[Archived] ...and You Thought Blackburn Was Bad ! ! !

[Paul]

Workington on the Cumbrian coast is particularly depressing.

Try a drive up the coast to Maryport. Spent a night there a couple of years back............the traffic lights changed

[jim mk2]

Really enjoyed holidays in the aforementioned places ... but they only serve to make me realise how lucky I was to be born in the greatest place to live on Earth bar none.

Correct. To answer the title of this thread, I never thought Blackburn was bad.

I have lived and worked in different parts of England (worst of them all was London) and always looked forward to the day when I could come home.

Why would anyone want to live anywhere else ?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

I was born in Blackburn and lived most of my life in E.Lancs. It seriously pains me to say that, imo, Blackburn is a depressing, heroin ridden, chav infested hell hole. If those who have inhabited the town hall aren't to blame why is Preston (next door, similar size) so much better?

Having worked down the M66 for the last 6 years can I chuck Manchester into the mix for horrible place nomination? It would have a lovely city centre if it wasn't full of Mancunians. Outside the centre there are some truly grim districts made up of fearful council estates populated by people who take a perverse pride in thier lawlessnes.

I'm leaving the country for good in a couple of months - wont miss Manchester one little bit.

[Ewood Spark]

If those who have inhabited the town hall aren't to blame why is Preston (next door, similar size) so much better?

I would have thought that from a cursory glance at a map even the dumbest of numbnuts could figure-out why Preston may be better positioned to attract inward investment. I guarantee that if Blackburn was sat astride the West Coast main line and clipped by the M6 you would see a whole different beast of a town .... but that could never happen because of the geography of the place ... and yet that same geography is also responsible for setting Blackburn apart from all the cloned two-dimensional towns/cities that litter Albion. Drapped over Goldilocks hills (Not too high, not too low ... just right) it provides the lucky residents with an extraordinary backdrop against which to live ordinary lives.

Anyway if you like Preston so much perhaps if/when you come back to Blighty you might like to consider moving to the delightful Callon estate ... but if you do, a word of warning ...make sure your tan has faded.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

I would have thought that from a cursory glance at a map even the dumbest of numbnuts could figure-out why Preston may be better positioned to attract inward investment. I guarantee that if Blackburn was sat astride the West Coast main line and clipped by the M6 you would see a whole different beast of a town .... but that could never happen because of the geography of the place ... and yet that same geography is also responsible for setting Blackburn apart from all the cloned two-dimensional towns/cities that litter Albion. Drapped over Goldilocks hills (Not too high, not too low ... just right) it provides the lucky residents with an extraordinary backdrop against which to live ordinary lives.

Anyway if you like Preston so much perhaps if/when you come back to Blighty you might like to consider moving to the delightful Callon estate ... but if you do, a word of warning ...make sure your tan has faded.

I didn't say that I liked Preston. I dont but it is indesputably a better town (now city) than Blackburn which I dont particularly like having to admit. The geographical advantages that Preston have are no reason to give up on making Blackburn better than the dump it is which is what has happened. Those advantages dont extend to Bolton by the way.

Bury (much smaller than Blackburn) has all sorts of disadvantages in comparison. Much better facilities there though even before it's recent revamp.

Every town has it's dodgy areas. there are more than a few in Blackburn that I would be nervous about.

A shame that you have to use expressions like dumbest numbnuts in your argument btw.

[Ewood Spark]

... it is indesputably a better town (now city) than Blackburn

You forgot to add "In my opinion ..." as a prefix to that statement (whatever indesputably means)

It's the constant snipping at the council that I can't abide. It is just lazy half-baked thinking that doesn't stand-up to even a modicum of scrutiny. If what you assert is true, then what you are implying is that on average our councilors are of a lower caliber than councilors of other towns .... this averaged across thousands of individuals spanning four decades. Is that what you are saying? Because if it is then the average IQ will soon be raised slightly (When did you say you were off?) ... only joking

The real drivers for our economic predicament are all down to two easily defined idioms "Location Location Location" and "Free Market Forces" nothing more ... nothing less. Oh by the way ...thanks for the two examples backing up my argument ... Bolton and Bury ... both basking in the reflected economic miracle that is early 21st century Manchester by virtue of their location.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

You forgot to add "In my opinion ..." as a prefix to that statement (whatever indesputably means)

It's the constant snipping at the council that I can't abide. It is just lazy half-baked thinking that doesn't stand-up to even a modicum of scrutiny. If what you assert is true, then what you are implying is that on average our councilors are of a lower caliber than councilors of other towns .... this averaged across thousands of individuals spanning four decades. Is that what you are saying? Because if it is then the average IQ will soon be raised slightly (When did you say you were off?) ... only joking

The real drivers for our economic predicament are all down to two easily defined idioms "Location Location Location" and "Free Market Forces" nothing more ... nothing less. Oh by the way ...thanks for the two examples backing up my argument ... Bolton and Bury ... both basking in the reflected economic miracle that is early 21st century Manchester by virtue of their location.

