[Archived] Bentley

[philipl]

There have been two top international coaches at Spurs and both have formed the same conclusion about Lennon. That's why Spuds are in the market for a winger because they haven't got one at the moment.

[RibbleValleyRover]

There have been two top international coaches at Spurs and both have formed the same conclusion about Lennon. That's why Spuds are in the market for a winger because they haven't got one at the moment.

And you have the coaches at Leeds, a club famous for bringing through young talent.

[LeChuck]

There have been two top international coaches at Spurs and both have formed the same conclusion about Lennon. That's why Spuds are in the market for a winger because they haven't got one at the moment.

It's not that black and white at all. Bentley failed at Arsenal but we managed to develop him.

People seem to be forgetting that Lennon is only 21, he has a lot of improvement left in him yet. Ronaldo's final ball was dreadful in his first few seasons at Man Utd, but look how much he's come on since then. I'm not suggesting Lennon can get to anywhere near that level, but he does have the raw tools to be a good player.

Lennon will obviously never have the quality on the ball that Bentley has...but then his pace and dribbling can get him in to positions that Bentley can never get himself in to. I'd definitely be happy with a cash + Lennon deal if Bentley leaves, but I'd prefer more cash or a better player to replace Ghaly. Realistically I don't think we'll get a better (or at least a player with as much potential) as Lennon to replace Bentley if he leaves.

[cn_barlow]

If Lennon was in our squad now he would be in and about the first team. He is a good player and he is still young....and he is exciting to watch. He is the type of player who will get people out of their seats.

In fairness i thought Bentley was turd until a year ago, players mature at different ages

[BRFC1995]

lennon can't cross, track back or add much other than pace when your 5'4", and what people see in huddlestone is a mystery to me. Either keep Bents or take nothing less than £18m cash!!! Then go and get some technically gifted europeans of south americans, don't touch what spuds don't want that team has more deadwood on its wagelist than any other club in the league.

This is a non starter anyway as he'd have to be a seriously cash hungry money grabber to choose a 2 bit club in the big smoke over the champions league at a giant of world football in mersyside..........................oh hang on we've been here before!

[RibbleValleyRover]

People seem to be forgetting that Lennon is only 21, he has a lot of improvement left in him yet. Ronaldo's final ball was dreadful in his first few seasons at Man Utd, but look how much he's come on since then. I'm not suggesting Lennon can get to anywhere near that level, but he does have the raw tools to be a good player.

I just can't see it happening. My leeds mate says he hasn't shown any improvement whatsoever in that department and he has seen him both at Leeds and Spurs. He has had decent coaches all his career and he hasn't shown any improvement in the crossing and shooting department.

Lennon will obviously never have the quality on the ball that Bentley has...but then his pace and dribbling can get him in to positions that Bentley can never get himself in to.

And do what? He gets past the defense tries to put a ball into the box and fails spectacularly, how is Roque going to feed off that service?

Utter madness if you think Lennon is a good enough replacement for our main assister and most creative player.

[joey_big_nose]

If this has got legs then I would say it is a good deal. Lennon and Huddlestone plus 7m and we would be laughing. We would have got in pace and a "Tugay replacement" and enough money tro go out and buy someone like Farfan.

Everybody who has had a go at Lennon and Huddlestone - they are good players, they might not have had a great time at Spurs but hat is the market we work in. If they had been brilliant at Spurs we would not be able to afford them. Like Bentley, Cruz, Warnock etc. our coaches have to see wheher with the right handling we can turn them into the players they promise to be.

[RibbleValleyRover]

If this has got legs then I would say it is a good deal. Lennon and Huddlestone plus 7m and we would be laughing. We would have got in pace and a "Tugay replacement" and enough money tro go out and buy someone like Farfan.

Pace and nothing else. Why is there this obsession with pace in the modern game? whats the point of having pace as a winger and not the end product. Again i raise the point, who is going to provide the service to Roque if Bentley goes? It sure wouldn't be Lennon.

If Bentley goes it should be for cash only, that way we can find a decent replacement, not get average players in a swap deal.

[Eddie]

Why is there an obsession with pace? Because it's amazingly dangerous. We totally lack any pace and suffer from it. Just think of the times when Bellamy's or Duff's pace allowed us to stretch a game. Of course they were both good players, but sometimes what they did required no skill apart from the physical ability.

I don't know why everyone on here thinks Lennon is a horrible player. He's a good talent. He has a huge amount of pace, which is good for any side and something we need. He does score the odd goal. His crossing isn't amazing, but the drop off in crossing is made up for by the fact that his pace opens up new options.

If we could bring in a lot of money, plus Lennon as a direct replacement plus a player to slot into central midfield it would be a wonderful piece of business in my opinion, although I very much doubt that such an offer will ever be made.

