[Archived] Nikola Kalinic

[mellison24]

Fixed it for you

[/mellison]

Thank you. Brain dead for a minute there!

[den]

With regards to only mentioning it now – I post on average once every two days and don't feel hundreds of people who could really care less need to know my opinion on every aspect of every player (some could take notice of that, btw). Nine times out of ten, if somebody says something I disagree with I just ignore it (and get on with my job!!)

I have always felt that his hold-up play has been good. If I'm honest, Den, I think sometimes you are guilty of forming an immediate opinion of people/situations and then find it very difficult to change that opinion. I think Aaron Lennon could set up three goals in the world cup final and you’d still tell everybody that he has no final ball:) By the way, you’re far from the only person – I don’t want to single you out or anything, but it’s just my opinion. I generally find that I agree with the majority of what you write. But what I’m saying is if a player comes on for 20 minutes of a game in progress then it is likely they will not have time to acclimatize to the pace of a game and make mistakes (especially difficult when you’re young, acclimatizing to a new country, style of football etc). So he comes on for 15 mins here or there, gets shoved off the ball by a centre back in full flow and you think “the boy can’t hold it up”.

If this season was the first time you had seen Michael Owen then I honestly believe you (and many others) would say that he can’t finish. He’s missed a hatful of chances and failed to create an impression on games because he’s given 20 mins and told to immediately get up to pace and change things. There are very few people who can do this – Solskjaer is the best example, Matty Derbyshire to a lesser degree. Owen clearly needs time and minutes before his excellent finishing really shows.

I don’t know if you went to the Chelsea game, where Niko played from the start, but he was bloody excellent. Never stopped running, won a surprisingly large amount of balls in the air, and held the ball up well. You’ll notice every time he gets it he immediately looks to bring the fullback or winger into play, and he’s very good at it. He totally won me over in that game, and I found it mystifying that he hasn’t started since then. He did more in those two hours than Di Santo has done in 20 games.

He’s still far from the complete player but I find it puzzling that people can come out and make judgments about his abilities based on so little evidence. I personally don’t think you can judge a player by what he does in spits and spats here or there. You judge them when they have consistency and time. The two things that have stood out to me about Niko’s game since he signed was his movement and his hold-up play. I really think he’s perhaps lost the ball the first two times people saw him and it creates a lasting impression, even if it’s a false one.

Fair comments Bellamy. You should post more. I always consider you to post honestly and that's what I try to do.

I confess to being on the negative side of things when it comes to judging a new player. A lot of people just see the positives in a player, and I used to do the same. I really think the best way to really judge someone is to look for the reasons why they wont/can't make it. There have been thousands of really talented players over the years, who on first impressions have looked to be the part, but have had underlying weaknesses to their game. Particularly younger players. We've seen loads of academy kids who look the part, only to disappear without trace because they haven't got the all round game to compete at the one of the highest levels in world football. I used to work with a Rovers scout called Denis Snape. I spoke to him every day of the week about his scouting and he judged players exactly the same way. He would always tell me that he'd seen a young lad at the weekend and as good as he appeared, he would never make it because of something lacking in his game. In other words, he looked for the reasons as to why someone wouldn't make it, as against the reasons as to why they would make it. That's how he got the best lads to Ewood. I'm a bit engrained that way as well.

Your comparison between Niko and Di Santo is fair as well. IMO Di Santo has more talent and has a better all round game, but he's ineffective.

"but I find it puzzling that people can come out and make judgments about his abilities based on so little evidence. " - Well it's just an opinion as we go along. Some people just say it as they see it at the time. Things, players change.

Probably not a post that replies properly to your comments Bellars, but what else can I say? I aint going to stop posting about a new player just in case I'm ultimately wrong.

[Blue n White Rover]

Fair comments Bellamy. You should post more. I always consider you to post honestly and that's what I try to do.

