[Archived] Bentley

[LWX]

Duff gave us a totally different dynamic to the team than what Bentley does. They're completely different types of players and we've changed the way the build-up play happens since the Duff days so it's not as simple as saying Duff is better than Bentley.

I know, but that's what being a footy fan is all about, so here goes.....Duffer is better than Bentley ever was or will be.

[philipl]

Highly unlikely, perhaps 15-20% as exampled by MGP with Tromso & Beattie when moving to everton.

I realy doubt that Arsenal have a sell-on clause that high, when they didn't even bother to arrange a first option fixed re-sale on the player.

It was Beattie whom I had in mind bearing in mind we got double the price we paid for Bentley, got a 20% onward-transfer fee clause and he moved eight years ago!

What was the situation on Bentley's Arsenal contract when he moved to Rovers? Even if he were a free agent, he would still have cost £500kish under the compensation rules for under-23 year old players leaving the club that had developed them.

I hope I am wrong but fear that I am not.

[S15]

With Bent going for £16 million, SWP going for £21 million, how much would you value Bentley at? £12 million???

It's not that black and white.

Chelsea have ended their 'mugs in the market' period and we would have more chance of a huge fee if Newcastle or Spurs came in for him.

This is because if one of the big 4 come in then the player will want out, immediately. However, the player can usually take it or leave it when it's Spurs or Newcy, as it's a step up, but not the the highest possible level, so this leaves the club in a stronger bargaining position.

If Bentley leaves for one of the big 4 we will get £12m ish.

[brian_gallagher85]

I know, but that's what being a footy fan is all about, so here goes.....Duffer is better than Bentley ever was or will be.

Replace the last "is" with "was" please?

[RibbleValleyRover]

If Bentley leaves for one of the big 4 we will get £12m ish.

I guess we will have to wait and see if anything develops then... but i still think £12 million is too low.

[trueblue]

With years left on his contract, and hopefully the absence of any 'clause'.. then David's value is whatever Rovers put on him

[RevidgeBlue]

50% (my guess) of which will go to Arsenal.....

There is nothing currently to suggest there is any sell on clause relating to Bentley.

Either from our end or Arsenal sources.

[blue phil]

With years left on his contract, and hopefully the absence of any 'clause'.. then David's value is whatever Rovers put on him

Eh ? The value is what other clubs are prepared to pay for him and how much he wants to leave . The more clubs interested the higher the price is likely to be .

There are no signs of that many clubs in such a position . Unlikely to go back to Arsenal , not good (or at least consistent) enough for UTD or Chelsea , Liverpool in internal strife ; it only leaves Spurs or Everton and the likes . They won't break the bank .

Not much above £10 m I'd guess .

[blue phil]

50% (my guess) of which will go to Arsenal.....

With Philipl's figures I usually halve ......and then halve again . Then a reasonably accurate figure is usually arrived at .

If there is a clause it'll be about 12.5%

[trueblue]

Eh ? The value is what other clubs are prepared to pay for him and how much he wants to leave .

So Rovers have no value on DB then? they'll just wait and see what offers come in? ... 'you'll only give us £10M for Bentley Mr Charsenool, then that's what he must be worth'

[rog of the rovers]

I agree with some of the posts, Bentley is under contract at Rovers, so if you want him, give us £20 million, if your not prepared to give us that, then we'll hang on to him.

[bobsterbrfc]

David Bentley, though very good, I've said on here before I think he is over-rated, shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath in terms of "value to the team's success" as Damien Duff. I really don't think it's ignorant or obnoxious to completely ignore any other suggestion as there isn't any debate.

[Hughesy]

Agreed - going off todays market anything lower than £15m is too low!!

I guess we will have to wait and see if anything develops then... but i still think £12 million is too low.

[neekoy]

With three years left on his contract at 12 million you are looking at a return of 4 million a year.

Would you sell him for 4 million if he was in his last year?

I think figures of 18 to 20 are more realistic.

[Mr. E]

I may be overreacting, but please someone tell me what is the point anymore? What is the point of football and why should we care about it? It seems like a club has two options: either it is crap and goes nowhere, or it progresses and its good players are immediately raided, throwing everything back to square one.

I don't know....

