[Archived] Nikola Kalinic

[den]

Cole managed 25 appearances between 2001-2006, I'd hardly call that regular football. Even when he got more regular football at Charlton and Villa he showed little sign of improvements, it's only since Zola has taken over at West Ham that's he's become a good Premier League striker.

I can't offer you any Rovers related examples, but I don't see why that matters. Players should develop with us as they would anywhere, we've probably only had a handful of 21 year old strikers in my lifetime so it's not really fair to expect me to pull an example out of them.

Kalinic has been playing regular football since he was 18, scoring 1 goal every 2 games in the same league that Eduardo and Krancjar came from, and they're not doing bad. It's not like he's taking his first steps into professional football, the lad even has international experience.

re: Lennon. You used to argue that he never had an end product and that he was too old to improve it, most people disagreed. He has managed to improve that side of his game massively (2 goals and 3 assists so far) hence his England recall. I'm just not sure why you think players don't improve much from 21/22 onwards...I know this tends to be the case at Rovers (but then a phrase involving 'polishing' and 'turds' comes to mind), but it certainly isn't elsewhere.

We have had hundreds of young strikers in my lifetime, and pretty much without exception [there might be one or two somewhere] if they haven't made it by the age of 21/22ish, they don't make it at all.

I don't think you're really getting what I'm trying to say here. I don't say players don't improve at all after that age. Strikers have a natural talent that is there at an early age. Midfielders have much more to learn as do defenders, hence they tend to develop later.

[mellison24]

Den - you are talking about strikers because you know there are very few examples of improvement at that age. Doesn't mean that it can't happen!! I'll bet when Kalinic starts playing more regularly (after DiSanto has gne back to Chelski) he'll show you what he's really like as a striker. Atmo, he can't be seen as a world beater, but he has time on his side! In the same way Van Heerden has time on his side yet. I have seen more in Kalinic already than I did with Derbs or Gally to suggest that he is a more complete striker than either of them. He just needs to build up some strength and he'll be reet!!

[waggy]

stop beating about the bush,nicola is crap and another grabbi,lardarse has made a huge mistake

[gumboots]

I read that Owen Coyle wasn't even at the behind closed doors friendly....so that would be a pretty weird.

Maybe he's been watchin youtube

I didn't say he was there, but if he wasn't there he definitely saw it somehow because that one came straight from the horses mouth so to speak!

[AggyBlue]

Strikers have a natural talent that is there at an early age.

Take a look at his record of games to goals at club and international level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Kalini%C4%87

He must have natural talent to achieve that and the dates show it's presence from a very young age.

[den]

Den - you are talking about strikers because you know there are very few examples of improvement at that age. Doesn't mean that it can't happen!! I'll bet when Kalinic starts playing more regularly (after DiSanto has gne back to Chelski) he'll show you what he's really like as a striker. Atmo, he can't be seen as a world beater, but he has time on his side! In the same way Van Heerden has time on his side yet. I have seen more in Kalinic already than I did with Derbs or Gally to suggest that he is a more complete striker than either of them. He just needs to build up some strength and he'll be reet!!

Exactly Mellison. I haven't written Kalanic off, because I haven't seen him. I'm replying to those who think that he's still a kid. In football terms he isn't. What I'm saying isn't exactly rocket science either. The academy move players on usually around the age of 20 or earlier. Why - because if they haven't made the level by then, they are highly unlikely to. There will always be exceptions, but how many have we released, that have gone on to make it at the level that the club was at when they released them?

Still no-one can name me a striker that has made the first team at Ewood, after they turn 21/22.

[RibbleValleyRover]

stop beating about the bush,nicola is crap and another grabbi,lardarse has made a huge mistake

Far too early to judge, if at the end of the season he hasn't made it then you may have a point. He wouldn't be the first player who has needed time to settle in a new league and cope with the various off the field cultural issues as well, its not just football they have to adapt to! There have been plenty of players who have had an unsettled or poor first season but the following season started to show their worth.

