[Archived] Relegation Watch 2009-10 Season

[Tom]

I think it would be silly not to include us in the potential third candidates, we have a shocking run in and can't buy a win at present in games that any team would be targeting a win.

[Hughesy]

I disagree - we are not getting goals at the moment and that wont last forever - 1 or 2 wins and we are safely in the top 10.

[Tom]

2-3 wins and the rest of the teams you mentioned are safely in the top half. Bolton occupy the third relegation spot 4 points behind us with three games in hand, then come West Ham who are 3 points behind with a superior goal difference.

We won't get many easier games than the one we had today and we couldn't win that, unless things change we will get dragged into it.

I agree that goals will come especially for Kalinic but we need that to be soon.

[Hughesy]

2 of Boltons next 4 league games are Arsenal (1 is part of the games in hand) - so im not too worried about them, like I said - hopefully a draw with Hull tomorrow.

As iv mentioned in other threads we could quite easily have an extra 13 points or so by now if we had taken our chances - it will come.......

[Paul]

I've moved past the angry stage now and am rapidly approaching the what will be will be mood. So I want to avoid ranting about the manager and his tactics. Things I notice generally and especially yesterday are these.

In his pre-match interview Allardyce emphasised our need to score goals, how Sunderland were missing six first choice players, that we needed to take advantage of their situation and he had set the team up accordingly with Roberts (3 goals this season) and McCarthy (scored Saturday) up front. Despite the brave words we still played an increasingly awful and utterly ineffective brand of hoof ball which created nothing in the first half. During the second, in response to going behind twice, we began to look more effective and actually played the ball on the ground and passed it around a little. I had the impression the players seemed to forget the manager's instructions and just played the game which comes naturally to them. I've seen at Bolton and home to Chelsea, to name just two, that this side is capable of some exciting play but it's my belief the side is now being shackled by the manager's determination to play percentage football. Continue in this vein and Allardyce is going to be responsible for taking us down. The team are playing to his instructions and are clearly uncomfortable with their roles.

Allardyce has pointed out the difference Bent has made to Sunderland with 13 or 14 goals. I can understand and sympathise with this view, though any 13 or 14 goals would make a big difference to Rovers this season. Who scores doesn't matter, it's the scoring that counts. For me the complete lack of support for our forward players has been obvious for weeks, many a time we have had 8, yes EIGHT, players in our half while attacking the opposing goal. How often does our lone striker have anyone to lay the ball off to? Contrast this yesterday with Bent who spent a lot of time up front on his own. Bent collected plenty of long balls out of defence, laid them off, usually to his left, and then set off at 100mph for our six yard box. How often have we seen this from Rovers? I can't think of once. If a team plays the long ball it has to be supported and the striker has to put himself about - in ths regard only Kalinic seems capable of playing the role.

On occassions when we slip into a 4-4-2 formation, more by accident than design, during a game we get the players forward and have numbers in and around the box. With 4-5-1 we appear incapable of doing this, the midfield seem completely unaware of their role to support the strikers. Watch the opposition n any game and count how many players they get forward, then compare this Rovers. To score we have to get bodies in the box, so often our strikers are totally isolated - Di Santo in the last 4-5 games has to lay the ball off to himself and then beat three defenders.

During the match yesterday three times in the second half I noticed MGP and Andrews stood on the halfway line while we attacked. For the life of me I cannot understand why our entire defence is in the opposition's penalty area leaving an attacking player and midfielder to defend. Our defence doesn't have a great goal scoring reputation and had Bent broken clear I doubt MGP and Andrews would have stopped him? I'd also raise the question about McCarthy's role. Generally said to be our most talented player and the most likely to score. How many times do we see him taking the corners, free kicks etc when he should be in the box looking for the half chance?

Watching MOTD with the good lady last night, she did come to Wigan, she remarked most players received the ball, passed and then ran forward looking for a return. She also observed players ran towards the opposition with the ball. The inevitable question being why don't Rovers do this?

Looking at Allardyce's record at Bolton one has to acknowledge the success of his football philosophy. Trouble is for whatever reason it does not work with our squad. To get out of our current mess we have to, in no particular order:

get the ball on the ground

stick with the same team

get the players to support each other

push bodies forward into the opposition box

retain the ball, stop all this hoof ball nonsense

For me part of the solution is to go with 4-4-2 playing Kalinic and Di Santo up front and Salgado in a central midfield role. Salgado appears to be the one player in the squad capable of making a pass. Yes he's slow but so was Tugay. I can't see anyone else capable of this ball playing role. I'd try this in the games against Villa, if we get slaughtered it won't matter, if it works we just might begin to find a solution to our problems.