I confess to being on the negative side of things when it comes to judging a new player. A lot of people just see the positives in a player, and I used to do the same. I really think the best way to really judge someone is to look for the reasons why they wont/can't make it. There have been thousands of really talented players over the years, who on first impressions have looked to be the part, but have had underlying weaknesses to their game. Particularly younger players. We've seen loads of academy kids who look the part, only to disappear without trace because they haven't got the all round game to compete at the one of the highest levels in world football. I used to work with a Rovers scout called Denis Snape. I spoke to him every day of the week about his scouting and he judged players exactly the same way. He would always tell me that he'd seen a young lad at the weekend and as good as he appeared, he would never make it because of something lacking in his game. In other words, he looked for the reasons as to why someone wouldn't make it, as against the reasons as to why they would make it. That's how he got the best lads to Ewood. I'm a bit engrained that way as well.

Your comparison between Niko and Di Santo is fair as well. IMO Di Santo has more talent and has a better all round game, but he's ineffective.

"but I find it puzzling that people can come out and make judgments about his abilities based on so little evidence. " - Well it's just an opinion as we go along. Some people just say it as they see it at the time. Things, players change.

Probably not a post that replies properly to your comments Bellars, but what else can I say? I aint going to stop posting about a new player just in case I'm ultimately wrong.

Good post, just want to know though what abilities does Di Santo have that makes you think he has a better all round game?

We've seen Di Santo majority of the season, and from what I have seen of him, he has decent pace, good hold up play and great in the air. However, with Kalinic, he has the same abilities, maybe not as good in the air, but his creativity and his ability to run at defenders surely makes up for it?

We still haven't seen Di Santo have a proper effort on goal and its been 19 games, yet Kalinic showed last night that he has everything that Di Santo possesses and more. He was in the right place at the right time, and can also conjure up an opportunity for himself, something Di Santo lacks.

[T4E]

Fair comments Bellamy. You should post more. I always consider you to post honestly and that's what I try to do.

I confess to being on the negative side of things when it comes to judging a new player. A lot of people just see the positives in a player, and I used to do the same. I really think the best way to really judge someone is to look for the reasons why they wont/can't make it. There have been thousands of really talented players over the years, who on first impressions have looked to be the part, but have had underlying weaknesses to their game. Particularly younger players. We've seen loads of academy kids who look the part, only to disappear without trace because they haven't got the all round game to compete at the one of the highest levels in world football. I used to work with a Rovers scout called Denis Snape. I spoke to him every day of the week about his scouting and he judged players exactly the same way. He would always tell me that he'd seen a young lad at the weekend and as good as he appeared, he would never make it because of something lacking in his game. In other words, he looked for the reasons as to why someone wouldn't make it, as against the reasons as to why they would make it. That's how he got the best lads to Ewood. I'm a bit engrained that way as well.

Your comparison between Niko and Di Santo is fair as well. IMO Di Santo has more talent and has a better all round game, but he's ineffective.

"but I find it puzzling that people can come out and make judgments about his abilities based on so little evidence. " - Well it's just an opinion as we go along. Some people just say it as they see it at the time. Things, players change.

Probably not a post that replies properly to your comments Bellars, but what else can I say? I aint going to stop posting about a new player just in case I'm ultimately wrong.

Good post den, particularly the last bit. There's too much emphasis put on being right about a player or manager "from the start". All you can do is call it as you see it, game by game. My only criticism of your posts on Kalinic up until now would be the speed at which you judged him - perhaps certain performances weren't quite what you'd expect from your new £6m forward, but most agreed at the time that the potential and ability was there. I think thats perhaps why your posts stood out from the rest.

Anyway, delighted to read the feedback on him from last night. First time he's been almost universally praised without him scoring a goal. Its too easy to slate him when he doesnt score, and hail him when he does. The truth is more likely more balanced than that.

Start him on Sunday Sam. Or deserve all the criticism you get.

[bellamy11]

Fair comments Bellamy. You should post more. I always consider you to post honestly and that's what I try to do.