I understand the concern because we have spent a lot of money on this lad as we don't have much money but give him some time.

[den]

Take a look at his record of games to goals at club and international level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Kalini%C4%87

He must have natural talent to achieve that and the dates show it's presence from a very young age.

My post after this should make it a bit clearer Aggy.

BTW, you said this about Kaanic. I know that last time out you saw an improvement, but didn't you reckon he wasn't showing enough?

I'm not writing him off Aggy, but he should be able to show us something by now.

[bubblerrovers]

I hope he does come good but he has shown nothing at all too say he will become a hit, people suggesting he has are clutching at straws, grabbi made a bigger impression early days and we all know what happened there. For every one player who joins a club and takes a season to settle to show there true class, there are 10 that end up being rubbish.

[AggyBlue]

My post after this should make it a bit clearer Aggy.

BTW, you said this about Kaanic. I know that last time out you saw an improvement, but didn't you reckon he wasn't showing enough?

I'm not writing him off Aggy, but he should be able to show us something by now.

I've probably seen him more than most on here and he hasn't shown enough yet IMO but he's not an unproven kid coming up through the ranks that looks like he isn't going to make it.

This guy has done it and has a very good goals per game ratio at a top club in the Croatian league and international level.

Like you, I'm not prepared to write him off yet. He might take twelve months to settle in and reach his full potential but no one was to know that before we signed him.

[LeftWinger]

I wouldn't be surprised if we featured a 4-4-2 formation against Burnley with Kalinic starting up front.

I'd be very suprised if he did that. Our best player at the moment is Dunn playing behind the striker. To play him any other way at the moment would be madness.

[joey_big_nose]

Exactly Mellison. I haven't written Kalanic off, because I haven't seen him. I'm replying to those who think that he's still a kid. In football terms he isn't. What I'm saying isn't exactly rocket science either. The academy move players on usually around the age of 20 or earlier. Why - because if they haven't made the level by then, they are highly unlikely to. There will always be exceptions, but how many have we released, that have gone on to make it at the level that the club was at when they released them?

Still no-one can name me a striker that has made the first team at Ewood, after they turn 21/22.

I think the key thing you are missing here is that he has come along from the Croatian league. He has not been playing in a top environment, he has not been playing with top facilities. This is more important than his age. He needs to be bedded in to make the step up.

Not sure what is strange or unusual about that. We have had a few who have made the immediate step up when coming from a worse league - Nelsen, Mokoena, Samba and now NZonzi. All of them are incredibly physically tough guys who were not challenged on this side of the game. This is the area where Kalinic (and Van Heerden) need to make up ground. Same deal with Modric at Spurs or Obi Mikel at Chelsea. They needed a bit of time.

They may still bomb, I don't deny that, but there is no point rushing them in when they are at a physical disadvantage.

[den]

I think the key thing you are missing here is that he has come along from the Croatian league. He has not been playing in a top environment, he has not been playing with top facilities. This is more important than his age. He needs to be bedded in to make the step up.

I'm not missing anything JBN. The reason why the academy make a judgement on the lads around his age, is that they are physically developed at the age of 21/22. They certainly get stronger for years after that age, but they should be physically up to the job by then.

[LeChuck]

I'm not missing anything JBN. The reason why the academy make a judgement on the lads around his age, is that they are physically developed at the age of 21/22. They certainly get stronger for years after that age, but they should be physically up to the job by then.

...but players coming through the academies on this country are prepared for the physical nature of the Premier League. Kalinic won't have had this in his development so far and is therefore playing catch-up. At 6'1 1/2 he's got a good frame to build on so I'm pretty confident he'll be fine eventually.

[tonygreenbank]

I've probably seen him more than most on here and he hasn't shown enough yet IMO but he's not an unproven kid coming up through the ranks that looks like he isn't going to make it.

This guy has done it and has a very good goals per game ratio at a top club in the Croatian league and international level.

Like you, I'm not prepared to write him off yet. He might take twelve months to settle in and reach his full potential but no one was to know that before we signed him.

