[Archived] Kenwyne Jones

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Kuqi scored a number of important goals for us, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point, that trying to clarify a players strengths and weaknesses on the internet is pretty difficult. I say that "Kenwyne Jones doesn't threaten from outside the area" and someone else replies "nor did RVN"

S'impossible innit

You have to expect opposition to a viewpoint if it's been clearly proved otherwise earlier on. Did you watch that video someone posted? I can't be bothered tracking it down so I'll youtube it for you.

I apologise for the terribly put together video but you should get the gist of it.

[MeanGreenMachine]

We can and MUST do better than the likes of Jones.

I will take the opinion of the Sunderland fans who ive spoke to, and they seem to think he is at a better level than what we are at. Jones we be a fantastic signing.

[tcj_jones]

It was deceptive with Kuqi, Den. He was a big clumsy dynamo who, almost like a boulder, who collect speed as he rolled downhill. I'd never have called him quick.

I just can't help but think that you're hugely biased against players like Jones purely because of their height.

[den]

It was deceptive with Kuqi, Den. He was a big clumsy dynamo who, almost like a boulder, who collect speed as he rolled downhill. I'd never have called him quick.

I just can't help but think that you're hugely biased against players like Jones purely because of their height.

tcj, it was a joke.

But seeing as you mention it, what exactly do you mean when you say I'm biased against players I don't rate?

Explain please.

EDIT: you mean I only like small strikers? How weird.

[truth is I like "footballers, - not players put there predominantly for their strength, physique or to knock people about. You know - players with technical ability].

[tcj_jones]

tcj, it was a joke.

But seeing as you mention it, what exactly do you mean when you say I'm biased against players I don't rate?

Explain please.

EDIT: you mean I only like small strikers? How weird.

[truth is I like "footballers, - not players put there predominantly for their strength, physique or to knock people about. You know - players with technical ability].

Sorry Den, it's been a loooong day.

I know what you mean at the end of your post, but honestlty, I think that Jones is a good technical player and that Crouch, for example, definitely is.

What I am saying is that you can be critical of Sam's football, but not necessarily judge a player's technical ability on the basis that Sam is in for him, or that the particular player also has a lot of strength and can know people about. Also, outside of the top four, and perhaps Everton and Villa, it is difficult for clubs to get especially gifted technical forwards and that physical strength and aerial ability are hugely important. That's even more the case for an Allardyce team.

That's just my take, I'm not meaning to have a go.

[den]

That's just my take, I'm not meaning to have a go.

No probs tcj. It would be nice for us to sign him and for me to be proved totally wrong about him and you totally right. I could accept that quite easily.

[Tom]

I'd be happy with Jones, he is far better than wwhat I am expecting at present.

Can't see it happening though

[Bazzanotsogreat]

tcj, it was a joke.

But seeing as you mention it, what exactly do you mean when you say I'm biased against players I don't rate?

Explain please.

EDIT: you mean I only like small strikers? How weird.

[truth is I like "footballers, - not players put there predominantly for their strength, physique or to knock people about. You know - players with technical ability].

Den it is clear that you have never properly watched Jones.

You are basing your opinion of him solely based on his size/physique and the stereotype that follows Big Sam around. Yes he is a brute of a specimen, but he is also a good footballer with good technique and pace. Criticisms of his game are heskey like- not using his size, not a good finisher etc. However, if nurtured all the raw ingredients are there- strong, quick, good in the air, good technique etc.

If we could get him for between 6-8 million we will have a player- with a lot of re-sale value and would compliment a box player such as Benni.

[den]

Den it is clear that you have never properly watched Jones.

You differ from me in your opinion of Jones, Bazza, - so that means I've never properly watched him?

You are basing your opinion of him solely based on his size/physique and the stereotype that follows Big Sam around.

I've been watching football long enough to be able to work things out for myself Bazza. I might not always be right, but I don't have any pre-concieved ideas about Kenwyne Jones.

Yes he is a brute of a specimen, but he is also a good footballer with good technique and pace. Criticisms of his game are heskey like- not using his size, not a good finisher etc. However, if nurtured all the raw ingredients are there- strong, quick, good in the air, good technique etc.