I confess to being on the negative side of things when it comes to judging a new player. A lot of people just see the positives in a player, and I used to do the same. I really think the best way to really judge someone is to look for the reasons why they wont/can't make it. There have been thousands of really talented players over the years, who on first impressions have looked to be the part, but have had underlying weaknesses to their game. Particularly younger players. We've seen loads of academy kids who look the part, only to disappear without trace because they haven't got the all round game to compete at the one of the highest levels in world football. I used to work with a Rovers scout called Denis Snape. I spoke to him every day of the week about his scouting and he judged players exactly the same way. He would always tell me that he'd seen a young lad at the weekend and as good as he appeared, he would never make it because of something lacking in his game. In other words, he looked for the reasons as to why someone wouldn't make it, as against the reasons as to why they would make it. That's how he got the best lads to Ewood. I'm a bit engrained that way as well.

Your comparison between Niko and Di Santo is fair as well. IMO Di Santo has more talent and has a better all round game, but he's ineffective.

"but I find it puzzling that people can come out and make judgments about his abilities based on so little evidence. " - Well it's just an opinion as we go along. Some people just say it as they see it at the time. Things, players change.

Probably not a post that replies properly to your comments Bellars, but what else can I say? I aint going to stop posting about a new player just in case I'm ultimately wrong.

Echo the comments that follow this. Good post and an interesting way of judging players. I imagine that the more crap I see over the years the more I will come around to this way of thinking

I'm not necessarily one to automatically seek the positive in anything (certainly not to the degree of others, like smoss, Hughesy, unluckymorton and so on), but similarly I think accusations are sometimes unfairly thrown at players too. I particularly find this with goalkeepers, although this could be a keepers union thing. A lot of times keepers get criticised for stuff and I wonder how long a particular poster has ever spent playing in goal in a proper 11 a side game because there is a lot about keeping that is misunderstood.

Anyway, that's a tangent. I always try and be as balanced as possible. I'm probably one of the only people on here who gives Keith Andrews a clean slate before every game (how many people would have blamed him and begged for him to be dropped if he'd played last night and exactly the same thing had happened?). I appreciate your honesty when assessing a player and hope you continue to be so because it makes for interesting reading.

[Rob of the Rovers]

Kalinic definitely needs to be partnered up front by Di Santo. Di Santo can hold the ball up and head it well. Kalinic can get himself into some great positions. Keep faith in that partnership and I honestly believe that goals will come.

Couldn't agree more.

[gumboots]

Couldn't agree more.

Did anyone else listen to allardyce on Radio Rovers last night when Neil asked him if Kalinic's performance meant that he would have to start on Sunday and he said, "It depends on his legs" The lad is 21 and should be fit as a fiddle. They only run about 10k even when they are chasing everything and, although i couldn't run that even once in a week, let alone twice, plenty of averagely fit people can. Now I know that distance is not the only thing that counts as footballers run in short spurts and have to keep changing direction which puts strain on the knees but surely twice in 3 days is not too often?

[Majiball]

Did anyone else listen to allardyce on Radio Rovers last night when Neil asked him if Kalinic's performance meant that he would have to start on Sunday and he said, "It depends on his legs" The lad is 21 and should be fit as a fiddle. They only run about 10k even when they are chasing everything and, although i couldn't run that even once in a week, let alone twice, plenty of averagely fit people can. Now I know that distance is not the only thing that counts as footballers run in short spurts and have to keep changing direction which puts strain on the knees but surely twice in 3 days is not too often?

No Gumboots its not too much to ask. He should easily be up to the job, he's most likely been doing it all his life. If Sam believe's what he's saying then he doesn't know as much as he thinks.

[LeChuck]

They only run about 10k...plenty of averagely fit people can.

You can't compare it to a regular 10km run because it's not the same. A lot of that distance will be made up of short sprinting bursts, which are far, far more demanding on the body.

If they just did a steady 10km jog (which is what you're comparing it to) then there wouldn't be a problem.

[Tom]

Once again Kalinic is impressing, time he was a regular starter now he's as ready as he's gonna be.

I think that league duck is being broke on sunday

[Amo]

Once again Kalinic is impressing, time he was a regular starter now he's as ready as he's gonna be.

I think that league duck is being broke on sunday

The problem is he needs to be playing week in week out to build some momentum - something he's not afforded.