[den]

If we could bring in a lot of money, plus Lennon as a direct replacement plus a player to slot into central midfield it would be a wonderful piece of business in my opinion, although I very much doubt that such an offer will ever be made.

Eddie, I don't honestly think that I would be happy with a situation where we were replacing possibly the best right sided midfield player in the league, with someone inferior, - no matter that there might be a little more money available to "gamble" on another addition. Where does that get us - nowhere.

[joey_big_nose]

Pace and nothing else. Why is there this obsession with pace in the modern game? whats the point of having pace as a winger and not the end product. Again i raise the point, who is going to provide the service to Roque if Bentley goes? It sure wouldn't be Lennon.

If Bentley goes it should be for cash only, that way we can find a decent replacement, not get average players in a swap deal.

I don't get that attitude. I am certain you would have been underwhelmed by pretty much every player we have bought in the last five years. Last nailed on "quality" individual we brought in was probably Andy Cole. He turned out to be crap. Bellamy was seen as a poor signing by many due to his attitude problems and his poor form when he came to Ewood.

We buy players who other people think are crap or they have never have heard of. We then work on their game. Arron Lennon and Huddlestone strike me as exactly fitting that bill. If Hughes looks at Lenonand he thinks he can get him to the sort of form that got him into the England team and even better then that is good enough for me. People hacve such as static view of players as either "good", "okay" or "rubbish". Fact is that players, even in the latter stages of their career, vary wildly in how they perform. This is greatly down to how the club uses them.

[den]

No-one has answered my question why, if a player can be taught/coached into being a good crosser of the ball, why Giggs still can't cross a good ball consistently. If a player can be taught how to shoot, why could Ashley Ward never hit a barn door?

[RibbleValleyRover]

We buy players who other people think are crap or they have never have heard of. We then work on their game.

I know that, but for me Lennon can't be turned into a decent player. He can't be taught how to cross a good ball on a regular basis as surely by now with the decent coaching staff he has had during his career so far, he would have shown some improvement. Spurs realise he can't improve so they are ready to offload him.

Players have weaknesses in their game, ones they can't improve or cannot ever be good at. A good example is Paul Scholes he has never been able to tackle, Lennon's is he cannot cross a ball.

I can gurantee you if Bentley goes and we don't bring in someone who can cross to replace him or is creative Roque will struggle next season. Lennon is not the solution and never will be.

[philipl]

Hang on guys, there is absolutely zero evidence that Rovers are looking at or considering Lennon. The story that he has been offered to us by Spuds is heavily odds on being complete and utter buncum as well. So whether Lennon is Fab 4 or a mispronouced Lemon, it matters not.

Huddlestone is a different matter- Rovers have tracked him, have been documented as being interested and it is a pretty high likelihood that he was one of the two players Rovers made an offer for at the end of January and got rejected.

Whilst I am at it, there seems to be nothing but a single press story suggesting Spurs have any interest in Bentley and to the extent Bentley is talking in easily understandable riddles, he is looking at teams in the Champions League now (Liverpool and Chelsea) if he were to move from Rovers. Nico has mentioned that Rovers' new contract offer to Bentley is priced so as to make a move to Spurs a step backwards.

[AggyBlue]

No-one has answered my question why, if a player can be taught/coached into being a good crosser of the ball, why Giggs still can't cross a good ball consistently. If a player can be taught how to shoot, why could Ashley Ward never hit a barn door?

Bobby Charlton couldn't use his left foot so he practiced for hour upon hour playing with a slipper on his right foot.

So there's your answer. Not coaching, but as someone has already said, practice.

[Eddie]

Eddie, I don't honestly think that I would be happy with a situation where we were replacing possibly the best right sided midfield player in the league, with someone inferior, - no matter that there might be a little more money available to "gamble" on another addition. Where does that get us - nowhere.

Ronaldo plays for us?

Lennon has talent, he could easily develop and he isn't nearly as bad as half of the people on her are making out.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Ronaldo plays for us?

Lennon has talent, he could easily develop and he isn't nearly as bad as half of the people on her are making out.

He's talented in terms of pace and acceleration, a natural gift. He isn't blessed with technique. Theres some things you can and can't teach. Its like with Bentley you can't teach him to have lennon's pace or acceleration because its a natural gift, likewise you can't teach Lennon to be a great crosser of the ball as he isn't blessed with a natural technique.

[laughatthedingles]

No-one has answered my question why, if a player can be taught/coached into being a good crosser of the ball, why Giggs still can't cross a good ball consistently. If a player can be taught how to shoot, why could Ashley Ward never hit a barn door?

The answer Den is players can be trained to do most things, however under pressure some will become inconsistent or in Ashley Ward's case, consistently bad!

