[Archived] Nikola Kalinic

[ada2020]

That would be an interesting stat, Benjani's time to goals scored.

From his wiki:

2010– Blackburn Rovers Apps 15 Goals (3)

[Gav]

I’m astounded to read that people think that RSC was over rated in his first term with the club, did you see him live, watch his touch, his ability to hold the ball up, his movement, and ability to score goals?

The mind boggles on that one.

[imy9]

So in one post you've said that it was obvious Bayern didn't really rate him, and the next post you're saying Bayern must have rated him because they played him 20-25 games per season? That's a massive contradiction surely? Make your mind up..

Bayern rated him to an extent, they obviously thought he had the talent (and he does possess talent IMO but can't apply himself consistently at the top level) so he got plenty of games. They didn't rate him that much or else he wouldn't have been an unused substitute in the 2001 Champions' League final. He didn't play a single game in that European campaign - just like David May never played a minute in United's 1999 Champions' League campaign.

However they obviously thought he was worth keeping on their books and giving him a run in the side sometimes/having as a substitute to bring on. In that respect he got plenty of chances but never really impressed.

But in the end they sold him for £3.3 million. You can't compare the sales of Bentley and RSC. Arsenal were selling a young player who never really got a run in the first team, who was playing in a position where they had enough talent, who had the potential to be very good but who had an attitude that Wenger didn't like. RSC had enough runs in the first team at Bayern but disappointed every time, and they sold him at a prime age, an age when most strikers can command their highest transfer fees. You say that Bayern thought "when fit he would come good" - but he was there for EIGHT SEASONS. Most of those seasons he was fit, but he still never came good. I think Bayern were happy to take a decent fee for a striker who'd been largely a disappointment, otherwise they would never have sold him.

How many goals has Roque scored this season? And how many assists? Zero and zero, is the answer.

To put things into further context, since the start of 2008/09 Roque has played 47 times in the league (probably around half of them he started) and contributed 7 goals and 2 assists. In 16 league games alone this season Kalinic has scored 5 goals and 2 assists. Yes I'm leaving out Kalinic's first season but he started that season aged 21 and it was his first season from Croatia - hardly a fair comparison I'm sure you'll agree.

On form alone, Niko is the obvious choice. The fact that RSC's supposed "pedigree" is hugely overstated by people on here is just another factor in the argument.

I've often been reasonably impressed by Benjani given the amount of stick he's got. If Kean started playing a front two of Benjani and Niko I think it could work reasonably well.

Obviously my sarcasm was lost in the first post, ah well.

Roque contributed a lot to Bayern despite an apparent lack of goals, that was my question you failed to answer, why play someone who is a 'failure' answer? He contributes more to his teams aside from goals, talking of context virtually every season Roque has been unfit, the one season he was fit he scored lots of goals, more goals than Kalinic will ever score in the pl IMO.

Finally Sam dropped Kalinic as has Kean, both started RSC consistently when he was fit, on that note we can agree to disagree on this.

[tony gale's mic]

I’m astounded to read that people think that RSC was over rated in his first term with the club, did you see him live, watch his touch, his ability to hold the ball up, his movement, and ability to score goals?

The mind boggles on that one.

No one's saying he was overrated then. He was on a roll and everything came together. People are saying he's overrated now.

And he's got some great raw attributes, but apart from that one season he's shown time and time again throughout his career he can't translate those into being an effective striker.

[Amo]

I’m astounded to read that people think that RSC was over rated in his first term with the club, did you see him live, watch his touch, his ability to hold the ball up, his movement, and ability to score goals?

The mind boggles on that one.

But how long is he gonna live off that one season?

[Tom]

From his wiki:

2010– Blackburn Rovers Apps 15 Goals (3)

Most of those 15 will be from the bench I imagine though, I bet there isn't much in between Niko and Benjani goals / assists per minute.

[tony gale's mic]

Obviously my sarcasm was lost in the first post, ah well.

Roque contributed a lot to Bayern despite an apparent lack of goals, that was my question you failed to answer, why play someone who is a 'failure' answer? He contributes more to his teams aside from goals, talking of context virtually every season Roque has been unfit, the one season he was fit he scored lots of goals, more goals than Kalinic will ever score in the pl IMO.

Finally Sam dropped Kalinic as has Kean, both started RSC consistently when he was fit, on that note we can agree to disagree on this.

If Roque contributed that much to Bayern, there's no way they would have sold him for just over £3 million.

He was a useful player for Bayern, but nothing more. You can't even cite fitness as a reason why Bayern sold him - he might have had injury problems in the past but the season before he was sold he played 35 games. If he was that good in those 35 games, Bayern would have sold him for north of £10 million. Bayern's valuation of him is the best indicator for how good he was for them - decent but nothing too special.