Or perhaps living in the shadow of a major city might be considered to be a major disadvantage to the economic growth and development of a town.

Whatever, you are clearly a smart alec and spelling Police officer to boot who seemingly has to personalise debates. Cant be arsed.

[FourLaneBlue]

Surely there has to be more incentives for local sellers in the markets. Right now in Blackburn fish market there is ONE stall operating. At times like this we need the council to be doing all it can to be getting in as many stalls as they can. Yet still they are being charged £50 or so a day plus parking. There surely has to be some kind of drive into getting businesses and shops into the town centre and forget about the Council making money from them for the moment.

If Rovers saw enough sense to slash prices to those using their business...can't the Council do the same at this time?

For years and years I have heard complaints about the costs required to open in Blackburn town centre. Surely they cannot ALL just be bitter and twisted moaners? As a council employee Ewood Spark (I know others including family members who work there so am hardly biased against them)...What is the Council doing to get more shops into the place? To go to a good book shop I have to go to Preston for example. Surely the town of Blackburn can support one dedicated book shop other than The Works?

It is all very well talking about people shopping in Blackburn...but they also need to buy things that attract them. Do we have any toy shops in Blackburn any more since the closure of Mercer's? Of course Blackburn has many challenges but what is being done in this especially difficult current economic climate. I would like to know.

People moan a lot it is true but that does not mean they never have a point.

[JAL]

You are so.... so naive. Councils and councilors come and go ... only the situation we find ourselves in remains constant. You could have read threads on this same message board 10 years ago and the same old crap negative anti-Blackburn comments would have been made. I dare say if the internet had been around 20 or 30 years ago the same would have been true. In fact all the way back to the death of King Cotton. If you feel the need to blame somebody for the decimation of manufacturing in these parts then look no further than the likes of Gordon Foxley or even Mahatma Gandhi. Market forces shape society ...not politicians.It's not rocket science ... pull the rug from under any society and things will become tougher. What really riles me is the lack of a fighting spirit a lot of people in these parts seem to have. Nothing but great big East Lancs surrender monkeys the lot of 'em. B*gg*ring off to Pr*ston or the Tr*fford Centre every week to do their shopping and then falling over themselves to come on message boards and slag off the quality of shops struggling to make ends meet in their own town. T*ssers the lot of 'em.

Its the bit about 'they come and go' that gets me, which suggests the WRONG people having been in the wrong job. The wrong people with no real vision only a dream like empty headed unachievable vision-as you put it EW T~ssers.

The town is shrinking like many other nothern towns yet,' THEY' seem to think they can fill it with crap and everything will take care of itself.

The policy for Blackburn should have been to go with the downsizing, clear the waste the deadwood return the land to a green and pleaseant land and then one day it will be there for future generations to rebuild and grow if the time seems fit to do so NOT SATISFY dead heads and back fill it with immigrants.

It doesnt help that weve been driven financially upwards by greedy bankers, the City of London people to make them multi millionaires on the back of unsustainable policies in such a short period.

Like all good businesses cut out the waste and hopefully grow back another day.

Why are there so many immigrants claiming unemployment benefits and free NHS care Why? its waste!

[ABBEY]

Never actually holidayed in Corporation Park ... but it is one of my favorites. As for my holiday destinations in recent years:-

Europe ... done to death several times over.

Boston and the New England trail.

San Fransisco / Yosemite National Park.

New York.

Singapore.

Dubai.

Calgary / Banff (regular skiing base)

Really enjoyed holidays in the aforementioned places ... but they only serve to make me realise how lucky I was to be born in the greatest place to live on Earth bar none.

so its ok for YOU to spend your money all over the world but people who spend it at the traff are tossers?

[allrovertheworld]

Greymouth on the south island of NZ.

Grey by name and grey by nature.

I would agree with this, I went to Greymouth once and the only thing of any interest was a dead Possum thingy which I took a photo of. I got bitten by some massive fly things on my face and ended up looking like the elephant man aswell. Hokitika just down the road is just as bad, its like the wild west. However that side of NZ is amazing and its good that there are no big towns spoiling it.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Birmingham? A disaster of a city, concrete everywhere, terrible for pedestrians and that bull ring thing is pathetic. I have only been twice and will never go again.

Just wanted to add Canberra, the most heartless city in the world. Its like its trying so hard to be Washington DC with non of the history. Its impossible to get around the place and is the most un Australian place I have ever been.

[Ewood Spark]

As a council employee Ewood Spark ...

Whoa there! ... where did you get the impression I work for the council? I've got a proper job ( ) working as a software engineer in industry.