As for Lennon, think most people are way off here, not that long ago he was the most exciting young player in the country. Could be turned into a gem, got all the attributes which cannot be taught i.e. pace - he is a rough diamond.

[cn_barlow]

Eddie, I don't honestly think that I would be happy with a situation where we were replacing possibly the best right sided midfield player in the league, with someone inferior, - no matter that there might be a little more money available to "gamble" on another addition. Where does that get us - nowhere.

Well by that reasoning whoever we bring in will be inferior. personally i dont think he is anywhere near the best right sided midfielder in the league.

[philipl]

Bentley not starting for England-

England team just in: James, Johnson, Woodgate, Ferdinand, Bridge, Beckham, Gerrard, Barry, Downing, Defoe, Ashton.

[S15]

No-one has answered my question why, if a player can be taught/coached into being a good crosser of the ball, why Giggs still can't cross a good ball consistently. If a player can be taught how to shoot, why could Ashley Ward never hit a barn door?

You're talking nonsense.

Henry isn't a 'natural' finisher, neither is Andy Cole. You will find both very close to the all time leading scorers list in the Premier League.

I don't actually agree with you with regards to Giggs. He is a good crosser. MPG was seen as an amazing crosser a couple of years ago, but not anymore.

These players work on these things and improve. One thing I would say is being a focal point of a team certainly helps. Lennon would certainly be that in our team.

Why wasn't Henry knocking in 20 goals a season when he was 21? Because he was seen as an inconstant winger with potential (who ironically couldn't even cross). 5 years later he was scoring AND assisting over 20 goals a season. It took hard work and a bit of faith from his manager. I'm sure he would have to work hard under MH, and I'm sure he'd feel more wanted here.

Your point, IMO, carries aboslutely no weight what so ever.

[Alan75]

No-one has answered my question why, if a player can be taught/coached into being a good crosser of the ball, why Giggs still can't cross a good ball consistently. If a player can be taught how to shoot, why could Ashley Ward never hit a barn door?

It's the same theory as teaching an apprentice joiner to saw wood. If he hasnt the eye or talent he will never cut it square and straight.

[den]

You're talking nonsense.

Henry isn't a 'natural' finisher, neither is Andy Cole. You will find both very close to the all time leading scorers list in the Premier League.

I don't actually agree with you with regards to Giggs. He is a good crosser. MPG was seen as an amazing crosser a couple of years ago, but not anymore.

These players work on these things and improve. One thing I would say is being a focal point of a team certainly helps. Lennon would certainly be that in our team.

Why wasn't Henry knocking in 20 goals a season when he was 21? Because he was seen as an inconstant winger with potential (who ironically couldn't even cross). 5 years later he was scoring AND assisting over 20 goals a season. It took hard work and a bit of faith from his manager. I'm sure he would have to work hard under MH, and I'm sure he'd feel more wanted here.

Your point, IMO, carries aboslutely no weight what so ever.

We'll have to disagree on just about everything here Shillitto.

If you think Giggs is a good crosser, then Lennon or anyone will do for you.

MGP was an "amazing" crosser?

Thierry Henry was a poor finisher that was coached how to score goals? So why can't Ashley Ward do the same? Who's being daft?

[LeChuck]

He's talented in terms of pace and acceleration, a natural gift. He isn't blessed with technique.

I'm sorry but that's not true. He has been quite poor recently, but there was a point where he was consistently playing well and contributing to goals. It wasn't that long ago that he was seen as Beckham's long-term replacement from England, he didn't get to that point by having pace and nothing else.

There are clips of him on YouTube from when he was playing well (try here and here). His close control and dribbling was excellent, and at times he did put in good crosses and showed good awareness. Tottenham haven't helped him by messing about with his position all the time, he ended up playing on the left quite a lot which is why he struggled with delivery.

To suggest he'll mess up every time he gets in a good position is an exaggeration in the extreme. Yes, needs work, but at 21 there is a lot of time for him to work on his game. At 21 Bentley wasn't very good either, a lot of people on here were questioning his worth.

If you think Giggs is a good crosser, then Lennon or anyone will do for you.

And if you think Giggs is a poor crosser then you've got an outlandish expectation of how good a winger should be. Giggs has consistently been one of the best providers from out wide for well over a decade now. He can't whip a ball in like Beckham or Bentley, but then how many wide players can?

We won't be able to get anyone like Bentley if he leaves, there are so few players around like that. Someone like Lennon would allow us to be effective in other ways.

[den]

We won't be able to get anyone like Bentley if he leaves, there are so few players around like that. Someone like Lennon would allow us to be effective in other ways.

So true, so why are people "happy" to take someone that they know are inferior?