[Archived] Losing Belly Fat

[LeChuck]

just a point to Philip, Shillitoe and Paul that shovelling fruit down is something that we can easily do here but don't. The availability of fruit is nothing to do with location. I suggested that there must be something else other than the availability of fruit which influences our diet / lifestyle.

You do go about making your points in an odd way, but I definitely agree with that. It's cheaper to live on a diet of fresh fruit and veg than it is ready made foods and meat/fish.

A few of my friends who are quite hard up at the moment have ditched meat and fish all together and are just on a diet of fresh vegetables (usually soups and stews) because it's cheaper.

Fruit can be expensive, I usually just take advantage of whatever is in the the Aldi 'super six' for 49p - at the moment I think it's grapes, nectarines and bananas. Local fruit stalls sell cheap apples and oranges too though, much cheaper than the supermarkets. I suggest people just aren't looking hard enough.

[thenodrog]

You do go about making your points in an odd way, but I definitely agree with that. It's cheaper to live on a diet of fresh fruit and veg than it is ready made foods and meat/fish.

Thank you LeChuck for the voice of reason. Obviously like me you do not suffer from SAD syndrome.

btw try replacing the word 'odd' with 'direct'.

[jim mk2]

Wonderful little spat chaps between a clash of cultures.

Just like Scumbag College v Footlights College, Oxbridge in the Young Ones.

Keep it going.

For what it's worth I've lost half a stone in 2 months eating exactly the same food (including the naughty bits) but cutting portions by a third.

Not difficult, and cheaper.

[Andy3809]

Phillip,

A great place full of information is the mens health forum. http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/295109121.

Full of people who can give good advice and also full of recipes ect

[den]

Only on BRFCS.com can we get an argument after someone asks for advice on losing weight. Blimey, nothing changes on here.

As for the topic, - Colin has it right. You can eat whatever you like, do as much or as little excercise as you like, because it's all down to basic science. Spend more calories than you consume and you will lose weight.

[tcj_jones]

Fruit can be expensive, I usually just take advantage of whatever is in the the Aldi 'super six' for 49p - at the moment I think it's grapes, nectarines and bananas. Local fruit stalls sell cheap apples and oranges too though, much cheaper than the supermarkets. I suggest people just aren't looking hard enough.

Not that my local Tesco is expensive or anything, but that Aldi offer is just unbelievable. I wish I had one near by.

[Paul]

For some reason Tris does not like me replying to you in the same manner that you address me, so just this once I'll let your smarmy last paragraph ride. But do me a favour and google the following two words in bold itallics obesity genetics. It should keep you quiet for a while if nothing else.

I wonder if Humble pie is fattening?

OK thenodrog, the first two links which come up from my Google search will certainly keep me quiet for a while, at least until you post your next gem. It does of course bring into question as to who will be eating the humble pie, seems to me it is more likely to be yourself who will need to diet:

This is the NHS view

'While strong genetic effects have been found in extremely rare cases, most obesity is associated with rather weak genetic tendencies that are modifiable by diet and exercise.'

Lead researcher, Professor Colin Palmer

This is the BBC

People with the relevant variants on the gene have a trait which may lead them to eat more unhealthy, fattening foods

Professor Colin Palmer

University of Dundee

Dr Ian Campbell, medical director of the charity Weight Concern, said: "Given that half of us have the FTO gene, making us more prone to eating fatty, sugary foods, this must surely help us to understand how difficult it can be for individuals to simply use will-power to change their behaviour and adopt a healthier diet when their genetic make-up is telling them to do the opposite.

"If we are to tackle this problem adequately, we need to get smarter and start dealing with all the underlying forces that influence our choices. "We need to find ways to make a healthier lifestyle a more attractive and, therefore, an easier option."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It would seem current studies indicate up 50% of the population carry a gene that may lead them to eat more fatty or fattening foods. It's the failure to control the desire to eat fattening food which leads to obesity not the gene.

[John]

Over the past 3 months, I have been suffering from shin splints (from doing a lot of running). My calves are usually quite tight and I think this is where the problem stems from.

Anyone experienced shin splints before?

[American]

I've been told Bananas are a good way to stop them. I got them before, but just gave up running and started biking instead!

[thenodrog]

Wonderful little spat chaps between a clash of cultures.