Staying up is rapidly becoming a lottery. Looking at today's table from 12th downwards are threatened, should Stoke win the game in hand they will probably be OK leaving Rovers, Burnley, Wigan, West Ham, Pompey, Hull, Wolves and Bolton as the clubs battling against the drop. With games in hand Wigan and Bolton are in the stronger positions, though one game in hand is between them! We play four of the teams below us in the next seven games. We have to take 11 points or more from our next seven fixtures. The manager has to look very closely at his tactics, look at the periods when we have played well and ask himself if time is right for change.

I still believe, because of the fixtures we have to play, we can stay up and finish 16th or so BUT lose too many of the next seven and we could be dead by late February.

Allardyce is paid to manage - it's time to earn your corn Sam. You're probably one bad home performance, one defeat away from losing the general crowd support. If this happens it may be the last straw.

[jonv]

I've moved past the angry stage now and am rapidly approaching the what will be will be mood. So I want to avoid ranting about the manager and his tactics. Things I notice generally and especially yesterday are these.

In his pre-match interview Allardyce emphasised our need to score goals, how Sunderland were missing six first choice players, that we needed to take advantage of their situation and he had set the team up accordingly with Roberts (3 goals this season) and McCarthy (scored Saturday) up front. Despite the brave words we still played an increasingly awful and utterly ineffective brand of hoof ball which created nothing in the first half. During the second, in response to going behind twice, we began to look more effective and actually played the ball on the ground and passed it around a little. I had the impression the players seemed to forget the manager's instructions and just played the game which comes naturally to them. I've seen at Bolton and home to Chelsea, to name just two, that this side is capable of some exciting play but it's my belief the side is now being shackled by the manager's determination to play percentage football. Continue in this vein and Allardyce is going to be responsible for taking us down. The team are playing to his instructions and are clearly uncomfortable with their roles.

Allardyce has pointed out the difference Bent has made to Sunderland with 13 or 14 goals. I can understand and sympathise with this view, though any 13 or 14 goals would make a big difference to Rovers this season. Who scores doesn't matter, it's the scoring that counts. For me the complete lack of support for our forward players has been obvious for weeks, many a time we have had 8, yes EIGHT, players in our half while attacking the opposing goal. How often does our lone striker have anyone to lay the ball off to? Contrast this yesterday with Bent who spent a lot of time up front on his own. Bent collected plenty of long balls out of defence, laid them off, usually to his left, and then set off at 100mph for our six yard box. How often have we seen this from Rovers? I can't think of once. If a team plays the long ball it has to be supported and the striker has to put himself about - in ths regard only Kalinic seems capable of playing the role.

On occassions when we slip into a 4-4-2 formation, more by accident than design, during a game we get the players forward and have numbers in and around the box. With 4-5-1 we appear incapable of doing this, the midfield seem completely unaware of their role to support the strikers. Watch the opposition n any game and count how many players they get forward, then compare this Rovers. To score we have to get bodies in the box, so often our strikers are totally isolated - Di Santo in the last 4-5 games has to lay the ball off to himself and then beat three defenders.

During the match yesterday three times in the second half I noticed MGP and Andrews stood on the halfway line while we attacked. For the life of me I cannot understand why our entire defence is in the opposition's penalty area leaving an attacking player and midfielder to defend. Our defence doesn't have a great goal scoring reputation and had Bent broken clear I doubt MGP and Andrews would have stopped him? I'd also raise the question about McCarthy's role. Generally said to be our most talented player and the most likely to score. How many times do we see him taking the corners, free kicks etc when he should be in the box looking for the half chance?

Watching MOTD with the good lady last night, she did come to Wigan, she remarked most players received the ball, passed and then ran forward looking for a return. She also observed players ran towards the opposition with the ball. The inevitable question being why don't Rovers do this?

Looking at Allardyce's record at Bolton one has to acknowledge the success of his football philosophy. Trouble is for whatever reason it does not work with our squad. To get out of our current mess we have to, in no particular order:

get the ball on the ground

stick with the same team

get the players to support each other

push bodies forward into the opposition box

retain the ball, stop all this hoof ball nonsense

For me part of the solution is to go with 4-4-2 playing Kalinic and Di Santo up front and Salgado in a central midfield role. Salgado appears to be the one player in the squad capable of making a pass. Yes he's slow but so was Tugay. I can't see anyone else capable of this ball playing role. I'd try this in the games against Villa, if we get slaughtered it won't matter, if it works we just might begin to find a solution to our problems.

