[Archived] Afghanistan

[ABBEY]

NUKE EM ! no more of our soldiers dying and our drug laden streets a lot safer.heartless yea effective yes.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Sadly, violence has escalated to the point that Iraq is far more dangerous now than it was under Hussein.

Granted, Iraq under Hussein wasn't exactly plain sailing for many Iraqis of course.

Dangerous, for who the estimated 2 million people can't be accounted during Saddam's tyranical regime? the situation In Iraq although still extremley dangerous; is actually must better.

[BuckyRover]

To summarise. Afghanistan borders Pakistan and Pakistan is a nuclear state. A failed Afghanistan with Taliban leadership would attempt to take of control Pakistan and their nuclear weapons which would result in armageddon.

We need to defeat the insurgents. I am not totally sure how a "win" can be defined but that isn't my job.

Gordon Brown is a git for not sending the require resources. It was one of the first things Obama did when he took office (but on the other hand the police wanted 90 days detention and you shouldn't always give people what they want, I don't know the INS and outs)

[1864roverite]

Iraq is in turmoil as a result of the invasion a few years ago. It is now a haven for terrorism and the Iraqi people cannot walk the streets of their own country in safety.

Quite wrong about that one mate.

Since the invasion and deaths of the "regime", Iraq has slowly but surely recovered.

Yes, there are still issues but Iraq is now almost a free country, thriving in business, has a distinctly better equipped law and order, has a much better lead military organisation and will further prosper in the future.

You can actually walk the streets of Iraq without fear of being singled out because your "non arabic" in the majority of cities.

There will always be radicals who threaten the good cause of the poeple now in charge and the cling ons to the previous regime will try their best to disrupt the good ethos in that country.

You can travel in and out of the country. Iraqi's now have their own freedom to come and go as they please, something they have never had in their lives. There is importation ans exportation business. Fresh water flows through the city, sewage and other utlilties are restored beyond comparison to what it used to be. The rivers are free of sewage, oil revenue is being reedistributed within its own country instead of lining the pockets of the Hussain family. An elecected party voted in by its own people is in place.

So you see despite the car bombs, it has worked although its taken a long time.

[jim mk2]

The government deserves criticism for failing to provide the military with the necessary numbers and equipment and the recent sharp rise in British casualties is upsetting but the war in Afghanistan is right and just.

I despise this newspaper but this comment piece this week sums up perfectly why we cannot walk away.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegra...-away-from.html

[BuckyRover]

Quite wrong about that one mate.

Since the invasion and deaths of the "regime", Iraq has slowly but surely recovered.

Yes, there are still issues but Iraq is now almost a free country, thriving in business, has a distinctly better equipped law and order, has a much better lead military organisation and will further prosper in the future.

You can actually walk the streets of Iraq without fear of being singled out because your "non arabic" in the majority of cities.

There will always be radicals who threaten the good cause of the poeple now in charge and the cling ons to the previous regime will try their best to disrupt the good ethos in that country.

You can travel in and out of the country. Iraqi's now have their own freedom to come and go as they please, something they have never had in their lives. There is importation ans exportation business. Fresh water flows through the city, sewage and other utlilties are restored beyond comparison to what it used to be. The rivers are free of sewage, oil revenue is being reedistributed within its own country instead of lining the pockets of the Hussain family. An elecected party voted in by its own people is in place.

So you see despite the car bombs, it has worked although its taken a long time.

Very true. The media has never mentioned the "good" that has arisen from the debacle that was the Iraq war. They got bored when it started getting better. It is now rarely even mentioned in the news, which is definitely a good thing.

Progess has been made.

[Ritchie]

Quite wrong about that one mate.

Since the invasion and deaths of the "regime", Iraq has slowly but surely recovered.

Yes, there are still issues but Iraq is now almost a free country, thriving in business, has a distinctly better equipped law and order, has a much better lead military organisation and will further prosper in the future.

You can actually walk the streets of Iraq without fear of being singled out because your "non arabic" in the majority of cities.

There will always be radicals who threaten the good cause of the poeple now in charge and the cling ons to the previous regime will try their best to disrupt the good ethos in that country.

You can travel in and out of the country. Iraqi's now have their own freedom to come and go as they please, something they have never had in their lives. There is importation ans exportation business. Fresh water flows through the city, sewage and other utlilties are restored beyond comparison to what it used to be. The rivers are free of sewage, oil revenue is being reedistributed within its own country instead of lining the pockets of the Hussain family. An elecected party voted in by its own people is in place.