Surely there has to be more incentives for local sellers in the markets. Right now in Blackburn fish market there is ONE stall operating. At times like this we need the council to be doing all it can to be getting in as many stalls as they can. Yet still they are being charged £50 or so a day plus parking. There surely has to be some kind of drive into getting businesses and shops into the town centre and forget about the Council making money from them for the moment.

The danger with lowering rents is that you bring in the tat-sellers. The strategy adopted by the council for the new market is to go for quality ... not quantity ... a brave move that hopefully will attract a more discerning (and wealthy) clientele.

For years and years I have heard complaints about the costs required to open in Blackburn town centre. Surely they cannot ALL just be bitter and twisted moaners?

You should address these concerns to 'The Mall' ... not the council.

To go to a good book shop I have to go to Preston for example

Why would Waterstones or the like invest in a store in Blackburn .... when they know that people are stupid enough to travel to Preston ... the only way to get these commercial enterprises to de-centralise their operations is to vote with your feet ... if foot-fall for the town center increases you can bet your bottom dollar the free-market will follow in those footsteps.

It is all very well talking about people shopping in Blackburn...but they also need to buy things that attract them. Do we have any toy shops in Blackburn any more since the closure of Mercer's?

Yes it's called Mercers and is on the corner of Darwen/Jubilee St.

Of course Blackburn has many challenges but what is being done in this especially difficult current economic climate. I would like to know.

Well you could start here ... or even better, treat yourself to a coffee in the excellent Tourist Information Office and browse the various exhibitions on regeneration at your leisure.

People moan a lot it is true but that does not mean they never have a point.

Fine ... but most of the 'points' are lazy re-gurgitated ill-thoughtout gibberish.

[Ewood Spark]

Its the bit about 'they come and go' that gets me, which suggests the WRONG people having been in the wrong job. The wrong people with no real vision only a dream like empty headed unachievable vision-as you put it EW T~ssers.

The town is shrinking like many other nothern towns yet,' THEY' seem to think they can fill it with crap and everything will take care of itself.

The policy for Blackburn should have been to go with the downsizing, clear the waste the deadwood return the land to a green and pleaseant land and then one day it will be there for future generations to rebuild and grow if the time seems fit to do so NOT SATISFY dead heads and back fill it with immigrants.

It doesnt help that weve been driven financially upwards by greedy bankers, the City of London people to make them multi millionaires on the back of unsustainable policies in such a short period.

Like all good businesses cut out the waste and hopefully grow back another day.

Why are there so many immigrants claiming unemployment benefits and free NHS care Why? its waste!

Wow ... as if on cue to prove the last point of my previous post ... spooky

[Ewood Spark]

so its ok for YOU to spend your money all over the world but people who spend it at the traff are tossers?

HEY ABBEY ... sorry ... Hey Abbey that's a really great well thought-out argument you've come up with there ... well done.

[LDRover]

The danger with lowering rents is that you bring in the tat-sellers. The strategy adopted by the council for the new market is to go for quality ... not quantity ... a brave move that hopefully will attract a more discerning (and wealthy) clientele.

So, how come there's a pound shop opening in the old Mercer's building?

Also, who were the people in the council responsible for the unfinished ring road - where they failed to notice a listed building on the route? Such incompetence deserves naming and shaming.

[Ewood Spark]

Whatever, you are clearly a smart alec and spelling Police officer to boot who seemingly has to personalise debates. Cant be arsed.

You personalized this debate when you described my home-town as "depressing, heroin ridden, chav infested hell hole". It's like me describing your partner/wife /girlfriend as being ugly .... some things you don't say on on a public messageboard as they are likely to cause offense. You may be running away from the crap life you've alluded to ... but some of us quite like it here and your negative rantings certainly don't help those of us trying to paint a more positive picture of the area.

[ABBEY]

.... some things you don't say on on a public messageboard as they are likely to cause offense.

as opposed to calling people stupid or tossers if they go shopping in preston or the trafford center. Well ive been today to pick my tickets up ,we had a nandos lunch and bought a couple of books from waterstones and even had a starbucks...in blackburn nearest you can get is a chicken pasty from one of the umpteen greggs or a chineses buffet at the boro.oh and i even didnt have to pay for parking.

[Ewood Spark]

So, how come there's a pound shop opening in the old Mercer's building?

Also, who were the people in the council responsible for the unfinished ring road - where they failed to notice a listed building on the route? Such incompetence deserves naming and shaming.

Here we go again .... T-h-e c-o-u-n-c-i-l i-s n-o-t r-e-s-p-o-n-s-i-b-l-e f-o-r t-h-e s-a-l-e o-f p-r-i-v-a-t-e p-r-e-m-i-s-e-s. Just think before asking daft questions ... it's not difficult.

