack to improve the quality of the rest. This is at the moment working and appears sustainable in the foreseeable future. Rovers are comfortably top half of the Premiership despite having the lowest gate income in the league (I believe Wigan and Bolton prices compensate for having smaller numbers). Basing our strategy on anticipated injury incapacitation to the extent you sell good players who might get injured is doolally.

[thenodrog]

Except that going that route we wont be in the Prem for long. Should find our level about mid-table in Div 1 with that strategy.

if we become a selling club we'll eventually go on a downward spiral too.........

...........and i'd rather we went down fighting, trying to keep our best players and selling only when we absolutely had to, than tamely whore our best players when the big clubs come knocking.

Sending out as strong a message as possible you are not a selling club so you hang onto your exceptional players whilst shuffling the pack to improve the quality of the rest.

err I don't get this! Have you lot no memories whatsoever? With the exception of the time that BRFC fans spent on 'Fantasy Island' i.e. the fabulous Jack Walker years we have been a selling club since the abolishment of the maximum wage! We just did it badly. Like most clubs we were set up with idealist supporters as directors rather than realist businessmen. We sold our best players in those days to the likes of QPR, Wolves, LUFC, Villa etc. I'm simply suggesting that we do the same but at a higher level.

[thenodrog]

Suggestions how are we going to cope with another ramp up in wages?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1779

[Wolverine]

If we could be a selling club and still challenge for Europe, I think you would get more support.

Unfortunately I doubt we could and I would rather see the worlds best talent at Ewood regular while we can, rather than watching the likes of Ade Akinbiyi and Robbie Blake.

Fact is that Bentley is our most exciting prospect and arguably our best player. We are in with a shout of Europe again and to give that up for some short term cash we probably wouldn't be able to spend anyway is farcicle. Had we sold Gamst, I would understand it due to the lack of form, and had we sold Benni, I would put it down to attitude and age. If we sell Bentley, I will be even angrier than when we sold Duff.

I know we can't stave off a return to the lower leagues forever, but should we really sell our best talent to bring in some poor imitations?

[philipl]

The short answer is we cannot handle another ramp up in wages.

Ashley bought into Newcastle opportunistically but has seemingly become a fan director with cash to burn. OK Newcastle are to be the new Chelsea but unlike Abramovich, will not be sitting on double your money assets after burning through £500m.

At the same time as Newcastle are going loopy, Man City and West Ham are putting the breaks on wages whilst it is clear that Man U are hardly being a soft touch with Wes Brown.

Lets see how much spare cash is sloshing around for footballers as the financial crisis bites.

As for the examples I used, they were t4e's. Bellamy came to Ewood on the back of a disciplinary problem, not a bad footballing experience in the way that Bentley and Roque had. But for Bellamy's clause, the track record of Hughes in keeping the players he wanted to keep has been exemplary. Indeed since the turn of the century I can only think of Dunn, Duff and Ferguson as other sales when we didn't want to and two of those were also for reasons other than money. Hardly the track record of a selling club whilst we have been in the ownership of the Trustees and about equal with the likes of Spurs.

[Jan]

Indeed since the turn of the century I can only think of Dunn, Duff and Ferguson as other sales when we didn't want to and two of those were also for reasons other than money. Hardly the track record of a selling club whilst we have been in the ownership of the Trustees and about equal with the likes of Spurs.

Dunn we (as in the paying public) may not have wanted him to go but the manager certainly did.

[T4E]

T4e I threw in RSC as an illustration of where the additional wage saving would have to come from. There is no budgetary headroom for a £3m a year increase in wages which your scheme envisages- the issue right now for the Rovers is not funding transfer fees, it is the wages that are following.

The difficulty the alternative theories are struggling with is the Rovers are pursuing a strategy which is working-

Finding excellent players who have become disillusioned at larger clubs who therefore are going to enjoy their football more and be more (relatively) reluctant to risk a move back to a big club.

Paying one or more increments linked each time to contract extensions

Sending out as strong a message as possible you are not a selling club so you hang onto your exceptional players whilst shuffling the pack to improve the quality of the rest.

This is at the moment working and appears sustainable in the foreseeable future. Rovers are comfortably top half of the Premiership despite having the lowest gate income in the league (I believe Wigan and Bolton prices compensate for having smaller numbers). Basing our strategy on anticipated injury incapacitation to the extent you sell good players who might get injured is doolally.

The possibility of injury/loss of form is one worth bearing in mind. To ignore it having been stung by it so many times before would be doolally.

The £3m a year wage bill increase is a complete fabrication on your part. You've guessed Fletcher's wages, you've guessed Diarra's, and you've ignored (again) the wages saved from the sale of Savage.

Of course the wage bill needs looking after - we wouldn't very well sell 1 player, strengthen in 3 positions, and then keep the fringe players currently vying for those positions that have been pushed further down the pecking order.

The wage bill itself is another worthy consideration. If we are to continue to improve, we must create headroom in this area, as other clubs around us can afford to pay wages that we cannot. The key is not to keep it at its current level, it is to find a safe way to increase what we budget for.