So you see despite the car bombs, it has worked although its taken a long time.

The Iraqi people have suffered for a long time and will continue to do so.

The country is an insecure state that requires military presence to keep the whole bloody thing together. I admire your optimism for the future of the country but I suspect that the Iraqi people will have to endure bombings and bloodshed for some time yet.

It will be rather interesting to see what happens to Iraq in the next 10, 20, 30 years.

Very true. The media has never mentioned the "good" that has arisen from the debacle that was the Iraq war. They got bored when it started getting better. It is now rarely even mentioned in the news, which is definitely a good thing.

Progess has been made.

Over a million people have been killed. Progress indeed.

[JAL]

Whats Iraq got to do with Afghanistan isnt this topic about Afghanistan ?

[DP]

To answer AS, the topic starter:

No I'm not entirely sure what we're doing in Afghanistan. Fighting the war on terror apparently.

The points 1864 makes are good and valid, but it all seems like the mission in Afghanistan hasn't been given the same levels of priority as Iraq was. We all know that was about oil, and that's why the coalition forces progressed at the speed they did, but now we have this rather half hearted operation going on and it smacks of dishonesty and a lack of a clear goal.

Our soldiers don't have the correct equipment and are under resourced even to the point that there isn't enough food. This comes from the soldiers themselves, writtern in letters to their loved ones. It's scary for one and pretty disgraceful when you think about it.

Now they're there, it's difficult to withdraw. But, better to pull out than continue without the best resources possible and working with a corrupt Government who has no desire to cooperate.

[BuckyRover]

In 1987/1988 Hussein killed circa. 150,000 Kurdish in poison gas attacks.

The great days of Iraq.....

Did you expect it to blow over in 5 minutes? It takes time. The world is a better place without Saddam the dictator.

We cannot pull out and we definitely won't pull out. The article jim referenced sums it up perfectly, the reasons why we are there and will continue to be there.

A Taliban state with nuclear weapons? We would be praying for the Goverment to upgrade Trident

[Ritchie]

In 1987/1988 Hussein killed circa. 150,000 Kurdish in poison gas attacks.

The great days of Iraq.....

Did you expect it to blow over in 5 minutes? It takes time. The world is a better place without Saddam the dictator.

We cannot pull out and we definitely won't pull out. The article jim referenced sums it up perfectly, the reasons why we are there and will continue to be there.

A Taliban state with nuclear weapons? We would be praying for the Goverment to upgrade Trident

Hussein was supported by the USA and UK, who also just happened to encourage the invasion of Iran. The great days indeed. As for taking time... like I said the Iraqi people will continue to live in fear for many years to come. Still, I suppose they can be filed under collateral if and when they are killed.

As for a Taliban state with nuclear weapons... get ready Bucky, because Pakistan is one assassination away from being just that. And the British Army as well as the rest won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

[RIML]

NUKE EM ! no more of our soldiers dying and our drug laden streets a lot safer.heartless yea effective yes.

If only the government thought the same. We're too soft, if they end the war now, we've lost and the people who have lost their life's have died for pretty much nothing.

"Never stop fighting till the fight is done" is what Eliot Ness said and I couldn't agree more.

And your not bothered that the majority of the people that you'd probably kill are normal civilians?

What? People that I'd probably kill? Do you mean from a bomb. It's a bloody war, innocent people do die, the Taliban most probably kill more innocent people, whereas the British troops are trying to avoid killing innocent civilians and losing their life's.

It's time we got tough. We need to get more helicopters to patrol certain areas, we also need to bomb them, we're being too particular in trying to save civilians life's and our soldiers are dying in the process, we're trying to do the right thing and it's simply not working, it's time for a new strategy whether people agree or not is a different matter, too many people have lost their life's now, it's time we did something about it, I know discussing on a forum isn't exactly going to help but I'm just stating what needs to be done whether you like it or not.

[JAL]

To answer AS, the topic starter:

No I'm not entirely sure what we're doing in Afghanistan. Fighting the war on terror apparently.

The points 1864 makes are good and valid, but it all seems like the mission in Afghanistan hasn't been given the same levels of priority as Iraq was. We all know that was about oil, and that's why the coalition forces progressed at the speed they did, but now we have this rather half hearted operation going on and it smacks of dishonesty and a lack of a clear goal.