Staying up is rapidly becoming a lottery. Looking at today's table from 12th downwards are threatened, should Stoke win the game in hand they will probably be OK leaving Rovers, Burnley, Wigan, West Ham, Pompey, Hull, Wolves and Bolton as the clubs battling against the drop. With games in hand Wigan and Bolton are in the stronger positions, though one game in hand is between them! We play four of the teams below us in the next seven games. We have to take 11 points or more from our next seven fixtures. The manager has to look very closely at his tactics, look at the periods when we have played well and ask himself if time is right for change.

I still believe, because of the fixtures we have to play, we can stay up and finish 16th or so BUT lose too many of the next seven and we could be dead by late February.

Allardyce is paid to manage - it's time to earn your corn Sam. You're probably one bad home performance, one defeat away from losing the general crowd support. If this happens it may be the last straw.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but do you think by seasons end, what ever happens the club would actually rid of Big Sam? I wonder the contract we put him on to get him in the first place.

[Hughesy]

Allardyce is paid to manage - it's time to earn your corn Sam. You're probably one bad home performance, one defeat away from losing the general crowd support. If this happens it may be the last straw.

Is the general crowd you? Because not 1 fan who sits near me in N02 is against Sam - they are however unhappy with alot of the booing that comes from N01 of our own players - and also the inclusion of Roberts & Andrews.

People at Ewood have come to expect too much - if we dont win, they get booed - Its crazy!! 1 week we win and its all rosy, the next we draw and everyone wants to get a rope! Its pathetic!

People say we dont attack or create, yet yesterday we had 21 attempts on goal!

[Paul]

It's a difficult question. I don't want Allardyce to manage our club, I didn't want him before Ince was appointed but I recognise his was the sort of appointment we needed after Ince. I think the trustees have a big decision to make, give the manager money in January to ensure PL survival or risk Allardyce taking us down and all that entails. On balance I think Allardyce will be here next season and he'll get money to spend in January. It's not what I'd wish for but it's probably the best solution to Rovers problems. An Allardyce Out campaign is not going to help, but I see two have started on Facebook this weekend..

By the last straw I was suggesting if Allardyce loses the crowd I mean it could well contribute to our going down. The club need the support, if that is lost it will be a very be a grim few months at Ewood.

[philipl]

Paul makes a huge number of valid points.

Sam's mentality seems to be simply to avoid relegation this season whilst the board is looking for mid-table comfort.

The fans expect some decent entertainment along the way and that is really not happening.

I have a horrible feeling now we are going to get caught or very nearly caught at the end of this season. Things are clearly not right at Ewood under Sam and we are probably performing way below what we are capable of. I seriously wonder whether Sam has the right sort of self-reflective personality to work this one out- his public utterances consistently suggest not.

At the end of the day, most relegations are self-inflicted. On that basis we are distressingly vulnerable.

[CrazyIvan]

Paul makes a huge number of valid points.

Sam's mentality seems to be simply to avoid relegation this season whilst the board is looking for mid-table comfort.

The fans expect some decent entertainment along the way and that is really not happening.

I have a horrible feeling now we are going to get caught or very nearly caught at the end of this season. Things are clearly not right at Ewood under Sam and we are probably performing way below what we are capable of. I seriously wonder whether Sam has the right sort of self-reflective personality to work this one out- his public utterances consistently suggest not.

At the end of the day, most relegations are self-inflicted. On that basis we are distressingly vulnerable.

Good grief, you don't half talk some crap at times.

[philipl]

Good grief, you don't half talk some crap at times.

Inced

[Hughesy]

An Allardyce Out campaign is not going to help, but I see two have started on Facebook this weekend..

And there ladies and gentleman is the reason that Facebook is sh!te! Modern day keyboard warriors!! Get a grip, and get behind your team - Through thick & thin!

[CrazyIvan]

Inced

Huh?

[Paul]

Is the general crowd you? Because not 1 fan who sits near me in N02 is against Sam - they are however unhappy with alot of the booing that comes from N01 of our own players - and also the inclusion of Roberts & Andrews.

People at Ewood have come to expect too much - if we dont win, they get booed - Its crazy!! 1 week we win and its all rosy, the next we draw and everyone wants to get a rope! Its pathetic!

People say we dont attack or create, yet yesterday we had 21 attempts on goal!

