[Archived] Kenwyne Jones

[FourLaneBlue]

Can't answer your second point FLB, as we don't know who will become available. As for Jones, well it's only opinions - and everyone's opinion is as valid as anyone else's, but for me I prefer the more intelligent type of forward. Someone who can use a bit of nous and has a sharp footballing brain on him. Rocky had it - as did Bellamy. Mike Newell had it - as did Steve Archibald. Tony Field had it - as did Kevin Gallagher. Surely we're not stuck with the Sheffki Kuqi's of this world? He ticked all the boxes you know - quick, tall, had that sell on fee and scored a few goals as well

Jones seems an intelligent striker to me as he is skillful with quick feet and capable of nice, little touches. I disagree with the way you perceive him rather than your wish for an "intelligent" striker and think you are incorrect in underrating his abilities to such an extent. The fact that he does tick boxes due to his height seems to be leading some to believe he is just a big target man.

As for the likes of Bellamy...who did he play alongside? Or the likes of Gallagher? Those quick forwards tended to be partnered by more of a target man. Just because we sign a big target man does not mean we cannot play a nippy little type alongside him.

Of the names that have been bandied about so far this summer regarding strikers I think Jones is the best shout so far. Not perfect and far from the finished article but he definitely has plenty going for him.

[den]

Jones seems an intelligent striker to me as he is skillful with quick feet and capable of nice, little touches. I disagree with the way you perceive him rather than your wish for an "intelligent" striker and think you are incorrect in underrating his abilities to such an extent. The fact that he does tick boxes due to his height seems to be leading some to believe he is just a big target man.

As for the likes of Bellamy...who did he play alongside? Or the likes of Gallagher? Those quick forwards tended to be partnered by more of a target man. Just because we sign a big target man does not mean we cannot play a nippy little type alongside him.

Of the names that have been bandied about so far this summer regarding strikers I think Jones is the best shout so far. Not perfect and far from the finished article but he definitely has plenty going for him.

Fair enough FLB.

TBH, he's a better bet than the Zigic's or the other big foreign guy who's name I can't remember. Not the type I would want by choice though.

[FourLaneBlue]

TBH, he's a better bet than the Zigic's or the other big foreign guy who's name I can't remember. Not the type I would want by choice though.

You need all types in the Prem though Den and especially with the way we expect Sam will likely have us playing...

[den]

You need all types in the Prem though Den and especially with the way we expect Sam will likely have us playing...

and there's the problem. We're all assuming that Sam would only want the Beattie type and basing our views on that.

[Kelbo]

I think Jones is a good target and as long as it stayed in the 7/8 region (which seems unlikely, but you never know) I think it could be a fantastic signing. Have to be a bit wary of signing a player after such a big injury and only one good premiership season, so going up to 11 or 12 million would be a risk. Of all the players around who have premiership experience, are of a good age and are realistic targets he is probably the best shout. Certainly always looks a handful.

His only downfall is he is a sulker, personally I dont like sulkers, just get on with doing the job, never sulk!!

His game goes to pieces when he does that!

and there's the problem. We're all assuming that Sam would only want the Beattie type and basing our views on that.

That is his preferred way and why I thinkif Vieri is fit, he may then look at other options,using Vieri as a plan B if plan A with a quick striker doesnt work!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I rate Jones, sure he has off days, the strikers that don't go for mega bucks. As for Carroll , for the Rip Van Winkles on this board it was reported that he had broken his ankle in training at the end of last season. I'd like to wait and see if he makes a complete recovery before blowing my dosh on him.

[FourLaneBlue]

and there's the problem. We're all assuming that Sam would only want the Beattie type and basing our views on that.

I do not understand where you are coming from here den. Are you trying to suggest that Jones is "a Beattie type"? As he really isn´t. At all.

Actually it is utterly irrelevant how Sam plays as WHATEVER way we still need players that bring different things to the team. We need pacy players, skillful players, players who can win headers, players who can pick out a pass, players who can cross (I don´t think we have any of them to be honest...).

If Sam was only bringing in one type of player then I might share the concerns but it seems he is looking for many different types. It just seems a big striker is wanted as it will bring something to the side which we do not have. That does not have to mean the striker is only there to ping long balls at.

[den]

I do not understand where you are coming from here den. Are you trying to suggest that Jones is "a Beattie type"? As he really isn´t. At all.

Well he's not a Beattie clone, but his strengths and weaknesses are similar. Beattie doesn't have any pace at all, whereas Jones does, but they are both penalty area players who thrive on crosses. Outside the box, neither bring much to the party.