Our soldiers don't have the correct equipment and are under resourced even to the point that there isn't enough food. This comes from the soldiers themselves, writtern in letters to their loved ones. It's scary for one and pretty disgraceful when you think about it.

Now they're there, it's difficult to withdraw. But, better to pull out than continue without the best resources possible and working with a corrupt Government who has no desire to cooperate.

Read my post, the destruction of HEROIN or the people profiting from it !

This has to be controlled or quashed IF possible controlled is the most probable solution.

Some of you guys must live in some very safe havens not to be affected by this potent highly dangerous drug that if things were allowed to continue the shape of this country would take on a different way of life in future years one that we simply wouldnt want.

[colin]

Mmmm, Nuclear bombs. That'll solve everything.

Time to get tough, Elliot Ness has spoken. Kill everyone. Leave the place a radio-active wasteland.

The 99% of the Afghanistan population who just want to get in living their peaceful lives will no doubt appreciate your opinion.

And concern.

[Hasta]

What? People that I'd probably kill? Do you mean from a bomb. It's a bloody war, innocent people do die, the Taliban most probably kill more innocent people, whereas the British troops are trying to avoid killing innocent civilians and losing their life's.

It's time we got tough. We need to get more helicopters to patrol certain areas, we also need to bomb them, we're being too particular in trying to save civilians life's and our soldiers are dying in the process, we're trying to do the right thing and it's simply not working, it's time for a new strategy whether people agree or not is a different matter, too many people have lost their life's now, it's time we did something about it, I know discussing on a forum isn't exactly going to help but I'm just stating what needs to be done whether you like it or not.

How do you think mindlessly bombing Afghan towns regardless will help? We already know the Taliban blend into the public to stop them being identified. They don't all have bright pink uniforms on to help recognised them. Do we just basically just wipe out the population of all towns and hope that we've got all the bad ones? Do you think that will allow us to keep any alliance at all that we have with the Afghan people in place? Do you think that wouldn't turn all Afghans against us? Then we'd have to wipe the whole lot out and eradicate the Afghan population. Would that not turn the whole muslim world against us and a hell of a lot of other countries?

We are fighting a faction within a country. If your plan is so good, when we were fighting the IRA why didn't we just nuke Belfast? We lost more servicemen per year there than we are doing in Afghanistan - not that that should make light of the awful loss of life our boys are suffering at the moment.

[Hasta]

Sadly, violence has escalated to the point that Iraq is far more dangerous now than it was under Hussein.

I disagree. I also doubt much of the violence under Hussein was ever reported with the strict control over the media that they had.

It is also worth asking why this violence in Iraq is continuing. Who is doing the bombing and killing, who are they targeting and what do they hope to achieve?

[BuckyRover]

Read my post, the destruction of HEROIN or the people profiting from it !

This has to be controlled or quashed IF possible controlled is the most probable solution.

Some of you guys must live in some very safe havens not to be affected by this potent highly dangerous drug that if things were allowed to continue the shape of this country would take on a different way of life in future years one that we simply wouldnt want.

I appreciate your concern, but I have more faith in the population of this country to believe that just because the Afghan's are producing poppy seeds everyone will suddenly decide to become a smack head.

Very few people get morbibly addicted to any drug, a minority will, but that will always be the case.

I know many people that do drugs regularly, yet I don't know any that have even tried heroin let alone become addicted to it.

It is a drug of the destitute. Maybe it will increase during the recession but not to the scale that you are predicting.

[Grabbi Graeme]

Driving home the other night I was listening to radio 5 and there was a couple talking who had lost their son in the conflict in Afghanistan, they said that they felt that their son's death and the death of other service personel would be in vain if UK forces pulled out of Afghaistan and they felt that the fight on terrorism has to been seen through to the end.

I do agree with them, pulling out now would be a sign of weakness and an invite for Al Quieda to further their terror campaign.

[RIML]

Mmmm, Nuclear bombs. That'll solve everything.

Time to get tough, Elliot Ness has spoken. Kill everyone. Leave the place a radio-active wasteland.

The 99% of the Afghanistan population who just want to get in living their peaceful lives will no doubt appreciate your opinion.

And concern.

Take a look at who suggested nuclear bombs because I take it that's a dig at me

People are suggesting we stop fighting and I said never stop fighting til the fight is done. The fight is not done, so don't stop fighting. So please cut your sarcasm, there is really no need.