As I said before, the likes of West Ham, Portsmouth, Man City, Everton and Aston Villa have all caught up/taken over us in recent seasons. Newcastle and Spurs cannot be far behind and will eventually find their natural place above us. We cannot carry on as we are, in the long term we will find the level where our current strategies are more at home.

[Mozzer]

why dont we sell bentley for 15million , santa cruz for 10million-our two best players, but it leaves us with 25million to spend on a couple of players...

[philipl]

I probably guessed low on the wages of both your examples t4e.

So we say to Bentley: "Sorry, we know you like it here but we are selling you because a crippling injury might reduce your value to us."

[T4E]

I probably guessed low on the wages of both your examples t4e.

So we say to Bentley: "Sorry, we know you like it here but we are selling you because a crippling injury might reduce your value to us."

I know you're a hopeless romantic Phil supping from an eternally half full glass, but do you honestly believe we'd need to drag Bentley to Stamford Bridge kicking and screaming?!

I'm saying we consider the possibility, do some analysis on his current value, potential value, likelihood for growth, current interest, likely interest, etc, etc, and make an informed decision. As I keep saying (and you keep ignoring), I probably wouldn't sell right now, but I'd sure as hell look in to it. The whole club was valued at roughly £60m in the Summer. We're talking about a single asset possibly making up 1/5 of the clubs value.

Or we could dismiss the idea out of hand and sign Amdy Faye.

[Hughesy]

On sky sports from Williams.

Bentley not for Sale!

[Presty On Tour]

on the rovers official site, bentley is in the match mag top 50

[thenodrog]

The short answer is we cannot handle another ramp up in wages......

So we say to Bentley: "Sorry, we know you like it here but we are selling you because a crippling injury might reduce your value to us."

John Williams from Sky sports

"We stated recently that we wanted to sit down with David and his agent to discuss a new deal. He only signed a new contract in the recent past but we felt that his performances this season were such that it warranted us to sit down with him and discuss a new contract and talks are progressing well."

Means we ARE having to ramp up his wages as the premier league madness continues to escalate..... or it sounds like if we don't his agent will have him away in double quick time Philip! Pontificate around the houses all you like but if we are to compete at this level we need to raise money. We are a bad investment, our gate receipts and income from merchandise and corporate hosptality is minimal. That is a fact! So that only leaves player development and transfers as a realistic income stream. We are slowly but surely getting painted into a corner just like we were in the 60's.

[thenodrog]

on the rovers official site, bentley is in the match mag top 50

I do hope his head is soon better.

[blue phil]

I have noticed it swelling recently .........I'm sure he'll give an interview in some medical journal in due course .

[Wolverine]

do you honestly believe we'd need to drag Bentley to Stamford Bridge kicking and screaming?!

Yes. He won't get first team football there. He might as well go back to Arsenal...

[T4E]

Who was the last player who, when a proposed transfer from a club our size to Chelsea has been on the table, has turned it down on the basis of perhaps not getting first team football? It's a huge pay day for any player in a relatively short career, and almost all would accept it.

Sidwell, Wright-Phillips, Parker, Duff, Lampard, Joe Cole, Bridge, Ben Haim, Anelka - this is the market Chelsea shop in, and not a Premiership player at a club of that size would turn them down. I'm amazed anyone still thinks otherwise.

[herbergeehh]

Paul Merson has slammed Bentley for branding the Arsenal atmosphere "boring", 'if he wants laughs he should be a comedian, losing 4-1 to Coventry doesn't sound fun to me'..

I might be wrong, but isn't those comments from Bentley about a year old? Merson's just woken up ? ...

Don't really see anything wrong with appreciating a good team spirit and mood in a group, to be honest.

[Alan75]

Bents Gets Last Laugh

[rover6]

Alan, seriously, that is just pathetic.

Unless there is some highly subtle irony going on there - How can you even compare a hammering by the paupers of Coventry to one by Tottenham's first team? Let alone suggest that the latter is even more risible?!

You are being blinded by your support for Rovers. Merson is right, put away your bias for a second and think about it. You made a comment in another thread about the Premiership being blighted by complacent players - if the Arsenal regime is as disciplined, laugh-free, analytical zone as Bentley makes out, perhaps it's the best environment to prevent complacency. How often do you hear of a awful Arsenal performance? Far less than Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea - I suggest.

[LeftWinger]

How often do you hear of a awful Arsenal performance? Far less than Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea - I suggest.

Depends what you class as awful - but I've seen a few poor displays by Arsenal recently.

They won't get near to United this season - Chelsea are the most likely challengers IMO.

[mattyboy6000]

Paul Merson has slammed Bentley for branding the Arsenal atmosphere "boring", 'if he wants laughs he should be a comedian, losing 4-1 to Coventry doesn't sound fun to me'..

I might be wrong, but isn't those comments from Bentley about a year old? Merson's just woken up ? ...

or come down?!?!

badum tish