[Archived] Nikola Kalinic

[mellison24]

So basically then we spent the summer in an urgent search for a young striker we intended to bring through in a couple of years?

Bang on the money!!!

[Hughesy]

Just give the lad time. He was injured when we signed him and has played much since.

Id expect to see him within the next few games at some point. 1 goal and he will be off.

[joey_big_nose]

So basically then we spent the summer in an urgent search for a young striker we intended to bring through in a couple of years?

I don't think it is as long as that. But the decision was clearly that he would take time to come through (three or four months) but in the mean time we had Di Santo, Roberts and McCarthy. We couldn't go out and buy someone who was up to speed and quality because they are too expensive.

It will pay off if when he does arrive he is significantly better than other experienced strikers we could have bought for £6m. Probably the likes of Kamara, Nugent, um (struggling to think of experienced Prem strikers we could have got for that money...). The reason we got him cheap is because he needed time to adjust.

Same deal as getting Cruz cheap because he had a horrific injury record (and very poor goal scoring record), or getting Bellamy cheap because he was a bloody liability. We are always taking gambles.

[47er]

I don't think it is as long as that. But the decision was clearly that he would take time to come through (three or four months) but in the mean time we had Di Santo, Roberts and McCarthy. We couldn't go out and buy someone who was up to speed and quality because they are too expensive.

It will pay off if when he does arrive he is significantly better than other experienced strikers we could have bought for £6m. Probably the likes of Kamara, Nugent, um (struggling to think of experienced Prem strikers we could have got for that money...). The reason we got him cheap is because he needed time to adjust.

Same deal as getting Cruz cheap because he had a horrific injury record (and very poor goal scoring record), or getting Bellamy cheap because he was a bloody liability. We are always taking gambles.

We would have got Nugent for a lot less than 6M in Portsmouth's fire sale. As it is they are paying half his wages. He's up and running ---no settle-in period with him.

[LeChuck]

We would have got Nugent for a lot less than 6M in Portsmouth's fire sale. As it is they are paying half his wages. He's up and running ---no settle-in period with him.

He's not really the sort of striker we were after though, if we couldn't find room for Derbyshire in our team then I'm not sure Nugent would have played either. I think he played mainly on the right wing for Pompey.

I don't think Nugent's scored since his début has he? I think I'd rather have Hoilett in the squad as the support striker/winger type.

[47er]

He's not really the sort of striker we were after though, if we couldn't find room for Derbyshire in our team then I'm not sure Nugent would have played either. I think he played mainly on the right wing for Pompey.

I don't think Nugent's scored since his début has he? I think I'd rather have Hoilett in the squad as the support striker/winger type.

Worth remembering he scored 2 on his debut and he only came on as a sub! He did make one last week against Brum

Its because Portsmouth played him as a winger that he didn't perform for them. Lastly (and we've had this debate before on the Board) he is different class to Derbyshire.

[joey_big_nose]

Okay. Lets play a game. What Premiership strikers do we reckon we could have bought in the summer for 6 mill or less?

Nugent (4ish probably)

Bobby Zamora (Fulham would have gone for the full 6 I think in the current market)

Marlon Harewood (3m?)

Chopra (4m? Although it is hard to say he is "premiership proven")

Ginger bloke, former reading, at Stoke (4m?)

Kevin Doyle (apparently Wolves paid 6.5m.....!)

I am really strugling in this area....anyone got more?

Obviously if we could have unearthed a Santa Cruz that would have been better, but in the context of things I think taking a punt on someone like Kalinic is wise. We already have a couple of plodders like the list above (Roberts and McCarthy), we need something special and the only way we are going to do that is if we move out of our comfort zone.

It might all backfire horribly, and I will be the first to criticise Allardyce if it does, but I see the logic in thinking outside the box. It's Sam's job to get these things right.

[LeChuck]

I am really strugling in this area....anyone got more?

Frazier Campbell went for £6 million...and has one goal in nine games - a penalty in the League Cup. Other names mentioned were Steven Fletcher (scored his first PL goal at the weekend) and Piquionne (yet to score). Both not PL players but discussed on here at least.

[OscarRaven]

It's all a rouse. Sam knows this season isn't going to be a barrell of laughs for us, but he also knows thare are two games we must win and two games that he will get mega Kudos from winning.

So the ploy, make out Kalinic isn't ready, play 4-5-1 for 7 or 8 games with middling players, keeping back you best for mid October...

Then unleash a 4-4-2 onslaught on a toatally mis-prepared dingle team with the secret weapon's, Kalinic & Di Santo, bang in 6 goals and all of sudden your an unsackable hero...