He isn't, in my opinion, any better a finisher than Roberts, and that's not something that can be nurtured, any more than Aaron Lennon can be taught how to cross a ball

If we could get him for between 6-8 million we will have a player- with a lot of re-sale value and would compliment a box player such as Benni.

and as I said to tcj, I would love to be proved wrong.

[Jordanknox]

Sunderland fan here, just read this thread and its one of the funniest ive seen for a while

Niall Quinn said only a few weeks ago that he'd turned down a bid in the region of 15-20m for Jones in January from Spurs, Kenwyne then signed a new 4 year deal worth over 50k a week. He scored 12 goals in 25 games in a struggling team after coming back from a serious knee injury so why would his value plummet so much?

People saying that they must do better than Jones :lol:

Also even if we sign Campbell and Crouch or Bent that still would only leave SAFC with 3 strikers. We are only after 2 strikers because atm Kenwyne is the only striker that we have on the books. Chopra has gone to Cardiff, Cisse to Panathanaikos, Murphy off to Ipswich and Healy is on the verge of leaving.

The only way he will leave Sunderland is if we get a monster bid e.g. 25m+ and even then it would only be to a bigger club

So i think we can put this one to bed

[ffan]

The only way he will leave Sunderland is if we get a monster bid e.g. 25m+ and even then it would only be to a bigger club

So i think we can put this one to bed

25 million for Jones!

8 million would be fair.

[Kelbo]

Sunderland fan here, just read this thread and its one of the funniest ive seen for a while

Niall Quinn said only a few weeks ago that he'd turned down a bid in the region of 15-20m for Jones in January from Spurs, Kenwyne then signed a new 4 year deal worth over 50k a week. He scored 12 goals in 25 games in a struggling team after coming back from a serious knee injury so why would his value plummet so much?

People saying that they must do better than Jones :lol:

Also even if we sign Campbell and Crouch or Bent that still would only leave SAFC with 3 strikers. We are only after 2 strikers because atm Kenwyne is the only striker that we have on the books. Chopra has gone to Cardiff, Cisse to Panathanaikos, Murphy off to Ipswich and Healy is on the verge of leaving.

The only way he will leave Sunderland is if we get a monster bid e.g. 25m+ and even then it would only be to a bigger club

So i think we can put this one to bed

But your manager doesnt fancy him, end of!!

[Jordanknox]

But your manager doesnt fancy him, end of!!

Source?

25 million for Jones!

8 million would be fair.

8m? We signed him for 6m 2 years ago as an unproven striker, first season in the premiership in a poor side he got 7 goals and 11 assists (second only to Fabregas). Second season he picked up a knee ligament injury that could have wrecked his career, he came back and scored 12 goals in 25 games. We then turned down a 20m bid in January so why would he be worth 8m and Santa Cruz worth 18?

[ffan]

Source?

8m? We signed him for 6m 2 years ago as an unproven striker, first season in the premiership in a poor side he got 7 goals and 11 assists (second only to Fabregas). Second season he picked up a knee ligament injury that could have wrecked his career, he came back and scored 12 goals in 25 games. We then turned down a 20m bid in January so why would he be worth 8m and Santa Cruz worth 18?

20 million? You think he's better than Cruz?

[Jordanknox]

20 million? You think he's better than Cruz?

Well Cruz isnt worth 18m after 1 good season at 28 years old

I dont know who's better but looking at their records and ages, there isnt 10m diffrence

[mark1875]

The only way he will leave Sunderland is if we get a monster bid e.g. 25m+ and even then it would only be to a bigger club

So i think we can put this one to bed

considering its at least 8 years since sunderland were able to place above rovers in the table (7 years of them 8 was rovers leaving sunderland for dead) ? "bigger club" is a funny word, look wer being a big club got your neighbours? and you aint fared much better either

[den]

Coming to Ewood would be coming to a bigger club, wouldn't it?

I mean - Sunderland a big club? In which way?

[Jordanknox]

Coming to Ewood would be coming to a bigger club, wouldn't it?

I mean - Sunderland a big club? In which way?

I didnt come here to start this but Sunderland have a big stadium and facilities etc with passionate fans and a young enthusiastic chairman. Just been taken over and have a lot of money to spend to add to a decent squad and it looks like we are on the up. Sunderland are now an attractive proposition to players atm imo.

