[Archived] Nikola Kalinic

[rebelmswar]

In the present climate on here does Sam get some credit for signing Kalinic ?

The only credit Sam gets is from Wrigleys.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Yes. If only he had played him a bit more then im pretty sure Sam would have got more credit for it, although i understand his reasons for leaving him out until now. If he's left out against Fulham then I dont know how he'll start regularly for us this season, he couldnt have done any more on thurs.

Id give him 60 mins on Sunday and then bring on McCarthy in his place. Kalinic clearly has more of a goal threat than Di Santo and works harder than Benni so he deserves some game time.

Be great to see him go on a run of goals as im sure he's felt serious pressure from being brought in as our big money signing yet only having a bit part role up until now.

[Kelbo]

To answer your first question, it is mainly down to impact and the forces on the body, and so that they are less likely to suffer from overuse injuries such as stress fractures and shin splints. It is very hard to maintain high mileage throughout the year and runners will target set races. They are only recommended few because they want quicker times.

Question 2 - I am not sure about cycling to be honest, it is completely different. And which cyclists do you mean - track or road cyclists? If its track it may just be down to how long they can stay at the top of their game, but in all honesty, not really sure about that one. You got me!

Individual Pursuit!! Track

Yes.

Be great to see him go on a run of goals as im sure he's felt serious pressure from being brought in as our big money signing yet only having a bit part role up until now.

Thats where we as supporters can help, chant his name and appreciate him, it will really lift the lad, trust me, if he thinks he has won the supporters over it will help him no end!!

Yes.

Be great to see him go on a run of goals as im sure he's felt serious pressure from being brought in as our big money signing yet only having a bit part role up until now.

Thats where we as supporters can help, chant his name and appreciate him, it will really lift the lad, trust me, if he thinks he has won the supporters over it will help him no end!!

[RoverRich]

Individual Pursuit!! Track

Trying to think up some sort of logic to answer this question but not an experienced cyclist so I wouldn't be surprised if you know more than me. Individual pursuit though is 4K(?) so around middle distance in cycling terms which means lactic accumulation would be great I imagine so very fatiguing. Maybe also because of the strength training required in cycling. There is only so much work the muscles can take and sooner or later they will weaken. Bit like the marathon running, they have to make the most of it whilst they can and before chronic effects are felt. They can't keep punishing their body too much. It is an interesting point.

[Majiball]

Footballers cover 10K in 90mins. Runners cover 10K in 30mins. Footballers have a 15minute break in the middle so how is it more demanding?? Ok, sprints are more demanding than easy running but 10K in 105mins should be easy. Getting scientifical, footballers won't be sprinting continuously so breaks in between bursts will allow for ATP replenishment in the muscles allowing for sufficient energy supply throughout the match. The rests they have will allow for lactic acid removal through aerobic respiration so fatigue will be less. Shorter sprints are a lot easier to recover from than long distances.

Before people start moaning, this is coming from a Sport Science student and a distance runner who knows exactly how 'steady' runs compare to football matches. These are professional athletes, it should be manageable.

Anyway, on topic, I have always believed in Niko's ability and I am just glad he is showing people what he is capable of. I can't wait til he starts banging in the goals cos he will soon. I loved Matty Jansen as a Rovers player so already have an affinity towards Niko.

There's a lot more muscles required in football than running for starters so the demands go up. Running is also one dimensional in that you just go forwards only and consequently only use the muscle groups involved in the forward action. Football requires many movements constantly, forwards, backwards, sideways, jumping, walking, jogging, strength situations, cruising, sprinting which have high anaerobic demands and consequently uses far more muscle groups. This is the key these don't really exist in running its just not explosive, these actions occur almost every 10 seconds on average. The overall demand will be much higher in football and the body can only hold so much in total, the replenishment you talk about is for the ATP's in the muscles, but the supply is not un-limited. The changes in pace make quite a difference as well braking and accelerating all require more energy, again you don't do this in running.

Half time is somewhat of a curse, whilst yes you recover your ATP stores in the muscles then fully (takes 3-5 minutes for muscle atp to replenish, doesn't happen during a match), But again you can't replenish the overall part during that time. The rest is actually counter-productive as studies have shown that keeping warm during the break results in more anaerobic actions and slightly higher distances covered. Its much better to do it all in one hit than in two and the body copes better as well, a bit like doing one 5Km race, then 15 minutes later doing another.

90 minutes of football is far more demanding than a 10Km run, average VO2max of a premiership footballer is 70+. Marathon level I believe, but your right even at those levels it is manageable. Just look at other teams and if all their players can't do it either then its true but they are and do.