[Blueandwhitemike]

In my opinion it is unfair to judge him at the moment. If I remember right, he was in disagreement with his club and I think Sam said this was one o the reasons we got him 'cheap', it might also be the reason he didn't play against us in that pre season game, and why he didn't play much (any?) part in their pre season. So if he didn't get much pre season then he would have a lot of catching up to do, which presumably he has been doing. He isn't 100% fit yet either, he withdrew from the Croatia U-21 team to stay at Rovers and do some 'special' fitness training, he did this because Sam told him to http://www.worldcup2010southafrica.org.uk/2010-world-cup-news/kalinic-admits-hes-not-ready-for-croatian-duty/

We don't know if he will come good or not yet, and just have to hope that Sam has made the right call, but he does have a lot more information than any of us having seen a lot more of him.

Of course it is a little worrying, but he has a good record in Croatia, better than Adebayor's 18 goals in 79 appearances for Monaco, when he joined Arse at 22, Drogba 12 in 64 at Le mans before joining Guingamp at 24, C. Cole has already been mentioned, how old was K.Davies when he became 'good'? (*stats from wiki)

There are examples of players being older and younger, but he is still 21, got a good scoring record, needs to bulk up a bit and get used to style of football. Plenty of reasons to give him more time.

[herbergeehh]

What's worrying? I don't see a single reason why we should be worried. We play with just the one striker at the moment, and Di Santo has done really well the last two games. Just a few weeks ago, Big Sam basically told everyone to relax, because he will bide his time with Kalinic, Hoilett, van Heerden etc... Benni and Hoilett were chosen before Kalinic at Arsenal, but he will get his chances - and it's not like Kalinic himself has gotten the chance and failed miserably. Done ok in the cup games, looked sharp at times when he's come on in the league. Not a Santa Cruz debut, or a Bellamy debut, but these were a lot more experienced when they arrived.

I think the most important thing is: He's only 22!! We will not lose money until we sell him / give him away. Sam will give him time, we are not in desperate need of a striker RIGHT NOW (with Benni, Hoilett, Roberts aswell as Di Santo) and he will build himself up slowly. This player will most likely be a great asset for us, in my opinion.

[LeftWinger]

I think the most important thing is: He's only 22!!

Agree with everything you say - except he's still only 21 - so he's even more time on his side.

[CrazyIvan]

Anybody thinking a player brought in from abroad should be able to go straight in to the first team and produce obviously doesn't know how much training goes in to playing in this league. Have a read of this...

[LeChuck]

Sounds like he's got a great attitude there. A lot of players might find it hard going from being a team's star player to being told he's not ready to play, but he seems to be dealing brilliantly with it.

I've got a renewed sense of optimism after reading that. Hopefully when we next see him he'll be much fitter and stronger.

I remember Reid giving a glowing report about Adrian Lamb in his Ewood E-Males thing. I don't know anything about him, is he a Sam appointment or Hughes/Ince?

[bigbrandjohn]

All very laudible sentiments and I am sure he is a great guy with a great attitude and only 21. My point still is that 6 million quid is big money for us and we have invested in someone who needs "running in " like my Dad's old Ford Consul.

We dont have the time in this league for that luxury. A run of poor results without the option to bring in tried and tested players means the pressure piles up and it is more difficult than ever to introduce someone who is not battle ready. I think we have been there before. My personal hunch is that Sam thought he was more ready than he actually is. Same goes for Salgado.

[joey_big_nose]

All very laudible sentiments and I am sure he is a great guy with a great attitude and only 21. My point still is that 6 million quid is big money for us and we have invested in someone who needs "running in " like my Dad's old Ford Consul.

We dont have the time in this league for that luxury. A run of poor results without the option to bring in tried and tested players means the pressure piles up and it is more difficult than ever to introduce someone who is not battle ready. I think we have been there before. My personal hunch is that Sam thought he was more ready than he actually is. Same goes for Salgado.

I think the point stands that for six million quid there were no "tried" and "tested" strikers out there that were any better than what we have already (Roberts and McCarthy). I certainly cannot think of one. Probably closest would be Frasier-Campbell but he has hardly set the Prem alight.

We needed to do something different to get the required quality for the right price. This is what we have gone for. The time for judgement is approaching in the next month or so.

[LeftWinger]

A 26 year old Drogba scored 4 Premier League goals by the turn of the year in his first season in the Premiership. Not only was he 5 years older than Nikola, but also built a lot better to adapt to the Premier League. Drogba is now arguably the best striker in the Premiership on his day. Kalinic will come good - lets all just get behind him and give him the time. If he came on and scored against Burnley it would do him the world of good in getting the fans to give him time. Fingers crossed.

[Hughesy]

Bigbrandjohn - we managed last season with Benni & Samba for the majority of time.

This season we have Benni, Roberts, Hoilett, Di Santo & then we have Samba & Dunn that can push forward.

