[Archived] Bentley

[Exiled_Rover]

So true, so why are people "happy" to take someone that they know are inferior?

Because by all accounts the superior player wants to get the hell out of Dodge. Lennon has pace and potential (nobody is the finished article at 21), something we don't have much of.

[John]

All this uncertainty cant be helping Bents situation.

If we have a new manager for example, he may have a different view on this situation. May decide to cash in to provide extra funds for himself etc.

On Lennon, he does have the potential for us to take a risk on.

[den]

Because by all accounts the superior player wants to get the hell out of Dodge. Lennon has pace and "potential" (nobody is the finished article at 21), something we don't have much of.

That's where the disagreements about Lennon come to the fore. If crossing a ball consistently well from out wide and having the vision to pick out an unmarked team mate were down to coaching, then why can't every winger do it? It's not as though Lennon has been in the rovers academy side all this time is it? He's been coached by some of the best, including England's coach.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Thierry Henry was a poor finisher that was coached how to score goals? So why can't Ashley Ward do the same? Who's being daft?

Because Henry had frightening pace and no little skill to get into dangerous positions: Ashley Ward had neither... You are going round in circles here!

Lennon has pace, that's a physical attribute - it can be developed but some peple are naturally quick, through practise any player can learn a skill or how to cross/finish. It's all about mentality and hard work.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

On he comes for Beckham..

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Crosses it and Defoe scores.

He's bound to be off now.

[Hughesy]

1 good cross for the goal and 1 good ball through for Gerard so far. Fair play to him.

[oozy]

Nice to see Bentley having an impact.

That take down and subsequent shot was exquisite.

[Hasta]

Capello seems to like his players to keep hold of the ball. Bentley still gives it away too cheaply. Did a few good things and was OK but against that lot it was a chance to really shine.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Capello seems to like his players to keep hold of the ball. Bentley still gives it away too cheaply. Did a few good things and was OK but against that lot it was a chance to really shine.

Thats his inexperience at this level showing through IMO.

He wasn't brilliant but i thought overall he played ok. A far better performance than against the USA and showing some good movement and attempted assists that on another day could have lead to more goals.

You have to keep in mind its an end of season performance, you could tell as the overall team performance was pretty flat.

[philipl]

Glad I watched the second half- thought Bents did OK and when he nearly bent that cross into the goal it was a deliberate attempt; there were no red shirts within 30 yards of the goal-line. At least Bents CAN cross and did so to good effect.

Read the BBC's minute-by-minute and you'd think Bents was a hero then the Grauniad's MBM and you'd think Bents was utterly useless!!!

Great to see two Rovers on the field at the end there and the highly researched and precisely targetted advertising- two Crown Paints ads either side of halfway line for the Rovers supporters (one each for Bents and Warnock?) and an obviously locally painted (wrong font and the Maltese Cross anything but) Air Malta poster in the corner to make me feel a valued customer.

[S15]

We'll have to disagree on just about everything here Shillitto.

If you think Giggs is a good crosser, then Lennon or anyone will do for you.

MGP was an "amazing" crosser?

Thierry Henry was a poor finisher that was coached how to score goals? So why can't Ashley Ward do the same? Who's being daft?

Henry had scored less than 20 career goals prior to joining Arsenal, and when he joined didn't score until November. So yes, what I said is a fact.

And the common demoninator with all these players (Henry, Cole and apparently Giggs) is raw pace. That's the why they awere firghteningly dangerous.

So, at age 21, with a little love to him from our end combined with his own attention to detail, he could be a cracking player.

The thing is den, you keep whittering on about ''but why sell Bentley if we can't replace him with someone as good etc etc,'' well that's the point. When Blackburn Rovers sell players their best players it isn't for any reason other than they are now considered 'better' or 'too good' to play for us. SO WE GENERALLY DON'T REPLACE OUR VERY BEST PLAYERS WITH PEOPLE AS GOOD, OR EVEN BETTER.

We start over, and start redeveloping.

[krislu]

So, at age 21, with a little love to him from our end combined with his own attention to detail, he could be a cracking player.

If it's Lennon you are talking about then I completely agree. Given some time and the right coaching I have no doubt that he can be as good as Bentley or even better.