Accepted, so why are half marothon runners only recommended so many runs per year?

Why with the best coaches and science guys in the world are our cyclists only told 'they only had so many rides in them in the Olympics? (one of the lads I coached football at junior level, got the bronze and he told me)

There's a big difference. As you've said they are reccomended a set number of races, this will most likely be about maintaining them at peak. However in football you can't be selective you must play when asked and its more about maintaining as high an overall average as possible, you'll never keep them consistently at peak over time.

EDIT: just so people know Lactic acid build up is not the cause of fatique, its Ca+ ion build up.

[47er]

Definitely can not criticize his work rate either.

My only worry is that he throws his elbows around more than a granny at a jumble sale.

And follows through too. Needs to curb that.

[Kelbo]

And follows through too. Needs to curb that.

Thats a bit of fire in your belly, I like that!!

[RoverRich]

There's a lot more muscles required in football than running for starters so the demands go up. Running is also one dimensional in that you just go forwards only and consequently only use the muscle groups involved in the forward action. Football requires many movements constantly, forwards, backwards, sideways, jumping, walking, jogging, strength situations, cruising, sprinting which have high anaerobic demands and consequently uses far more muscle groups. This is the key these don't really exist in running its just not explosive, these actions occur almost every 10 seconds on average. The overall demand will be much higher in football and the body can only hold so much in total, the replenishment you talk about is for the ATP's in the muscles, but the supply is not un-limited. The changes in pace make quite a difference as well braking and accelerating all require more energy, again you don't do this in running.

Half time is somewhat of a curse, whilst yes you recover your ATP stores in the muscles then fully (takes 3-5 minutes for muscle atp to replenish, doesn't happen during a match), But again you can't replenish the overall part during that time. The rest is actually counter-productive as studies have shown that keeping warm during the break results in more anaerobic actions and slightly higher distances covered. Its much better to do it all in one hit than in two and the body copes better as well, a bit like doing one 5Km race, then 15 minutes later doing another.

90 minutes of football is far more demanding than a 10Km run, average VO2max of a premiership footballer is 70+. Marathon level I believe, but your right even at those levels it is manageable. Just look at other teams and if all their players can't do it either then its true but they are and do.

Fair play, you have obviously studied football in more detail than I have, in scientific terms anyway. I agree with what you are saying about the effects on the body due to the explosive nature, that I cannot argue with. More muscle groups, more fatigue, it does make sense actually.

I have been on athletics messageboard which always say how running is a lot more demanding than football and how footballers would never be able to run quick 10K times. This I understand due to their anaerobic work but I am very surprised that premiership level footballers have a VO2 max as high as 70+. Surely being this fit would mean recovery is quicker though? I suppose different sports look at other sports in different/biased ways. Footballers may find running distance races harder than playing a football match. I am not trying to say playing 90mins of premierleague football is easy, what I am trying to say is that running 10K is demanding too and that pro footballers should be able to deal with playing games frequently. After all they do get paid enough to work hard.

Nothing like a nice, enjoyable scientific debate! Much more fun than slating Sam and/or players.

Edit - just seen your edit up above and lactic acid may not necessarily be the exact cause of fatigue but it is a definite factor in leading to fatigue as the increased acidity affects contractile and metabolic mechanisms of muscle.

[Dan]

We need to play Niko for at least 2 o3 consecutive games. If he manages to get a few goals and boost his confidence he might just save our season. He has a great touch and looks to have a pretty decent shot on him. My only gripe is he looks a little too unselfish! It seems like ages ago we'd have a striker that would get the ball near the 18 yard box and unleash a pile driver into the top corner. It's most likely a confidence thing, not scoring goals means players don't try anything spectacular. Saying that though the shot that hit the post yesterday would have been a fantastic goal. Speaking of which do we even have a contender for goal of the season so far? The only decent goals I can think of are the Dunn and Chimbonda goals against the dingles.

[Majiball]

Fair play, you have obviously studied football in more detail than I have, in scientific terms anyway. I agree with what you are saying about the effects on the body due to the explosive nature, that I cannot argue with. More muscle groups, more fatigue, it does make sense actually.

I have been on athletics messageboard which always say how running is a lot more demanding than football and how footballers would never be able to run quick 10K times. This I understand due to their anaerobic work but I am very surprised that premiership level footballers have a VO2 max as high as 70+. Surely being this fit would mean recovery is quicker though? I suppose different sports look at other sports in different/biased ways. Footballers may find running distance races harder than playing a football match. I am not trying to say playing 90mins of premierleague football is easy, what I am trying to say is that running 10K is demanding too and that pro footballers should be able to deal with playing games frequently. After all they do get paid enough to work hard.