[den]

Good post, just want to know though what abilities does Di Santo have that makes you think he has a better all round game?

We've seen Di Santo majority of the season, and from what I have seen of him, he has decent pace, good hold up play and great in the air. However, with Kalinic, he has the same abilities, maybe not as good in the air, but his creativity and his ability to run at defenders surely makes up for it?

I dunno, FDS just seems to be more comfortable on the ball, has a sharper footballing brain and has scope to improve tremendously. IF FDS could add goals to his game he would be the complete footballer, - IMO. Whereas Kalanic, to me, seems to create his opportunities mainly through sheer graft and persistence. Last night suggested though, that there isn't too much between them. Can Niko keep it up, we'll see.

Got to remember Di Santo is younger too.

[Blue n White Rover]

I dunno, FDS just seems to be more comfortable on the ball, has a sharper footballing brain and has scope to improve tremendously. IF FDS could add goals to his game he would be the complete footballer, - IMO. Whereas Kalanic, to me, seems to create his opportunities mainly through sheer graft and persistence. Last night suggested though, that there isn't too much between them. Can Niko keep it up, we'll see.

Got to remember Di Santo is younger too.

If Di Santo did have a sharper footballing brain then he would be getting into positions to score a lot more goal?. The movement of Kalinic seems to be better than Di Santo's, however, it is way too early to judge. Kalinic has got himself into more goalscoring opportunities than Di Santo, and that would suggest he has just a good footballing brain if not better. Sheer graft and persistence may pay dividends at times but take Dirk Kuyt for example, he has the same attitude but rarely conjures up a chance for himself.

What other weaknesses have you seen in Di Santo other than the obvious goalscoring that he lacks, and how does that fair against Kalinic?

[gumboots]

You can't compare it to a regular 10km run because it's not the same. A lot of that distance will be made up of short sprinting bursts, which are far, far more demanding on the body.

If they just did a steady 10km jog (which is what you're comparing it to) then there wouldn't be a problem.

Which is why I said i do understand about players doing a lot of twists turns etc. But these are trained athletes and it's once every 3-4 days that they are being asked to do it and they are young fit and healthy with the best diets, the best recovery treatments available etc. Surely just for a week or 2 Kalinic could play 2 games running even if they are only 3 days apart.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Did anyone else listen to allardyce on Radio Rovers last night when Neil asked him if Kalinic's performance meant that he would have to start on Sunday and he said, "It depends on his legs" The lad is 21 and should be fit as a fiddle. They only run about 10k even when they are chasing everything and, although i couldn't run that even once in a week, let alone twice, plenty of averagely fit people can. Now I know that distance is not the only thing that counts as footballers run in short spurts and have to keep changing direction which puts strain on the knees but surely twice in 3 days is not too often?

I would agree - but I am sure that Sam is thinking longer term - possibly to the second leg next Wednesday. Having said all that - I would start with him and Di Santo up front against Fulham. If we win - and with those two up front I think we have the best chance - it will help with confidence for the very difficult visit to Villa.

Regarding Kalanic's general play - it has improved drastically - and he won a fair number of balls in the air against a good Villa defence.

Against Fulham Sam has to start with both - just there constant running alone will create chances. It also helps our midfield to have more targets to aims for - especially if they are running and creating space (take note Benni and Roberts).

[Majiball]

Which is why I said i do understand about players doing a lot of twists turns etc. But these are trained athletes and it's once every 3-4 days that they are being asked to do it and they are young fit and healthy with the best diets, the best recovery treatments available etc. Surely just for a week or 2 Kalinic could play 2 games running even if they are only 3 days apart.

Look at it from this angle do any other players of similar age play 2 consecutive games in similar circumstances and perform? I believe the answers a simple yes. Just look at the gunners they are full of players who play week in week out of similar ages. Fabregas a player who is not renowned for his physical attributes has played over 3 times more games than Kalinic and is only 22 against Kalinics 21.