Hughesy I've read most of what you have posted this morning and there is little point in commenting on it. You make some valid points but are incapable of understanding the seriousness of the situation Rovers are in. You say people expect too much and come up with every reason under the sun as to why we shouldn't expect to beat a certain team. The problem with this is simple - there are no teams you expect to beat. If we don't win games we will go down. Now I quite simply EXPECT us to beat Wigan, Hull and Bolton and draw with Fulham in our next four home games. Nothing else is going to be good enough and if you really believe we can settle for less I'd like to know when you expect to us to pick up the 20 points we need as the minimum to stay up. If we can't beat Wigan, Hull and Bolton at home I want you to tell us all just which teams can we expect to beat - Peterborough?

I'm asking because of the following 11 games we play 7 against teams we should NOT expect to beat using your criteria. That leaves 4 games were we are allowed to consider beating the opposition.

[RevidgeBlue]

I disagree - we are not getting goals at the moment and that wont last forever - 1 or 2 wins and we are safely in the top 10.

Why can that not last forever? If our general standard of play remains so poor it will!

The one thing that cannot carry on imo is that we will draw every game.

Sooner or later we will either start scoring a few and win a few games or remain unable to score and concede a few leading to a losing run.

My prediction at the start of the season was 17th. I'd take that now, it's perm any 3 from 8 or nine for the drop.

I think it's looking least promising for the Dingles, they haven't really got the squad and could be this season's Hull.

Thereafter it's anyone's guess

[JAL]

Paul makes a huge number of valid points.

Sam's mentality seems to be simply to avoid relegation this season whilst the board is looking for mid-table comfort.

The fans expect some decent entertainment along the way and that is really not happening.

I have a horrible feeling now we are going to get caught or very nearly caught at the end of this season. Things are clearly not right at Ewood under Sam and we are probably performing way below what we are capable of. I seriously wonder whether Sam has the right sort of self-reflective personality to work this one out- his public utterances consistently suggest not.

At the end of the day, most relegations are self-inflicted. On that basis we are distressingly vulnerable.

Excellent post philipl, along with Paul and many others. Just dont know were crazyivan is coming from, but for the forty year old plussers there are growing concerns about big Sams effective way of playing football.

The joke in the pub after the game was, big Sam sits in the stand so that hes at eye level with the ball.

[AggyBlue]

Get a grip, and get behind your team - Through thick & thin!

That's something that's lost on the modern day supporter.

[Eddie]

Entertain your supporters who pay your wages...

That seems to be something the club has forgotten.

[AggyBlue]

Entertain your supporters who pay your wages...

Like you?

[Hughesy]

Entertain your supporters who pay your wages...

That seems to be something the club has forgotten.

Ah if its purely about entertainment then look no further than Leeds, Newcastle & West Brom.....then look where that gets you.

For me - il stick with Premiership football - not pretty boy football where you still get rolled over, and then also get relegated!

[S15]

God honest truth the promotion season in 2001 was one of my favourite ever, and if relegation could guarantee another like that I'd take it every time as opposed to sticking in the stale/uncompetitive league we're in now.

It's not as simple as that though.

[roversWASmylife]

Entertain your supporters who pay your wages...

That seems to be something the club has forgotten.

You tell them! I very much doubt that some footballers give one about the fans.

Bolton are playing Hull tonight huge game. Either team won't move up the league massively but will give either team a lot of confidence.

Saying that, Burnley have got Stoke at Turf soon.

Hull, Pompey and Wolves are my favourites to go down.

[RevidgeBlue]

Ah if its purely about entertainment then look no further than Leeds, Newcastle & West Brom.....then look where that gets you.

For me - il stick with Premiership football - not pretty boy football where you still get rolled over, and then also get relegated!

Yep we'd never do that we've perfected a unique brand of ugly roll over football which sees us rolled over 4-0 at Anfield 5-0 at Chelsea and 6-2 at Arsenal!

Hughesey how can you be so certain we're not going down, if we were seven or eight points clear of the drop zone I could understand your unstinting optimism but we're essentially one bad result away from the drop zone!

[Hughesy]

Its a massive game for BOTH clubs, especially Hull.

Hulls next 4 games - Bolton (A) - Chelsea (H) - Spurs (A) - United (H)

Boltons next 4 games - Hull (H) - Arsenal (A) - Sunderland (A) - Arsenal (H)

[RevidgeBlue]

God honest truth the promotion season in 2001 was one of my favourite ever, and if relegation could guarantee another like that I'd take it every time as opposed to sticking in the stale/uncompetitive league we're in now.

It's not as simple as that though.

If were were to go down the cry would no doubt be that we can't expect to compete with "bigger" clubs like Derby, Forest Leeds etc and we'd probably be struggling at the wrong end of that division as well should the unthinkable happen.

We simply can not afford to go down whatever way you look at it.