Nothing like a nice, enjoyable scientific debate! Much more fun than slating Sam and/or players.

If there was a race between a 10Km runner and a footballer the runner i would put my money on the runner everytime. The runners body is conditioned for continous exercise, the footballers is not. Because of the difference explained in the two sports the training is also quite different as well. I would not have footballer doing a 10Km run it would all be re-presentive of the game itself, so all the motions mentioned would be trained both in isolation and combination.

Recovery should be quite quick but when you start to add it all up across the season especially with the demands beings as they are (always rising, high corelation between VO2Max and league position), it will become an issue but your not talking a long time. But again there are supplements and tricks that can speed this up, give you more energy, aid sprinting and are legal. Some are even natural .

I take nothing away from any other sports, all require high levels of commitment and discipline to do well in, its just football does have higher energy demands.

I am agreeing with you there is absolutly no reason why they shouldn't be able to cope, they couldn't play 1 in 3 all the time but on occasion with the right preperation its easy. I'm fairly sure there will have been many an occasion when the big teams have had say one of the top four in the league followed by a big team in the chumpions league, playing the same team twice in the space of a few days. I don't understand why he's saying it about Kalinic, I could take a normal sendentary man and have him run a marathon in a good timw with 7 months training. So we have we not been able to make a professional footballer into a premiership footballer who can play 2 in3, in that time? You'll also note he's happy to play Di santo week in week out, he's not worried about his legs?

Answers on a postcard.

[John]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/152053/Nikola-Kalinic-kept-out-of-firing-line/

“We didn’t really bring him here to be our top man this season. We were investing in a young player for the future. The aim is to bring him on slowly.

[RibbleValleyRover]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/152053/Nikola-Kalinic-kept-out-of-firing-line/

“We didn’t really bring him here to be our top man this season. We were investing in a young player for the future. The aim is to bring him on slowly.

Sounds like there is a good chance he won't start against Fulham then. Back to the out of form and unfit Dunny and Di Santo by the looks of it.

I think Sam is wrong on this issue, Kalinic looks ready to me and playing him one week leaving him out the next is doing far more damage to his confidence than throwing him in the deep end which Sam thinks.

[rebelmswar]

Sounds like there is a good chance he won't start against Fulham then. Back to the out of form and unfit Dunny and Di Santo by the looks of it.

I think Sam is wrong on this issue, Kalinic looks ready to me and playing him one week leaving him out the next is doing far more damage to his confidence than throwing him in the deep end which Sam thinks.

That is f%$^ing unacceptable Sam.

I can not understand what you are going on about.

He played very very well in a cup semi, what more do you want? Do you think Fulham are more of a threat than Villa? What more needs to be proved.

Give him a strike partner and win a bloody game for a change.

[Dan]

That is f%$^ing unacceptable Sam.

I can not understand what you are going on about.

He played very very well in a cup semi, what more do you want? Do you think Fulham are more of a threat than Villa? What more needs to be proved.

Give him a strike partner and win a bloody game for a change.

He is completely clueless in every aspect of management. Niko is hungry and needs to be played!

[Majiball]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/152053/Nikola-Kalinic-kept-out-of-firing-line/

“We didn’t really bring him here to be our top man this season. We were investing in a young player for the future. The aim is to bring him on slowly.

Look I really agree with him, kids do need to be blooded slowly and carefully my feelings are littered all over here.

However, Niko has looked the part recently and not just the other night. There is plenty of praise for him recently in his short appearances as well recently. But for me there's been one consistency with him in almost every appearance I can think of with him, he's had a chance to score. But he's in and out and can't find his rhythm with the team. All these sub appearances by the time he's getting into the game its almost over. Strikers need a run of consecutive games I can't think of a pundit who hasn't said it, especially those that where them, themselves.

But the big issue is the other options we have, we have persevered with Di Santo all year and one goal is never going to keep us up. The other two well everyone knows their issues. He is the only one who at present looks like scoring. He can say the rest of the team need to do more but they aren't, Kalinic looks like he could.

It will all be elementary anyway if we don't start scoring goals soon anyway. Because if we go down he'll be out the door anyway.

Play him against Fulham, if your worried about his poor little legs being tired, here's a thought. Play Di Santo up with him so the poor fella has less running to do and some help, food for thought.

[JAL]

That is f%$^ing unacceptable Sam.