Since coming to Rovers he was a great goalscorer for one season, but again nothing more. 10 assists in 4 seasons and 100 appearances doesn't suggest he's much of a creator either.

One flash in the pan season, and nothing else. Niko might not score as many in one season, but IMO could potentially be a 10-15 goal a season man, which would make him a better striker than Roque, who's largely been a 5 goal a season man.

[Gav]

No one's saying he was overrated then. He was on a roll and everything came together. People are saying he's overrated now.

And he's got some great raw attributes, but apart from that one season he's shown time and time again throughout his career he can't translate those into being an effective striker.

Well I can see what you’re saying, the stats prove he’s not prolific anywhere else he’s been, but for me I’d have him in over Kalinic all week, I just don’t think Kalinic is premiership quality.

Its all about opinions though, and the managers is the one that counts in the end.

[booth]

If you are going to quote me, then at least remember to put the full sentence in, otherwise you are just trying to make cheap points. Something I see you accused someone else of today.

I said Bellamy supported Shearer from wide-right. Wide-right is not a centre-forward position.

I think if Kalinic had been bought for £250k, no-one would be bothered about him not making the bench.

Adding the rest of the quote was unnecessary whether he was wide right, wide left or playing just behind him, he was still supported by a quality forward player. No cheap point was intended. We all know how good Bellamy is. It was the same with the above point that Shearer played as the lone striker with Sheringham just behind him in Euro 96.

If Kalinic hasn't scored the most goals this season, no-one would be bothered about him not making the bench, but he has. They may not be many but as none of the other strikers are performing it seems a bit rich that the guy can't even make the bench.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I’m astounded to read that people think that RSC was over rated in his first term with the club, did you see him live, watch his touch, his ability to hold the ball up, his movement, and ability to score goals?

The mind boggles on that one.

The rare season when he wasn't plagued by injuries and was able to carry some form. He also had world class balls delivered into the box from Bentley, without him I don't think Roque who have scored anywhere near as many goals as he did first season. Look at how Roque played in his second season minus Bentley...

Looking at him it now it looks like another couple of seasons of injuries have taken their toll, he's lost a yard of pace if not more.

There's nothing wrong with remembering the good performances he put in but people need to be realistic, he's not the same player. He's not the only player who people refuse to accept how far he has fallen because of what he did in the past Pedersen is another good example.

Back to the subject of Niko I am not going to 'flog a dead horse' any longer. I and many other fans think he should be part of the squad but Kean and other fans don't. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[ada2020]

Most of those 15 will be from the bench I imagine though, I bet there isn't much in between Niko and Benjani goals / assists per minute.

I agree TCO, to my knowledge he's only started once and that was against Liverpool.

[Hughesy]

From his wiki:

2010 Blackburn Rovers Apps 15 Goals (3)

Here you go......

Benjani - (ALL comps)

Played in 17 games - 6 starts, 11 sub appearances - total time = 693 minutes/ 3 goals (ave 231 mins a goal)

5 of his sub appearance have been less than 15 mins

Kalinic - (ALL Comps)

Played in 18 games, 15 starts, 3 sub appearances - total time = 1053 minutes/ 6 goals (ave 175.5 mins a goal)

1 sub appearance less than 15 mins

Banjani starts - Chelsea, Wigan x 2, Liverpool & also Villa/ QPR in cups

[tony gale's mic]

To be fair, Benjani's record is still 1 every 2 and a half full games.

Both are better than our current preferred pair.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Another way of looking at it would be that he is playing with injuries to help the team- when fit he is our best striker.

TGM- firstly he spent 8 seasons at Bayern- obvious that no one rated him there. When we got him for 3.3 million that was with a clause that they would get 20% when we sold him I believe that would mean Bayern sold him for 7 million, a sizeable fee.

Kalinic on an upward curve? Take out two goals vs West Brom who have the record for longest time in top flight without a clean sheet and a goal keeper dropping the ball at Niko's feet at Everton and what are you left with? A player who has scored very few goals in the pl vs any decent teams.

I would play Kalinic up front with another striker but not as a lone front man, should be on the bench IMO

Man city today would get a bigger fee for Roque than we would for Kalinic.

We can't play two up front, our weakness in midfield would be crippling.

[Baz]

Adding the rest of the quote was unnecessary whether he was wide right, wide left or playing just behind him, he was still supported by a quality forward player. No cheap point was intended.

Your point was "And Shearer playing the lone frontman at Newcastle with Craig Bellamy? There's a huge contradiction somewhere there, I don't think I need to point it out."