[mark1875]

I didnt come here to start this but Sunderland have a big stadium and facilities etc with passionate fans and a young enthusiastic chairman. Just been taken over and have a lot of money to spend to add to a decent squad and it looks like we are on the up. Sunderland are now an attractive proposition to players atm imo.

sounds like newcastle and leeds all over again lol

but seriously we have all been there and when this happens u sell players, especially the fans favourites, to get them off the wage bill and bring in the players the new manager wants!! it happens after a takeover and new manager comes in.

it may or may not happen, but Bruce and Big Sam wer in portugal together last weekend so Sam will know by now if Bruce wants him or not.

p.s 25 million?? and u say nicko is on drugs lol?

[den]

I didnt come here to start this but Sunderland have a big stadium and facilities etc with passionate fans and a young enthusiastic chairman. Just been taken over and have a lot of money to spend to add to a decent squad and it looks like we are on the up. Sunderland are now an attractive proposition to players atm imo.

Passionate fans? Yes, you are in a big catchment area and can draw 45000 fans when you're doing well. Lose a few though and you lose 20000 fans in a matter of months. Passionate my bum.

Oh and having money doesn't get you accepted as a big club. We should know that.

[Wedge]

If you really think Jones will go to Blackburn for £8m then you are deluded or know nothing about football.

We turned down a £20m bid from Spurs for him in January, he then signed a new contract on £50k a week - why would we sell 6 months later for £8m? He may not be worth £20m but still...we bought him for £6m as an unproven Championship striker ffs. Only £2m profit? I don't think so.

And if he was to become available for transfer (i.e. if we get both Bent and Crouch) then there will be bigger clubs than Blackburn in for him I think - no offence.

[Blue blood]

I didnt come here to start this but Sunderland have a big stadium - rovers have a nice stadium too - and facilities etc - major selling point with rovers, the facilities at brockhall are very well regarded with passionate fans not having a go but recall asignificant drop when you've been doing badly and a young enthusiastic chairman Williams has run the club magnificently (Ince aside) over the past decade or so . Just been taken over and have a lot of money to spend true but so do lots of other teams - that's not a massive factor any more unless you have City type money to add to a decent squad i'd say the rovers squad is better and it looks like we are on the up likewise . Sunderland are now an attractive proposition to players atm imo. agreed but no more so then blackburn. also factor in honours over the past twenty years, and comparative league positions all of which fall in rovers favour

Not trying to have a go at your team, nothing against sunderland and like it as an away trip but I don't think you can really suggest that rovers would be a step down for Jones.

[Wedge]

Passionate fans? Yes, you are in a big catchment area and can draw 45000 fans when you're doing well. Lose a few though and you lose 20000 fans in a matter of months. Passionate my bum.

Oh and having money doesn't get you accepted as a big club. We should know that.

We got bigger crowds in the Championship than Blackburn got when they won the league...

[Jordanknox]

sounds like newcastle and leeds all over again lol

but seriously we have all been there and when this happens u sell players, especially the fans favourites, to get them off the wage bill and bring in the players the new manager wants!! it happens after a takeover and new manager comes in.

it may or may not happen, but Bruce and Big Sam wer in portugal together last weekend so Sam will know by now if Bruce wants him or not.

p.s 25 million?? and u say nicko is on drugs lol?

Im not saying that Sunderland are a huge club, bloody hell we just stayed up last season. We are targetting the top 8 in the next few years but im fully aware that we need at least 7 players added to the squad to achieve this. I would settle for 12th next season which is achievable.

There hasnt been any talk up here that Bruce doesnt want Jones, hes the only striker on out books atm

I dont think that Jones is worth 25m, im saying thats what would need to be offered if we were to sell him as we turned down 20m in January.

"And Ellis' involvement to date also enabled us to turn down a club record bid of up to £20million for Kenwyne Jones from Tottenham Hotspur in the January transfer window. " Thats a quote from Niall Quinn a few weeks ago.

[den]

We got bigger crowds in the Championship than Blackburn got when they won the league...

If you got the same %age of the people of Sunderland watching your lot, as we do watching rovers, you would need 200,000 on. Like I said, you lose 20000 overnight.