[gazsimm]

the differnce between Lennon and Bentley, is that Bentley has an end product and can pick out passes quickly, i am affraid the only thing Lennon has is pace, but that is no good if there is no end product.

[den]

QUOTE(den @ Jun 1 2008, 22:23 ) *

We'll have to disagree on just about everything here Shillitto.

If you think Giggs is a good crosser, then Lennon or anyone will do for you.

MGP was an "amazing" crosser?

Thierry Henry was a poor finisher that was coached how to score goals? So why can't Ashley Ward do the same? Who's being daft?

Henry had scored less than 20 career goals prior to joining Arsenal, and when he joined didn't score until November. So yes, what I said is a fact.

And the common demoninator with all these players (Henry, Cole and apparently Giggs) is raw pace. That's the why they awere firghteningly dangerous.

So, at age 21, with a little love to him from our end combined with his own attention to detail, he could be a cracking player.

The thing is den, you keep whittering on about ''but why sell Bentley if we can't replace him with someone as good etc etc,'' well that's the point. When Blackburn Rovers sell players their best players it isn't for any reason other than they are now considered 'better' or 'too good' to play for us. SO WE GENERALLY DON'T REPLACE OUR VERY BEST PLAYERS WITH PEOPLE AS GOOD, OR EVEN BETTER.

We start over, and start redeveloping.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shillitto, read what I'm saying instead of going off on one.

my comments have been aimed at those people who are "HAPPY" to accept a player [Lennon], as a replacement for Bentley who has no end product - now. Even though Bentley has three years left on his contract. There might come a time when Bentley has to be sold and there simply is no-one around of any real quality, but that time isn't now.

Just a quick comeback on some of your earlier points. It's a FACT that Thierry Henry was made into a good finisher because of the coaches? - ridiculous. That guy has more natural talent than anyone else who graced the Premier league. You still didn't tell me why no club could do that with Ashley Ward, - unless you think they could. You obviously do.

[rover6]

Firstly, Giggs can cross and well.

And this "no end product" matra about Lennon is a myth. He is not a great crosser but he is more than capable of making assists. According to the Prem League Fantasy stats (no idea how accurate they are) Lennon made 6 assists last season, in what was a poor, injury-hit campaign for him. The season before he was arguably Spurs most influential attacking midfielder.

Thirdly, players can be improved by coaching. Jamie Carragher started out as a bit of a clogger, suitable for a scrap but nothing more refined. Now he has proven that he is capable of holding his own in midfield on the international stage. His passing ability has improved manifold.

[American]

If it's Lennon you are talking about then I completely agree. Given some time and the right coaching I have no doubt that he can be as good as Bentley or even better.

I think that's the first time I've heard you speak well of a player!! I'm on board now, sign him up!

Den - Bentley wants out. Best to sell him while we can get the most for him. I think that in light of everything else going on, he would be unhappy next season and do nothing to increase his value. Name me another player we could sign for the "price" who would be better than Lennon? If nothing else, he's young and he's English, so we can always sell him on for more than he's worth down the road.

[philipl]

Just as all plans Rovers had for squad strengthening are now completely on hold, Rovers will need a monster bid to prize Bentley away whilst they are looking for a new Manager given Bents is under a three year contract.

The Hughes situation probably means that any hope Bentley had of a move goes in the freezer until the new appointees assess the situation.

[Blue blood]

I don't know. Maybe the whole Hughes saga is getting me too pessimistic but I thought Hughes was one of the key chances we had of keeping Bentley as he's played such a major part in developing Bentley into the talent he is.

Can see Bents kicking up a fuss and saying he wants to leave now that Hughes is gone. Gives him a bit more of an excuse to go.

[S15]

Just a quick comeback on some of your earlier points. It's a FACT that Thierry Henry was made into a good finisher because of the coaches? - ridiculous. That guy has more natural talent than anyone else who graced the Premier league. You still didn't tell me why no club could do that with Ashley Ward, - unless you think they could. You obviously do.

Your example of Ashley Ward isn't a good one at all.