Just like Scumbag College v Footlights College, Oxbridge in the Young Ones.

Keep it going.

For what it's worth I've lost half a stone in 2 months eating exactly the same food (including the naughty bits) but cutting portions by a third.

Not difficult, and cheaper.

Ah Jim mk2.......... Are you sure losing that weight was not down to you producing the worlds biggest botty burp since Toxteth O'Grady's magnificent effort?

[Kelbo]

Only on BRFCS.com can we get an argument after someone asks for advice on losing weight. Blimey, nothing changes on here.

As for the topic, - Colin has it right. You can eat whatever you like, do as much or as little excercise as you like, because it's all down to basic science. Spend more calories than you consume and you will lose weight.

Exactly, did you see super atko in the masters, piled on weight!!

Like me, as a player, I could eat what I wanted, three four mels a day and snacks!!

Fish & Chips the lot, you train and burn it off, when you stop playing, you eat in a similar way and the weight piles on!

The only way you can diet is to starve yourself or burn off more caloris than you eat, its simple, yet difficult if you are partial to a pie, KFC etc!!

oh, and beer

[SouthAussieRover]

OK thenodrog, the first two links which come up from my Google search will certainly keep me quiet for a while, at least until you post your next gem. It does of course bring into question as to who will be eating the humble pie, seems to me it is more likely to be yourself who will need to diet.

It won't be that long no doubt.

He probably started arguing the moment the doctor or midwife slapped his arse to check he was breathing.

I'm a great believer in 3 regular meals and eat in moderation.

[colin]

It's about a year old, but it's still valid

Guardian Journalist Eats Michael Phelps Daily Intake

Quite funny.

[colin]

He probably started arguing the moment the doctor or midwife slapped his arse to check he was breathing.

Yup. No positive contributions to the subject.

So, Thenodrog, what are your suggestions to lose body fat? I'm sure that lots of us are interested in your positive contribution & suggestions.

Over to you old chap.................

[Andy3809]

Summary: less carbs (especially refined ones), more lean protein, more non-starchy veg and healthy fats combined with some resistance based work. Diet for fat loss. Exercise to keep muscle.

This is in contrast with the old advice of low-fat, high carb combined with cardio which supposedly results in skinny-fat people and yo-yo dieting.

This is not a no-carb or very low-carb diet like Atkins etc. Those are hard to follow for any length of time, may well be unhealthy and appear to result in muscle loss. You should be able to stick to this diet in a loosened form forever.

Studies show that people tend to eat a lot (i.e. way more than they need) of refined carbs and it’s linked with obesity, diabetes and subsequent heart disease. Carbs are easily turned to fat by the body, proteins take more effort. A higher protein:carb ratio in the diet leads to a better body composition in terms of muscle:fat, when combined with resistance exercise. Other advantages of protein over carbs are that they require more energy to metabolise and tend to be more filling for longer. Vegetables are required as they are healthy, fibrous and filling.

To lose fat you have to go into calorie deficit. When in this state you also tend to lose muscle unless you take steps to prevent it. Muscle burns more calories than fat so the less muscular you are the easier it is to regain weight after the diet. Hence people who cut their cals, eat a lot of carbs and don’t do resistance work lose fat and muscle and then put the fat back on as they are burning less calories than they were before they started.

But if you eat plenty of protein throughout the day (so that blood protein levels are high enough for the body to get it’s protein from there, rather than your muscles) and do resistance exercise (which stimulate the growth of muscle), you can not only prevent muscle loss but actually gain some even whilst dieting. So you get leaner, stronger, more muscular whilst feeling fuller and get all the benefits of the various nutrients in veg and fruit.

Diet Rules:

1. Eat lean protein with every meal.

2. Eat non-starchy veg at lunch and dinner (and breakfast if you can work that into it, I can’t)

3. Don’t eat more carb-foods in one meal than the equivalent of 1 slice of bread, a couple of tablespoons of cooked rice, a small potato (size of a snooker ball) and even then for only 2 of the 3 main meals

4. Ideally reserve most carbs for breakfast or for post-workout.

5. When eating carbs, eat unrefined carbs – brown rice, wholewheat products and the like.

6. Avoid fruit-juices, sugary drinks and snacks.

7. Only eat a moderate amount of fruit – a couple of pieces day or less - focus on veg rather than fruit.

8. Don’t get properly hungry – eat if you need to, just stick to the formula

9. Start meals by eating veg (a salad starter is perfect, or just start on the veg bits first), if you start getting full before you’ve finished the meal don’t feel the need to finish it. Save some for later or chuck it. A study showed that people who started meals with a salad tended to lose weight with no other diet intervention simply because it lengthens the meal allowing the hunger urge to catch-up with you wolfing the food down. The other option is to eat more slowly.