[johnradfordsubbuteo]

I may be overreacting, but please someone tell me what is the point anymore? What is the point of football and why should we care about it? It seems like a club has two options: either it is crap and goes nowhere, or it progresses and its good players are immediately raided, throwing everything back to square one.

I don't know....

You are most certainly not overreacting. It is football's catch 22 and no mistake. Unless the club can outspend Chelsea then 5th is the best position ever achievable. I corrected myself to "club" rather than "we". We must always remember that "we" are not the club. Maintain a healthy sense of detachment.

There is no point. Just ask Albert Camus. And certainly no point in supporting a football club with it's reflected glory and defeat as an orphan. Hmm marvellous. Mixed metaphors.

Arrgghhhhh..... Still can't wait to do the Tottenham Hotspurs. Got to love it aintcha?

[joey_big_nose]

Eh ? The value is what other clubs are prepared to pay for him and how much he wants to leave . The more clubs interested the higher the price is likely to be .

There are no signs of that many clubs in such a position . Unlikely to go back to Arsenal , not good (or at least consistent) enough for UTD or Chelsea , Liverpool in internal strife ; it only leaves Spurs or Everton and the likes . They won't break the bank .

Not much above £10 m I'd guess .

Its an interesting dynamic. I suppose it sort of depends on moral pressure really. There is no reason why any player, given the opportunity and interest from a big club, cannot throw a hissy fit (a la Barry Ferguson) and force his way out for way under his market value. He can just decline to play. There is nothing to prevent him from doing that.

However Bentley, like all players and employees the world over, will feel a debt to the club and want to leave on terms that are fair. The only way I can see it working is that:

1. Bentley is informed of the interest of a club and goes to see MH and JW.

2. JW and MH sound out how interested Bentley is in the move.

3. If they decide he is interested enough to make him staying at Ewood problematic they outline to Bentley what they think a reasonable sum to be paid for him would be, and say that if they get offered less that that they cannot accept the offer.

4. If Bentley feels the price is unreasonably high he makes this clear.

Whats interesting is if we get to 4) there are different things that can happen. As said Barry forced his way out. Roberts on the other hand got his head down and worked hard. Problem for us is that Bentley, unlike Roberts, is hot property so there will be more offers on the table.

So in a way we not only need to worry about how much other clubs are going to offer but also how much Bentley himself thinks he is worth. In this way his ego might work to our advantage, hopefully seeing a large transfer price being a boon rather than an obstacle.

If however he reckons that 10m is more than adequately compensate the club for losing his services (and there is an argument for this) then we might be seeing a lot less than we would otherwise hope.

[bluebruce]

However, the player can usually take it or leave it when it's Spurs or Newcy, as it's a step up

Is it buggery. Newcastle is no step up.

As to Bentley's value/asking price/whatever. I believe his value within the market is around 15 million. When you look at some of the tosh banded around in that price bracket, and the recent TV cash (I wouldn't have been happy selling him at 10 last year) that's not an unfair statement at all. By that token, if we get 10-15 million, I for one will feel we've been ripped off. If we get 15, I'll be dissatisfied, because his value to the club is higher than his value to the market, as he is one of our best players, perhaps our best player. Helping Liverpool finish one league place higher would be much less valuable to them than helping us finish a good three or four places higher would be to us. If we got 20, I'd understand, but not exactly be pleased, but it'd take closer to 25 for me to actually be very pleased with it and feel we were getting a good deal.

I don't agree with Neekoy's understanding that Bentley's value is purely in terms of the amount of years left on his contract (it does matter, of course, but if we signed him on a 30 year deal he wouldn't be worth 120 million...when the contract is running down to the last year, maybe two, it starts to affect his value, that's all). A better way to look at it is the amount of years left in his career. We can assume that Bentley will at least remain at his current level for the next 8-10 years. He may get better, he may drop off a bit. He may last longer, he may last less time. We can't tell, so let's assume it's the same. Neekoy said he wouldn't sell Bentley at 4 million if he was in the last year of his contract. Well if he's got 10 years in him, even 20 million is only 2 million a year. And I certainly wouldn't sell him at that.

[roversmum]

Why do people keep going on about Duff? Yes, he was fantastic, but he's long gone, that was then, this is now.