If you want better quality shops then "use it or lose it" it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and a perceived loyal shopping clientele is the first step.

As for the ring road, good tactics by the council ... it will be built ... English Heritage will eventually buckle on this issue ....but if the council had sat on their hands and done everything by the book there would be absolutely no pressure on English Heritage to grant demolition and the thing would never have got started.

[Paul]

The town is shrinking like many other nothern towns yet,' THEY' seem to think they can fill it with crap and everything will take care of itself.

The policy for Blackburn should have been to go with the downsizing, clear the waste the deadwood return the land to a green and pleaseant land and then one day it will be there for future generations to rebuild and grow if the time seems fit to do so NOT SATISFY dead heads and back fill it with immigrants.

I heard an item on Radio 4 this weekend about an American town planning to do something similar. The population has halved from 200k to 100k and the current mayor's solution is to demolish the abandoned areas, relocating people still living there to better housing, and "green" the city. Some strong arguements put for the plan, those against arguing the need to bring new jobs etc, as this was a town built on the automotive industry, as their preferred solution.

[philipl]

I think Ewood Spark is absolutely 100% correct in advancing the arguments he does.

All credit to him for taking a bunch of you on and advancing the arguments he has done.

There really is a lack of common sense and knowledge being shown by the detractors of Blackburn on here. Well over 50% of the world's population now lives in urban environments and sad to say Blackburn sits easily in the top 25 percentile of the best urban environments.

[ABBEY]

Bit rich coming from someone whose effed off to malta.

[colin]

Bit rich coming from someone whose effed off to malta.

Not sure why this makes sense. Where Phillipl or I or indeed you, live has no bearing on our opinions of Blackburn.

From my point of view Blackburn town centre is a bit of a dump. But so is Oldham, Rochdale, Bury, Preston & Blackpool. Add to the list if you want.

They've all passed their "sell-by" date in the economic climate which goes back to the demise of the textile & manufacturing industries. All the northern England towns are struggling to recover from this. It's a global issue.

Manchester & Liverpool are doing quite well due to being the major centres in the North West. Warrington's doing really well too, but I wouldn't want to live there.

The renewal of town centres is down these days to attracting the private sector. So it's a great big "Hooray" if you attract Tesco, but then if it builds a big white out-of-town-box you lose 20-30 small shops and probably a few local petrol stations.

I haven't got the answers. One thing I know is that it's probably not the fault of BwD Council. It has inherited a long term problem and has to do whatever it thinks best to try and correct it.

Just one thing to end. Don't take this personally Abbey. It's just meant to be an observation: Anyone who drives to the hell-hole known as The Trafford Centre to consume goods, to avoid parking charges in Blackburn, has probably not figured out the cost of the 60 mile journey.

Do your consumer purchasing locally, you know it makes sense. Do your bit to help revive Blackburn.

Cheers. Sermon over.

The Rev Colin

[Seggie]

So, how come there's a pound shop opening in the old Mercer's building?

Unfortunatly its where the people of Blackburn seemingly want to spend their money. The pound shop thats going in there is relocating and will make make money in there unlike Mercers. As somebody who has worked in retail for 10 years as long as the costs are covered and theres profit involved it doesn't matter what image you have or what you sell as long as you are making the money.

It may not be pleasing to the eye to most of us, but to the Landlords of the building they are getting rent and the tenants will be making money. They dont give a damn about Blackburn or its image just £££££.

[Paul]

Bit rich coming from someone whose effed off to malta.

.......but you're forever telling us about the wonders of the Trafford Centre when Blackburn town centre is crying out for people to spend money in local shops. Doesn't matter if you travel to Malta or the Trafford Centre you aren't spending money in Blackburn. As Coiln says why go to the TC, takes roughly two hours round trip, it's an absolute hell hole when you get there and the travel costs money?

[FourLaneBlue]

Yes it's called Mercers and is on the corner of Darwen/Jubilee St.

Yes I was told about the toy shop moving after I had posted and...voting with my feet...I will go and have a look later today. As a shopper who has been shopping in Blackburn for decades I find it difficult to see what more I can do.

Later on this week I will nip over to Preston to the Borders store they have. There is no alternative to that in Blackburn. WH Smith and The Works certainly are not (although the latter is pretty good for cheap paperbacks) so there is no real alternative but for the customer but to go and shop elsewhere at times.

The danger with lowering rents is that you bring in the tat-sellers. The strategy adopted by the council for the new market is to go for quality ... not quantity ... a brave move that hopefully will attract a more discerning (and wealthy) clientele.

I do not know if that is a good strategy or not but to only have the one stall on the fish market is not really good enough is it? Does that mean the fish market is to bite the dust and for us all just go to the supermarkets? Will be a sad day if that happens.