10. Keep the booze to the weekend and not too much of it. Spirit + diet mixer is the best. Wine is 2nd best. It’s hard to lose weight if you get ###### up every week unfortunately – unless combined with speed of course.

11. Cut out drinks with sugar in them if possible. Just one if you can’t.

Example diet meals:

Breakfast examples:

- A small protein shake plus a small bowl of low GI cereal (all-bran, something oat-based, weetabix, shredded wheat. Not coco-pops)

- 2 poached eggs on toast

- Yoghurt or two (low sugar) and an apple

Breakfast can be the hardest meal to get protein into since we are so schooled into eating cereals by the manufacturers and tend to be in a rush, hence the protein shake for me. You’d lose just as well skipping the shake but it’s perfect if you are doing exercise and need the protein. However it's not vital.

Lunch example:

- A salad (this can contain beans, pulses, peas, lentils, sweetcorn etc to make it more interesting and carby), wow-fat dressing plus a decent portion of baked chicken, tuna, lean ham, cottage cheese

Dinner examples:

- Grilled salmon with veg and a few new potatoes if this fits with rule 3

- Chicken curry with small portion of rice (rule 3) and broccoli and carrots

- Chilli con carne made with 2-4 times the amount of beans served in a tortilla wrap with salad

It is fine to have a snack or snack-meal between meals as long as they are appropriate.

Snacks – ideally containing protein but this can be impractical at work. A ryvita with cottage cheese is good. But piece of fruit or a small handful of nuts is fine. If you need something more substantial then just add a small meal following the rules. Better to eat healthy than get hungry and lose the plot later on.

Cheats – the odd sweet, square of chocolate or small glass of wine won’t kill you but the more you cheat the worse the results.

Portions of protein are like a can of tuna (not in oil), a chicken breast, ½ tub of cottage cheese, 3-4oz of lean ham. Do a big cook once a week and freeze portions for lunch if it suits.

If you feel you need bigger portions of lean protein because your portion of rice or potatoes is small then go for it.

Fish is lean protein. Battered cod is not. Chicken is lean protein. KFC is not. You get the idea.

If your diet doesn’t contain much in the way of healthy fats (fish, olive oil, nuts) then take some fish oil caps.

Exercise:

Do resistance work three times a week ideally. Twice will do at a push.

By that I mean a full-body workout of weights or bodyweight exercise working all the main muscle groups. Do reps in the 6-12 range ideally. If you can do more than 12 reps then add weight (even if it’s to press-ups). You can go up to 20 reps for legs. Do 2-3 sets per exercise. Note the reps and weights used. Improve on it each week, ideally by adding more weight but adding reps is fine as long as they don’t go over the rep range outlined. If doing weights then do compound moves rather than isolation moves (e.g. do leg press rather than leg extension machine). Train with a weight that makes the last rep of the last set very hard to complete – i.e. you simply cannot complete it or couldn’t do another. Rest 1-2 mins between sets.

The key to this is to train for strength and size, not endurance – hence the rep ranges used. You must try to build your strength (and hence muscle size) over the period. This is what stops you losing your muscle. You are not exercising to burn calories, although you will. Diet for fat-loss, exercise for muscle retention.

Try to make sure you have protein and carbs in your body directly after exercise. Ideally time your exercise so it’s before a meal and put some carbs into that meal. If this isn’t possible then add a small whey protein shake to the diet to drink after your workout (20g-30g in skimmed milk or water. If you can exercise directly after a meal this will do but you might be sick!