[patrickvalery]

Not wanting to repaet myself, as i always seem to be mentioning it. But living in Southampton i have seen a fair amount of Jones. I'm pretty sure Sturrock bought him over here as a 18-19 yr old. He seemed to divide opinions of the numerous mangers Saints have had since Sturrock. But there was always talk of him having potential just lacking the application. I know Paul Sturrock isn't a big name in the footballing world. But interestingly he brought Crouch to Southampton too. Ironically another target on our radar.

Firstly he never ever looked to be just a target man. In fact i'm sure i recall seeing him play for the reserves down here in the middle of the park on more than one occasion. I wouldn't say he had really quick feet by any means. But i would say he has a knack of controlling tempo. He always demostrated a good touch and due to his sheer size he retained the ball very well. Since then he has grown in size and his retention is even better. Looked handy with his back to goal and brought others into the game. What has amazed me is his development and improvement in heading a ball. As a younster he didn't have this side to his game. I think he'd get 5-7 goals alone from set pieces in our side next year. An awaful lot i know, but its pretty obvious we'll be deploying such tactics with emphasis on set plays.

The only down side to him that i can see is his perceived lack of effort. I think this is grossly over hyped. His culture is extremely laid back and i think its just in his blood. Its not a case of laziness. From what i knew of him down here he seemed very quiet, grounded and if anything a shy lad. On the whole he'd be an excellent signing.

As for people mentioning Beattie. He is simply a confidence player. When he is star of the show and the main man upfront he's awsome. As soon as he is in competition for places or accolades with anyone half decent he shrinks.

[Kelbo]

Not wanting to repaet myself, as i always seem to be mentioning it. But living in Southampton i have seen a fair amount of Jones. I'm pretty sure Sturrock bought him over here as a 18-19 yr old. He seemed to divide opinions of the numerous mangers Saints have had since Sturrock. But there was always talk of him having potential just lacking the application. I know Paul Sturrock isn't a big name in the footballing world. But interestingly he brought Crouch to Southampton too. Ironically another target on our radar.

Firstly he never ever looked to be just a target man. In fact i'm sure i recall seeing him play for the reserves down here in the middle of the park on more than one occasion. I wouldn't say he had really quick feet by any means. But i would say he has a knack of controlling tempo. He always demostrated a good touch and due to his sheer size he retained the ball very well. Since then he has grown in size and his retention is even better. Looked handy with his back to goal and brought others into the game. What has amazed me is his development and improvement in heading a ball. As a younster he didn't have this side to his game. I think he'd get 5-7 goals alone from set pieces in our side next year. An awaful lot i know, but its pretty obvious we'll be deploying such tactics with emphasis on set plays.

The only down side to him that i can see is his perceived lack of effort. I think this is grossly over hyped. His culture is extremely laid back and i think its just in his blood. Its not a case of laziness. From what i knew of him down here he seemed very quiet, grounded and if anything a shy lad. On the whole he'd be an excellent signing.

As for people mentioning Beattie. He is simply a confidence player. When he is star of the show and the main man upfront he's awsome. As soon as he is in competition for places or accolades with anyone half decent he shrinks.

As a football coach myself, That is a very good assessment of a player,are you into coaching or scouting?

Some excellent points and I take them on board, if I were a manager with those comments, I would be looking at the lad like a shot!

Excellent post!!

[den]

So why would Sunderland sell him?

I saw him at Ewood last season and he was poor. Missed a couple of sitters from what I remember and made no headway whatsoever.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

So why would Sunderland sell him?

I saw him at Ewood last season and he was poor. Missed a couple of sitters from what I remember and made no headway whatsoever.

When he scored that overhead kick?

[patrickvalery]

As a football coach myself, That is a very good assessment of a player,are you into coaching or scouting?

Some excellent points and I take them on board, if I were a manager with those comments, I would be looking at the lad like a shot!

Excellent post!!

Cheers Kelbo. I wish i was into coaching or scouting. If i was i certainly wouldn't be sat here at work until 6 tomorrow morning!

Don't get to watch much live football at the moment. A young family and limited resources put a stop to that little pleasure. But cheap viewing of football at a level such as Southampton reserves is somewhere you can learn a lot about a player. I've been lucky (or unlucky) enough to see a lot of so called big names play in such environments and you can immediately see who is there for the pay cheque and who is there for the love of the game.

Someone mentioned last year that we should look at Rudi Skacel. I've never seen a less enthusiastic player in my life. It was clear he had no desire to win back his place in the xi. But Jones was always one of the few who looked as if he enjoyed the game. He spent a couple of years kicking about in the reserves or out on loan but always came back and put a good shift in.