I am always very positive when it comes to Roversplayers but even I am becoming a little worried by his development. I think to spend £6m on a player who may not be ready for a few months is slightly mistifying. I am pretty sure that John Williams would have sought assurances before the money was released that we were getting a top European striker who could be a starter for the side but he is not even getting cameo appearances now. I would love him to do well and will just have to wait for the Peterborough tie when he can score a hattrick to ram down the throat of that oaf Adrian Durham.

[joey_big_nose]

...but players coming through the academies on this country are prepared for the physical nature of the Premier League. Kalinic won't have had this in his development so far and is therefore playing catch-up. At 6'1 1/2 he's got a good frame to build on so I'm pretty confident he'll be fine eventually.

Exactamundo. Kalinic's physcial development will not have had the same attention lavished on it as it would have if he was at Rovers from 18 or even if he arrived a year ago. We are playing catchup with a player who is naturally slight.

It's a valid point. He does need to significant appearences in the next four or five games though.

I am always very positive when it comes to Roversplayers but even I am becoming a little worried by his development. I think to spend £6m on a player who may not be ready for a few months is slightly mistifying. I am pretty sure that John Williams would have sought assurances before the money was released that we were getting a top European striker who could be a starter for the side but he is not even getting cameo appearances now. I would love him to do well and will just have to wait for the Peterborough tie when he can score a hattrick to ram down the throat of that oaf Adrian Durham.

Point is though what "top European striker" can you buy for £6m? I'm not sure you can even get an average striker for that!

The only team that have bought for that sort of money and I am jealous of them is Wigan with Rodellega who is a beast and looks quality. No physical readjustment required for him at all. The market is bloody mental at the moment and we had compartively little to spend.

Kalinic is a gamble, we had no choice, but a decent one.

[ed_jones]

i remember when souness came in he took pedersen out of the frame for a month or two as he said he has the ability but was too lightweight for the league at the time. i trust this is what the coaches are doing with nika and hopefully he will be a star

[bellamy11]

The only team that have bought for that sort of money and I am jealous of them is Wigan with Rodellega who is a beast and looks quality. No physical readjustment required for him at all. The market is bloody mental at the moment and we had compartively little to spend.

Agreed - and even then it took him a long, long time to get his first goal.

[Nafe_rovers]

he's not great on the new Fifa!

[mellison24]

Agreed - and even then it took him a long, long time to get his first goal.

Yeh, his first game of the season against Villa.....

[den]

i remember when souness came in he took pedersen out of the frame for a month or two as he said he has the ability but was too lightweight for the league at the time. i trust this is what the coaches are doing with nika and hopefully he will be a star

Yep and he's still lightweight.

To be fair, your comment deserved a better reply than the flippant one you just got. Yes, players can work on their body strength at any time. Once they get to the age of 22ish though, they should be strong enough.

[bellamy11]

Yeh, his first game of the season against Villa.....

Erm, he played for Wigan last season. He scored his first goal in his 12th game for them.

[mellison24]

Erm, he played for Wigan last season. He scored his first goal in his 12th game for them.

*facepalm* my apologies. Had a brainfart moment there.

[DP]

Yep and he's still lightweight.

To be fair, your comment deserved a better reply than the flippant one you just got. Yes, players can work on their body strength at any time. Once they get to the age of 22ish though, they should be strong enough.

Matt Jansen

21 when he signed, too lightweight, poor positional sense, clear potential. A debut goal overshadowed what was a very poor debut season. That was in 1999 and it wasn't until the start of the 2000/01 season that he became a regular first teamer under Souey.

[47er]

Matt Jansen

21 when he signed, too lightweight, poor positional sense, clear potential. A debut goal overshadowed what was a very poor debut season. That was in 1999 and it wasn't until the start of the 2000/01 season that he became a regular first teamer under Souey.

So basically then we spent the summer in an urgent search for a young striker we intended to bring through in a couple of years?