By deliberately mis-quoting me it was a cheap point, as the next part of my sentence was that Bellamy was playing wide right - to which your post would not have made sense. I dont want to clog this thread by bickering with you further.

I understand your view and points, but totally disagree with you.

In time we will see the truth, but I think in the end, you will agree with me.

[rebelmswar]

We can't play two up front, our weakness in midfield would be crippling.

I honestly think the Jones' could pull it off.

[booth]

Your point was "And Shearer playing the lone frontman at Newcastle with Craig Bellamy? There's a huge contradiction somewhere there, I don't think I need to point it out."

By deliberately mis-quoting me it was a cheap point, as the next part of my sentence was that Bellamy was playing

wide right - to which your post would not have made sense.

You're being very touchy. Take a chill pill you're reading things into it that aren't there.

Shearer as lone striker with Bellamy wide right is not the same as Shearer playing as lone striker with no service. That's all I meant. Same as shearer with Sheringham just behind him. Completely different to how Niko was played as a lone striker in his first season in English football.

There's no way either of us can be proved right or wrong because I believe Niko will be sold, and unless we are hit by injuries, we probably won't see him again. Especially as Rochina is looking good.

[den]

Shearer as lone striker with Bellamy wide right is not the same as Shearer playing as lone striker with no service.

Bellamy was wide right, as a winger, or right midfielder if you want. Of course Shearer was a lone striker in that formation at Newcastle.

[vintageadidas]

I will end this debate now:

Kalinic - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Roberts - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Benjani - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Santa Cruz - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Diouf - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Obviously i could go deeper into individual pros and cons and the typical if my aunte had balls she would be my uncle debate but the above sums it up perfectly!

New and hungry strikers needed please.

[den]

I will end this debate now:

Thanks and I agree.

[jim mk2]

I will end this debate now:

Kalinic - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Roberts - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Benjani - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Santa Cruz - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

Diouf - Not good enough (one of the reasons we are in a relegation battle)

.

Change of manager - the only reason we are in a relegation battle.#

Here endeth the debate.

With regards to Kalinic for all his faults the lad has an eye for goal unlike our other "strikers" and should be given a run in the side to the end of the season.

These are desperate times and we need to score goals - somehow.

[BangkokRover]

Change of manager - the only reason we are in a relegation battle.#

Here endeth the debate.

With regards to Kalinic for all his faults the lad has an eye for goal unlike our other "strikers" and should be given a run in the side to the end of the season.

These are desperate times and we need to score goals - somehow.

As always direct to the point Jim, I 100% put the blame at Venkey's for this mess.

[vintageadidas]

Change of manager - the only reason we are in a relegation battle.

True to an extent but the lack of goals was always a worry for Big Sam too!

Here endeth the debate.

With regards to Kalinic for all his faults the lad has an eye for goal unlike our other "strikers" and should be given a run in the side to the end of the season.

What is your proof for this argument? Is it the jaw dropping 7 goals he has scored or the amount of times he has missed an opportunity or hit the woodwork?

These are desperate times and we need to score goals - somehow.

[bluebruce]

Here you go......

Benjani - (ALL comps)

Played in 17 games - 6 starts, 11 sub appearances - total time = 693 minutes/ 3 goals (ave 231 mins a goal)

5 of his sub appearance have been less than 15 mins

Kalinic - (ALL Comps)

Played in 18 games, 15 starts, 3 sub appearances - total time = 1053 minutes/ 6 goals (ave 175.5 mins a goal)

1 sub appearance less than 15 mins

Banjani starts - Chelsea, Wigan x 2, Liverpool & also Villa/ QPR in cups

The truly confusing thing for me is the minutes to goals ratio Niko has had SINCE Kean took over. Unless I've made an error when looking it up, Niko has had, under Kean: four starts (two of which he was brought off, on 46 mins and 64 mins), and two substitute appearances (on 11 mins and 63 mins). And scored four goals.

Not taking injury time into consideration, that means he has had 396 mins of football and scored four goals. So a goal every 99 minutes. Yes yes, I know his overall season ratio is less impressive, and his overall Rovers career ratio less still. It's not the point I'm making- the point I'm making is he has been in goalscoring form for the new manager, and yet somehow can't even make the bench now? It boggles the mind, especially when you consider he's been scoring for Croatia in the meantime (what is it, 3 goals in the last 2 games for them?), and that our 'main man' has yet to notch for us since rejoining in Jan.

[booth]

Bellamy was wide right, as a winger, or right midfielder if you want. Of course Shearer was a lone striker in that formation at Newcastle.

Well done, now go and read the post that I wrote/you quoted.

And Blue Bruce, one of the frustrating things is that under Kean he does seem to be a better player - in the times he's been given a place in the team (apart from last years cup performances where he shined).