I suggested bombs and people seem to think I don't care about the innocent civilians. Of course I care but what do you expect in a warzone.

Let's state the obvious, the Taliban are fighting with bombs, we are fighting with mainly tanks and guns, it's clearly obviously who's going to win. I'm not saying what the troops are doing is not the way forward because Gordon Brown seems to reiterate the fact that we are making progress but it's time the government started doing something, what that something is I don't know.

[dave birch]

One of the problems with a conflict like this is, you have people from other countries fighting a war against people who live in the country.

Those that live there have a vested interest and don't want to give up. It is a guerilla war in all intents and purposes.

I'd ask anyone one here, what would you do if you had foreign troops fighting a war on your land?

[RIML]

One of the problems with a conflict like this is, you have people from other countries fighting a war against people who live in the country.

Those that live there have a vested interest and don't want to give up. It is a guerilla war in all intents and purposes.

I'd ask anyone one here, what would you do if you had foreign troops fighting a war on your land?

That's a good point. I maybe wrong but I was under the impression we wanted to help the innocent civilians, our troops are fighting to help the people of that country I guess

[BiggusLaddus]

Why we in Afghanistan ?

You want to come to Blackburn visit the town and the psyche ward at Royal Blackburn thats full, and see the young WHITE men totally screwed up through taking heroin grown in Afghanistan imported into the town by the Pakistani community.

Young white men totally screwed up whilst Asian men drive around in their top of the range fancy cars buying up all the housing and commercial properties that are available- thats why!.

Its an accusation that doesnt apply to all of the asian community but most certainly a section of it.

I was under the impression that the ammount of opium grown in Afganistan has gone up since the start of the war as it was frowned upon by the Taliban.

The Afgans only saw off the USSR because there was a call to arms for muslims from anywhere to go to help defend them AND they were heavily backed by the western powers, including the UK. This time around their cause appears to have much less attraction and they are not backed by any superpowers.

We need to see this one through to the end or the consequences will be much worse than the embarrasment and 40years of pisstaking that the US had to put up with from losing in Vietnam.

[thenodrog]

Mmmm, Nuclear bombs. That'll solve everything.

Time to get tough, Elliot Ness has spoken. Kill everyone. Leave the place a radio-active wasteland.

The 99% of the Afghanistan population who just want to get in living their peaceful lives will no doubt appreciate your opinion.

And concern.

Here we go again. His suggestion is not really an option at this stage, the logistics will prob preclude it, the western powers will be reviled and targetted by muslims across the globe and may even lead to a world war...........

............ but to date and as usual it's a far better suggestion than yours Colin.

Just as an aside if we obliterated half of Afghanistan with nuclear warheads once the dust had settled would anyone be able to distinguish which half had been blitzed and which half hadn't?

[dazmaz]

the biggest problem for our armed forces is the rules of engagment.. Birtish forces can not and will not fire a weapon unless fired upon (think black hawlk down) like many armed forces around the world.. this means that they can see a terrorist actually shooting at them, and then watch them walk away scott free because they have put their gun down, even though they know 100% that the guy was just trying to kill them, many will disagree with this but thats piles of wet sloppy BS in my eyes.. other situations friends in the army have told me about are watching someone walk down a street holding a AK firing shots into the air untill he was within range to kill one of our men, and they couldnt do anything untill this terrorist had actually fired a shot at them, and even atthat point they had to wait for the chain of command to give the green light..

nukes wouldnt help, that would most likely cause a full scale war, and it will also affect countries around afgan, friendly countries at that. though bombing a knows taliban stronghold will help the fight.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

One of the problems with a conflict like this is, you have people from other countries fighting a war against people who live in the country.

Those that live there have a vested interest and don't want to give up. It is a guerilla war in all intents and purposes.

I'd ask anyone one here, what would you do if you had foreign troops fighting a war on your land?

Only problem is that the Taliban are also foreign. The vast bulk of them are from Pakistan. The Taliban were a creation of the Pakistani secret services- to add strategic depth to Pakistan In the first case to overthrow the Russians and create a buffer from the reds (with significant funding from the West) and secondly to place missile depots out of the range of the Indian Air Force.

Only problem with it all, is that the Taliban couldn’t be controlled and wanted Afghanistan all to themselves.