The 7 odd months he's been here for are more than ample for any training adaptation they could have required for him to reach "premiership standard". With all the knowledge there is now in fitness it shouldn't present any issue for him to play both games and do well.

[RoverRich]

You can't compare it to a regular 10km run because it's not the same. A lot of that distance will be made up of short sprinting bursts, which are far, far more demanding on the body.

If they just did a steady 10km jog (which is what you're comparing it to) then there wouldn't be a problem.

Footballers cover 10K in 90mins. Runners cover 10K in 30mins. Footballers have a 15minute break in the middle so how is it more demanding?? Ok, sprints are more demanding than easy running but 10K in 105mins should be easy. Getting scientifical, footballers won't be sprinting continuously so breaks in between bursts will allow for ATP replenishment in the muscles allowing for sufficient energy supply throughout the match. The rests they have will allow for lactic acid removal through aerobic respiration so fatigue will be less. Shorter sprints are a lot easier to recover from than long distances.

Before people start moaning, this is coming from a Sport Science student and a distance runner who knows exactly how 'steady' runs compare to football matches. These are professional athletes, it should be manageable.

Anyway, on topic, I have always believed in Niko's ability and I am just glad he is showing people what he is capable of. I can't wait til he starts banging in the goals cos he will soon. I loved Matty Jansen as a Rovers player so already have an affinity towards Niko.

[DeadlyDirk]

He's 22 and has had half a season to get match practice and hasn't exactly featured frequently, if he's not capable of playing 2 games in a week at his age then he never will be.

Just start him Sam and keep us all happy.

[Kelbo]

Footballers cover 10K in 90mins. Runners cover 10K in 30mins. Footballers have a 15minute break in the middle so how is it more demanding?? Ok, sprints are more demanding than easy running but 10K in 105mins should be easy. Getting scientifical, footballers won't be sprinting continuously so breaks in between bursts will allow for ATP replenishment in the muscles allowing for sufficient energy supply throughout the match. The rests they have will allow for lactic acid removal through aerobic respiration so fatigue will be less. Shorter sprints are a lot easier to recover from than long distances.

Before people start moaning, this is coming from a Sport Science student and a distance runner who knows exactly how 'steady' runs compare to football matches. These are professional athletes, it should be manageable.

Anyway, on topic, I have always believed in Niko's ability and I am just glad he is showing people what he is capable of. I can't wait til he starts banging in the goals cos he will soon. I loved Matty Jansen as a Rovers player so already have an affinity towards Niko.

Accepted, so why are half marothon runners only recommended so many runs per year?

Why with the best coaches and science guys in the world are our cyclists only told 'they only had so many rides in them in the Olympics? (one of the lads I coached football at junior level, got the bronze and he told me)

[John]

Really impressed with his all round play. Needs a goal to go in asap and he will kick on I reckon.

[Kelbo]

Really impressed with his all round play. Needs a goal to go in asap and he will kick on I reckon.

Yes, me too, this guy could be one to watch!!

[rebelmswar]

Really impressed with his all round play. Needs a goal to go in asap and he will kick on I reckon.

Definitely can not criticize his work rate either.

My only worry is that he throws his elbows around more than a granny at a jumble sale.

[John]

Definitely can not criticize his work rate either.

I forget to mention that, he does work bl00dy hard, which is always great to see too.

[Lytham]

In the present climate on here does Sam get some credit for signing Kalinic ?

[RoverRich]

Accepted, so why are half marothon runners only recommended so many runs per year?

Why with the best coaches and science guys in the world are our cyclists only told 'they only had so many rides in them in the Olympics? (one of the lads I coached football at junior level, got the bronze and he told me)

To answer your first question, it is mainly down to impact and the forces on the body, and so that they are less likely to suffer from overuse injuries such as stress fractures and shin splints. It is very hard to maintain high mileage throughout the year and runners will target set races. They are only recommended few because they want quicker times.

Question 2 - I am not sure about cycling to be honest, it is completely different. And which cyclists do you mean - track or road cyclists? If its track it may just be down to how long they can stay at the top of their game, but in all honesty, not really sure about that one. You got me!