Example exercise programs:

Weights:

Dead-lifts

Squats or leg-press

Pull-ups or lat pull-downs

Bench press or dumbbell press

Seated row

Shoulder press

Abs work

Bodyweight:

One-legged bodyweight squats (hold a weight if you need to)

Glute-ham raises or glute bridges

Press-ups

Pull-ups

Handstand press-ups

Abs work

Some Argos dumbbells can be used to supplement home bodyweight work or you can combine weight and bodyweight

If you want to do some “cardio” work (running etc) then try to do it on other days as this can hinder muscle gain.

If you want to increase fat burning then do the exercises in a circuit with 60 seconds or less of rest between sets. You'll find it gives you a severe cardio workout.

Other stuff:

If eating out go for salads and tell them you want to dress if yourself. Failing that just go for a low/medium fat, high protein option ask them to hold the carbs and replace them with other veg.

If there are no sensible choices then ask for a smaller portion of whatever they serve with extra veg.

A bottle of beer or small glass of wine sort of counts as a carb portion. So if you know you will be drinking then cut down the carbs that day. It also means you get ###### more quickly which is good or bad depending on your point of view.

If the diet doesn’t work from the off then you’re eating too much.

If the diet stalls after a couple of months then this is fairly normal. Your metabolic rate will drop when dieting. However it’s not permanent and will go up again. So up your carbs a bit to the point where you don’t lose or gain weight (maybe gain a very small amount). After 2 or 3 weeks go for it again.

If your weight-loss allows it, have a cheat day e.g. Sundays- eat your (slightly smaller roast dinner), have a bit of ice-cream, more wine etc. Don’t go mad, keep things small etc but a bit of a refuel can keep things on track metabolically and mentally.

Keep the fibre levels up.

Drink enough water but don't get obsessive about necking multiple litres a day.

Hope this helps.

[S15]

Nodrog, I'm assuming you're in tip top shape? Or overweight and bitter? Please share.

[DP]

Andy3809 - I think most people on here want to trim up a touch not enter the next Mr Universe.

In this country I think we eat too much bread, particularly bread full of preservatives. We are a nation of toast and sandwich lovers. Lunctimes at work it's extremely difficult to find something to eat which isn't a sandwich.

As an experiment just try cutting out bread, or even wheat, for a couple of weeks and you'll notice the difference in no time at all. Unfortunately you'll also be depressed as hell.

[thenodrog]

Nodrog, I'm assuming you're in tip top shape? Or overweight and bitter? Please share.

If I am it's cos it's all muscle.

[Andy3809]

Andy3809 - I think most people on here want to trim up a touch not enter the next Mr Universe.

In this country I think we eat too much bread, particularly bread full of preservatives. We are a nation of toast and sandwich lovers. Lunctimes at work it's extremely difficult to find something to eat which isn't a sandwich.

As an experiment just try cutting out bread, or even wheat, for a couple of weeks and you'll notice the difference in no time at all. Unfortunately you'll also be depressed as hell.

Dp, appreciate that mate. Just thought it best to get it all down then if people reading can pick out one or two bits that they could accommodate easily then it would be a help.

Fully agree with your post by the way. White bread especially is truly horrible stuff. Full of chemicals, preservatives and has the nutritional composition of cardboard. You can substitute this with Rye wraps which are much better or wholemeal just be sure to check the labels to make sure it's not just white bread in disguise.

[S15]

Dp, appreciate that mate. Just thought it best to get it all down then if people reading can pick out one or two bits that they could accommodate easily then it would be a help.

Fully agree with your post by the way. White bread especially is truly horrible stuff. Full of chemicals, preservatives and has the nutritional composition of cardboard. You can substitute this with Rye wraps which are much better or wholemeal just be sure to check the labels to make sure it's not just white bread in disguise.

And there's the proof of how dangerously obsessive it can all get.

As with most in life, your own common sense will get you further than what you get force fed in magazines. If you genuinely have no idea prior to eating something whether its good for you or not then you have bigger problems than your diet. Same theory applies if you can't figure out whether no exercise is enough. Nobody gets fat by eating white bread. They fat by filling it with sh*t and sitting on there arse all day. British culture. Then a magazine tells us we're idiots, so we buy a gym membership, go for a couple of Sundays, then pay 25 quid a month for a year and never go. Point proven.

If people just thought before they shoved something in there gob (make your own jokes), then alot of bullshit publications would go out of business very quickly. This is in no way aimed at Philip, as it sounds like his visit was under extreme circumstances, and food didn't matter one jot. But all this obsessive crap lifted from advantage taking magazines annoys me a little.