Whether we sign him or not, i'm glad the lad is doing well for himself. He has done it the hard way and has earned his reputation. I'm astonished we are looking at him to be honest. I felt he had reached a level which was probably beyond us. If we were luck enough to get him i don't imagine he'd stay for his entire career. But....and i may regret the day i say this....he doesn't strike me as the sort who'd manufacture a move away in the ways we have become accustomed to.

Decent lad. Decent footballer. Very decent signing.

[PAFELL]

So why would Sunderland sell him?

I saw him at Ewood last season and he was poor. Missed a couple of sitters from what I remember and made no headway whatsoever.

Because they now have money to buy better, therefore Jones would become surplus to requirements etc. He does have good pace and is worth looking at. If Sam does play his usual kick and run stuff, havig Jones up front with his pace would cause defenders problems imo.

[LeChuck]

So why would Sunderland sell him?

Because they have the money to buy Crouch and Bent, the former of whom Allardyce would also have ahead of Jones, and you would have to presume Bent as well.

I'm warming to the idea of Jones, on his day he's unplayable, it's just getting him to have those days on a regular basis. He's by far my first choice of all the domestic players we've been linked to so far.

[T4E]

So why would Sunderland sell him?

I saw him at Ewood last season and he was poor. Missed a couple of sitters from what I remember and made no headway whatsoever.

Is it possible we've got the only centre half in the league capable of nullifying his strengths? Genuine question, I didn't see the Sunderland game.

[den]

Because they have the money to buy Crouch and Bent,

So the people at Sunderland, who know Jones inside out, think that Crouch and Bent are both better players than Jones?

That should tell us a lot LeChuck. I suppose it depends how much you rate Crouch, - another one who was totally anonymous at Ewood and is overrated.

[blue phil]

Overrated by you maybe , Den , but Crouch's record speaks for itself .

You have to remember we are not the most attractive club for the top players ; we have to live within our means and get the most out the players that we can get here .

Crouch , Jones , McCarthy and Roberts ? I know which two I'd have starting for us ........

[FourLaneBlue]

That should tell us a lot LeChuck. I suppose it depends how much you rate Crouch, - another one who was totally anonymous at Ewood and is overrated.

I am sure you will tell me if this is not fair but you do seem on here to have this knack of writing off players after seeing them in one match. I remember you saying Derbyshire would never be any good but we did get 3million plus for him.

Crouch is a good player. Why mention one of his poor games and not a game when he scored such as the game against Rovers at Fratton Park? There are plenty others of those. You want someone who plays well all the time? How many of those exist? More importantly...which of them would even think about joining Rovers?

As for "So the people at Sunderland, who know Jones inside out, think that Crouch and Bent are both better players than Jones?"...well, we are only guessing. There might not be a chance they will let Jones go. The person at Sunderland that matters most though is Steve Bruce and we do not know his intentions.

[rovers_rob]

Radio Lancashire have reported that Sam is not interested in signing Jones. He confirmed that he was playing golf with Bruce in Portugal but they did not discuss the possibility of a transfer.

[den]

I am sure you will tell me if this is not fair but you do seem on here to have this knack of writing off players after seeing them in one match. I remember you saying Derbyshire would never be any good but we did get 3million plus for him.

You think Derbyshire was good FLB? I said a couple of seasons back, that if a young striker like Derbyshire was going to make it, then he needed to be in the first team by the age of 21/22. Lots of people disagreed. Same went for Gally. Was I right or wrong?

As for writing off players after one match - who are you talking about? I've never done that.

Radio Lancashire have reported that Sam is not interested in signing Jones. He confirmed that he was playing golf with Bruce in Portugal but they did not discuss the possibility of a transfer.

Good news.

[tcj_jones]

Radio Lancashire have reported that Sam is not interested in signing Jones. He confirmed that he was playing golf with Bruce in Portugal but they did not discuss the possibility of a transfer.

Disapointing

[den]

Crouch is a good player.

Crouch is a penalty area player, not one iota of a threat from outside the box.

[LeftWinger]

If I was Sam I'd play down signing Jones if I was asked. We really don't want everyone to know who we are interested in signing and push the price up.

[den]

Crouch is a good player. Why mention one of his poor games and not a game when he scored such as the game against Rovers at Fratton Park? There are plenty others of those. You want someone who plays well all the time? How many of those exist? More importantly...which of them would even think about joining Rovers?

Again - where have I said that I want someone who plays well all the time? If you're going to pick up on my posts, at least quote them correctly. As for us not being able to attract players who play consistently well, - we've just bought and sold Rocky. We also had Bellamy etc, etc......