[Hughesy]

Clubs that could be interested are –

Tottenham & Newcastle

Clubs that are apparently interested already –

Seville, Valencia, Man City & Liverpool

Going off that list of clubs alone – You’re already starting the bidding at over £10m. Pennant cost Liverpool £7m and he isn’t half the player of Bentley. Jenas cost £7m 3 years ago! So now in today’s inflated marked - £10m is nowhere near enough, even if Bentley drags his high heels for a move.

Im sure there are other clubs interested too, maybe one or two Italians or maybe other big name Europeans depending on what action happens this summer following the Euro’s.

£15m is the absolute minimum that we must demand – ideally more but I doubt it!

[bobsterbrfc]

the Duff comparison brings quickly needed perspective

[joey_big_nose]

Clubs that could be interested are –

Tottenham & Newcastle

Clubs that are apparently interested already –

Seville, Valencia, Man City & Liverpool

Going off that list of clubs alone – You’re already starting the bidding at over £10m. Pennant cost Liverpool £7m and he isn’t half the player of Bentley. Jenas cost £7m 3 years ago! So now in today’s inflated marked - £10m is nowhere near enough, even if Bentley drags his high heels for a move.

Im sure there are other clubs interested too, maybe one or two Italians or maybe other big name Europeans depending on what action happens this summer following the Euro’s.

£15m is the absolute minimum that we must demand – ideally more but I doubt it!

If Bentley drags his heels and performs poorly his value will incredibly quickly drop. If you need convincing look at a certain MGP.

It depends who comes in with serious bids. Best chance of a high fee for us is if Liverpool and Spurs get in a bidding war. Problem is Liverpool have become pretty canny about the fees they will pay, only spending massive money on proven world class players (Torres, Mascherano). For their more standard players the outlay has not been enormous. 15m for Bentley is the sort of transfer that only Chelsea have performed a few times (Duff, SWP) and Man Utd once (Carrick). Arsenal and Liverpool have never spent that sort of money on a relatively untried international player, irrespective of whether he is english. Spurs did spend 16m on Bent though....

Lets face it. Despite the media hubbub, it is clear to see that Bentley is not Torres, Rooney, Tevez. Personally I would say you would have to be pretty nutty to spend 15m on Bents. I am sure Benitez would feel he could get more quality for that money. We have to rely on someone having a brain meltdown a la Carrick/Bent/SWP.

[bluebruce]

In the footballing world it is. Many people on this board said Hughes wouldn't have taken the Newcastle job as it's a posioned chalice and I can understand why, but seriously, players and managers will look at clubs expectation levels and resources and see the ambition or level that the club is supposed to be reaching. Look at the resources that Newcastle have and they probably should be in the top six.

They should have been in the top six for several years, and haven't been. Instead, they've routinely finished below us- the last time they finished above us was by one place, and they were nowhere near that top six. In fact, where they SHOULD be, is roughly where we are and have been. So why go to a club that has the potential to be where we are? Sure, you'd probably get paid a fair bit more, but then the reason wouldn't be because it was a step up anymore. If I was a footballer at: Everton, Portsmouth, City, Blackburn, or Villa, or even West Ham, I just wouldn't bother moving to Newcastle right now unless I wasn't wanted at my own club anymore.

[bluebruce]

If Bentley drags his heels and performs poorly his value will incredibly quickly drop. If you need convincing look at a certain MGP.

And Benni of course. With Bentley though, I dunno, he just seems too ambitious, particularly re: playing for England, to let his performances slide. Especially at a club that gave him his big break that he confesses he owes a lot to. With Benni and Gamst it's a little different- both are undisputed regulars for their countries. Benni got his break elsewhere and had several Prem suitors, and Gamst also had several Prem suitors before coming. Bentley owes us more, and has a lot to play for outside of the club itself.

It's a decent point about Jenas...lesser player, was even at a club that had been relegated, and had a troubled past. And yet they got 7 million. Partly because he was safely under contract, like Bentley is. If he doesn't sign, we'll have to look at getting rid next year though while we can still get an acceptable value.

[den]

They should have been in the top six for several years, and haven't been. Instead, they've routinely finished below us- the last time they finished above us was by one place, and they were nowhere near that top six. In fact, where they SHOULD be, is roughly where we are and have been. So why go to a club that has the potential to be where we are?

Because, year after year, newcastle will be in a far superior financial position to rovers, able to give a manager ample transfer funds, thanks to gates of 52000 every week. That's why.