Exercise and don't eat too much crap. Use your own judgement. That simple.

[philipl]

Extending the thread but it includes hang-ups about wobbly middles, no nonsense comments about health for over 50s men

Seems to boil down to do nothing and definitely don't marry Carla Bruni. Hmm, I think I can manage that.

[thenodrog]

Seems to boil down to do nothing and definitely don't marry Carla Bruni. Hmm, I think I can manage that.

S'funny ....... maybe I'm not quite normal but I've never ever even considered what it must be like to stand at the alter in a Morning suit and winged collar with Carla Bruni Philip. Other things yes, marriage no. Is there something wrong with me?

[colin]

S'funny ....... maybe I'm not quite normal but I've never ever even considered what it must be like to stand at the alter in a Morning suit and winged collar with Carla Bruni Philip. Other things yes, marriage no. Is there something wrong with me?

No you are a completely normal homosexual male. No worries mate. "Altar" BTW

[Rover Down Under]

OK I am early 50s but through a combination of medication for other things and coming back to England and being in a far more sedentary situation than is normal for me, I piled 10kgs and a really significant spare tire on this spring.

I am back to being my more physically active self and eating/drinking far more carefully but the belly fat is just not shifting.

Ideas? Suggestions?

As many have said fruit & veg are essential for keeping the weight down (and preventing disease) as well as avoiding processed food as much as you can. Unfortunately, there are 3 problems with this:

1. Most people (95% here in Australia according to stats) don't consume the recommended daily amounts, often due to a combination of todays hectic lifestyle and the fact they just don't really like them as much as processed food (which is cheaper and more convenient)

2. Fruit and veg farming today has been subject to Mcdonaldisation. In other words getting the maximum profit for minimum effort and outlay. Fruit & veg today is just not as nutritious as it used to be. It is picked too early before it is fully vine ripened, it is grown in nutritient deficient soil and is covered in pesticides and herbicides. It is also often cooled and stored for months at a time. Most of the stuff on supermarket stores these days are just husks, they look great but are completely deficient inside (to which I have coined the phrase "bimbo fruit and veg"). I'm personally suspicious of any apple that is so shiny it burns my retinas.

3. Even just consuming lots of F&V is not sufficient. Cooking them kills most of the nutrients - recent research is also showing that even steaming them kills a significant amount - and they have to be properly masticated (chewed). Things like brocolli, arguably one of the most nutritious veggies around, is a tough SOB to chomp your way through. Research has also shown that today we do not chew our food well enough and therefore we are not absorbing as much in our stomachs.

Generally I try to buy fresh, organic produce from local shops (not Coles or Woolies) or frozen veggies. I also eat a wide a variety as possible including some of the more unusual Asian veggies like Dokudami. If I ever get my own place I will grow my own but for the moment I have to rely on shops.

Additionally I also take a powdered fruit & veg concentrate which makes up for what I don't eat, so I get an additional 5 servings of fruit and 7 of veggie every day in addition to what I actually eat. They've done a lot of very good research on it and everyone I know who takes it has seen some pretty good results. It's not meant to replace eating fruit and veg but "bridge the gap". I actually really like fruit and veg now, I wasn't a big veggie fan before but since taking this stuff I definitely eat much better and am more aware of what I eat. Anyway if you want more info just PM me.

My other personal tips would be to limit red meat to once a week, replace fries with rice, do a moderate amount of exercise (don't overdo it cos this is NOT the way to loose weight), drink lots of water and DON'T DIET as it really doesn't work and can do more harm than good. Of course by diet I mean it in the modern sense of "Eat less to loose weight." You will find most of these miracle weight loss people just switched their eating from branded processed convenience food to fresh fruit and veg, they didn't stop eating!

Whatever you try get your Doctors opinion first, they know you best, physically that is, and every body is different so something you try might actually be dangerous for you even if it worked for someone else.

Good luck!

[broadsword]

Over the past 3 months, I have been suffering from shin splints (from doing a lot of running). My calves are usually quite tight and I think this is where the problem stems from.

Anyone experienced shin splints before?

Yes I have, they're a real pain in the rectum.

try this:

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archiv...s-treatment.htm