Your personal hunch?? The lad needs time, thats fine - Sam said he would when he signed him...nothing has changed,

As for £6m being big money for us - yes it might be, but its not about us, its all about what £6m gets you. There are very few finished articles out there for £6m. Ched Evans & Dean Whitehead both went for £3m this summer!!

Nugent went to Pompey for £6m, Campbell to Sunderland for £6m, Caceido to City for £5m, Bojinov to City £5.75m, Walcott as a kid cost £6m rising to 12m, Marlon King £4m to Wigan, Beattie £6m (1 goal in 1st season), Chopra - £5m to Sunderland.

Some players need time, some dont - Nikola obviously needs to beef up, and thats what they are working on.

[Tris]

I think the point stands that for six million quid there were no "tried" and "tested" strikers out there that were any better than what we have already (Roberts and McCarthy). I certainly cannot think of one. Probably closest would be Frasier-Campbell but he has hardly set the Prem alight.

We needed to do something different to get the required quality for the right price. This is what we have gone for. The time for judgement is approaching in the next month or so.

I wonder if Allardyce would have signed Kalinic if the time had been available to do the legendary "Brockhall Tests" which apparently others were subjected to - and failed.

Eg Ghilas, now at Hull for a third of the price of the Croatian, 8 Premier League appearances (4 starts 4 subs) and a winning goal for them against Bolton, previously performing well at Brockhall for 4 days and thinking he was signing up ... until he was sent on his way 24 hours before Kalinic was a done deal.

BFS spent most of the summer saying the striker he would sign would have to be ready to hit the ground running in the Premier League. We are 2 games off being a QUARTER of the way through the season (would have been 1 game but for Fulham being in Europe) and the manager doesn't think Kalinic is physically ready ... and the player himself admits in the LET that he's knackered after BFS's training sessions!!

I hope we hear no more about these "Brockhall Tests" in the next transfer window. The fact that Kalinic and Salgado are now on the playing staff means the tests are either fictional or badly flawed.

[waggy]

good points tris,i reckon we bought nicola without him being watched,spending 6 million this way is a disgrace and i hope it does'nt happen again

[joey_big_nose]

I hope we hear no more about these "Brockhall Tests" in the next transfer window. The fact that Kalinic and Salgado are now on the playing staff means the tests are either fictional or badly flawed.

Um, but why then have we managed to signed NZonzi and Jacobsen both of whom represent oustanding value for money? Luck?

You are skewing your analysis to suit your view of Allardyce. I am neither for nor against him, but the results are currently mixed (2 good 2 bad) so why not call it as such?

[Tris]

Um, but why then have we managed to signed NZonzi and Jacobsen both of whom represent oustanding value for money? Luck?

You are skewing your analysis to suit your view of Allardyce. I am neither for nor against him, but the results are currently mixed (2 good 2 bad) so why not call it as such?

Not at all. In a thread about the marquee striker signing of Kalinic, I'm questioning why he doesn't seem to have been subjected to the same intense scrutiny as the better signings were this summer.

[dulwich]

Um, but why then have we managed to signed NZonzi and Jacobsen both of whom represent oustanding value for money? Luck?

You are skewing your analysis to suit your view of Allardyce. I am neither for nor against him, but the results are currently mixed (2 good 2 bad) so why not call it as such?

I think there's a lot of skewing of analysis, both for and against Allardyce. Something he's been guilty of himself, perhaps?

However, digressing from the thread, I've no doubt that Kalinic will be a success, but the fact of the matter is that he wasn't ready when bought. Who's fault is that? His or the managers? I dare say that had he been subjected to the relevent "tests", we may not have signed him in the first place. He may well have been a "poached" buy, when he suddenly became available.

(I'll not use the term panic buy, as I don't think that fits the case here.)

[joey_big_nose]

Not at all. In a thread about the marquee striker signing of Kalinic, I'm questioning why he doesn't seem to have been subjected to the same intense scrutiny as the better signings were this summer.

That is illogical as on one hand you are saying that these tests are flawed/fictious, but on the other hand saying the better signings are the result of them.

Anyway, I do understand your larger point. You feel we were rushed and made a mistake. I am saying that a component of getting Kalinic for cheap was that he would take time to adjust and Sam and JW understood that. There is no way for either of us to make a judgement about which is more accurate until he plays consistently which I feel will be within the next month or two.

For Sam's decision to be justified I would say Kalinic needs to come out and be a really excellent player for us over the second half of the season. Better than Gilas, better than Fraser Campbell, better than Roberts or McCarthy. That's the only real measure and will make the adjustment worth it.

I accept he could be awful, but there is no point jumping the gun.

[Tris]

That is illogical as on one hand you are saying that these tests are flawed/fictious, but on the other hand saying the better signings are the result of them.

Apologies. Perhaps I should have said - the tests should have been applied equally to all signings, with the same criteria needed to get through them!!

Especially for the player signed for 5 times the amount paid out for the two players you mentioned!!