Go on Wikipedia and type his name, and you will see he had overall good career stats, scoring ALOT of goals in the second tier of English football. He was a Championship level striker, and scored alot of goals at that level. I don't really see your point.

Whilst you're at it, type in Thierry Henry. You will see prior to joining Arsenal he had scored 23 career goals in 126 appearences. He was sold to Arsenal as a flop who wasn't good enough to play at the very top for Juventus. Tell me why he then went on to score 174 goals in 254 games for Arsenal? Coincidence?

[den]

Your example of Ashley Ward isn't a good one at all.

Go on Wikipedia and type his name, and you will see he had overall good career stats, scoring ALOT of goals in the second tier of English football. He was a Championship level striker, and scored alot of goals at that level. I don't really see your point.

Whilst you're at it, type in Thierry Henry. You will see prior to joining Arsenal he had scored 23 career goals in 126 appearences. He was sold to Arsenal as a flop who wasn't good enough to play at the very top for Juventus. Tell me why he then went on to score 174 goals in 254 games for Arsenal? Coincidence?

Ashley Ward was possibly the worst striker I've seen at Ewood. He had no power in his shot, had no pace whatsoever and couldn't head a ball. You think he was a good striker? I'm not having any of that.

As for Henry, he was played as an out and out winger at Juve, he wouldn't score goals there. The reason he became phenomenal at Arsenal wasn't because his coaches taught him how to strike a ball, or even how to open up a defence, they gave him an entirely different role. You can't teach what Henry has got, that's my point regarding Lennon.

[S15]

Then why did Henry take until November to score his first Arsenal goal?

And are you seriously telling me Marcello Lippi, that bloke who just won the World Cup after a career which has seen him win everything, didn't notice he could strike a ball?

[blue phil]

The answer Den is players can be trained to do most things, however under pressure some will become inconsistent or in Ashley Ward's case, consistently bad!

As for Lennon, think most people are way off here, not that long ago he was the most exciting young player in the country. Could be turned into a gem, got all the attributes which cannot be taught i.e. pace - he is a rough diamond.

Good grief - a sensible comment !

For those who suggest that players can't be improved by good coaching , motivation and technical training I suggest they read something about the career of Brian Clough who turned numerous "non achievers" into top class players .

If Bentley goes and has to be replaced (and I won't shed a tear when that happens ) then Lennon has plenty of technical potential with which to work on . That's what matters - although , obviously , a bit of bottle is necessary also .

All this talk about Ashley Ward who had nothing to work on at the highest level is just pedantic nonsense . I can't believe anyone has the nerve to mention him in the same sentence as Henry and expect to taken seriously ....

[den]

Good grief - a sensible comment !

For those who suggest that players can't be improved by good coaching , motivation and technical training I suggest they read something about the career of Brian Clough who turned numerous "non achievers" into top class players .

If Bentley goes and has to be replaced (and I won't shed a tear when that happens ) then Lennon has plenty of technical potential with which to work on . That's what matters - although , obviously , a bit of bottle is necessary also .

All this talk about Ashley Ward who had nothing to work on at the highest level is just pedantic nonsense . I can't believe anyone has the nerve to mention him in the same sentence as Henry and expect to taken seriously ....

Firstly Phil, no-one, as far as I remember has said players don't improve with good coaching. That's not what is being debated. To turn that around, I'll ask you a question. Could Paul Scholes, who couldn't time a tackle to save his life, be made into anything like another Roy Keane? Could Steven Reid be coached into a creative midfielder, who can split open a defence with through balls of Tugayesque quality?

If you agree that they can't, then why should Aaron Lennon suddenly become the next Dave Wagstaffe?

[blue phil]

Den ; they are all different . There's not a formula to say that any given footballer can or can't have a skill developed just because he's reached the ripe old age of 21 .

Someone like Reid obviously can't be taught to split defences like a Tugay because that's all in the brain - speed of thought .

But it is not impossible for Lennon to be developed to the point where his percentage of good crosses is significantly improved .

Let's be realistic . We are hardly going to find out there in footyland a ready made international winger whose crossing ability surpasses that of Bentley's and whose height of ambition is to play for Rovers . Lennon has other attributes which may one day make him a better player than Bentley - I , for one , certainly don't rule that out .