I can not understand what you are going on about.

He played very very well in a cup semi, what more do you want? Do you think Fulham are more of a threat than Villa? What more needs to be proved.

Give him a strike partner and win a bloody game for a change.

It confuses us all when Sam speaks about playing well and keeping the shirt.

Look I really agree with him, kids do need to be blooded slowly and carefully my feelings are littered all over here.

However, Niko has looked the part recently and not just the other night. There is plenty of praise for him recently in his short appearances as well recently. But for me there's been one consistency with him in almost every appearance I can think of with him, he's had a chance to score. But he's in and out and can't find his rhythm with the team. All these sub appearances by the time he's getting into the game its almost over. Strikers need a run of consecutive games I can't think of a pundit who hasn't said it, especially those that where them, themselves.

But the big issue is the other options we have, we have persevered with Di Santo all year and one goal is never going to keep us up. The other two well everyone knows their issues. He is the only one who at present looks like scoring. He can say the rest of the team need to do more but they aren't, Kalinic looks like he could.

It will all be elementary anyway if we don't start scoring goals soon anyway. Because if we go down he'll be out the door anyway.

Play him against Fulham, if your worried about his poor little legs being tired, here's a thought. Play Di Santo up with him so the poor fella has less running to do and some help, food for thought.

Think every Rovers fan will be expecting 4-4-2 on sunday, with Klainic playing alongside ANother. Anything else and I'll just have to watch the crowd for the entertainment instead of the game.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Lets wait to see what the team sheet is before we go and lose our collective sh*t about Sam's player choices. Kalinic did more against Villa then Di Santo has done in the 5/6 games ive seen him in so i know what i want to see. If Sam fails to pick Niko then he'd put more pressure on himself to win the Fulham game.

[beerwins]

“Nikola’s performance on Thursday might suggest he is ready for a long run in the side. But I’m still wary of the fact that if he doesn’t score his confidence might go and never return.

This to me is the strangest thing I have heard towards a striker that wants to score goals, im sure some can understand it better than me but a player wants to play, a striker wants to score he wont get any of them opportunities if he is sat on the bench and when ever Sam does get round to starting him he is still going to have to go through the same emotions.

As fans we understand his age and we understand that it affects his morale if he doesnt get the goals but he is young and the youth tend to have a habit of bouncing back goals will come for him but only if he plays.

Ah what do I know im getting sick of arguing the toss he has done enough to earn a run in the side maybe if he wasnt on his own up front all the blame wouldnt lie with him did Sam ever think of that?

[RevidgeBlue]

"We just can't find a cutting edge to give us our victory."

errr........... "So I'll just drop the only one of our strikers to show any promise recently."

This is getting beyond bizarre. As others have said already, how many goals is he going to score from the bench or stand? How is his confidence helped by being continually left out or coming on for bits of games when invariably we are chasing the game because the manager got his starting tactics wrong?

I wonder if there are any non-footballing factors at play here? Such as payments triggered by so many appearances etc which we don't want to pay.

[Tom]

Sam may be playing mind games, there's no way he can drop Kalinic now.

The guy talks rubbish he says about damaging his confidence and not rushing him yet he threw him in at Sunderland and has singled him out for missing a chance.

Anything to shift the blame from him.

[beerwins]

I just dont believe Sam said these comments its unreal, If a player plays well when he gets the chance he starts the next match simple as unless its tactically wrong which it isnt.

Sometimes you cant help but think the massive backroom staff Sam had at bolton were all shrinks looking after him

[USABlue]

This is getting beyond bizarre.

Absolutely. Kalinic has impressed me since his (wrongfullY)dis-allowed goal against the Mancs. You cn just see he has it, the movement, the read on the game only games will get him scoring.

Remember our last 6 million pound man that wrongfully had a goal gainst United ruled out. Yeah you know who, I'd hate to see this kid go down that road. If Sam drops him now surely the kid has to be wondering just what the hell he has to do, it could easily do in his confidence.

[bigbrandjohn]

Absolutely. Kalinic has impressed me since his (wrongfullY)dis-allowed goal against the Mancs. You cn just see he has it, the movement, the read on the game only games will get him scoring.

Remember our last 6 million pound man that wrongfully had a goal gainst United ruled out. Yeah you know who, I'd hate to see this kid go down that road. If Sam drops him now surely the kid has to be wondering just what the hell he has to do, it could easily do in his confidence.

He doesn't want him in a survival fight. Perhaps he is saving him for a promotion push next season in the Championship.

[alexanders]

THis is one of the things Sam has to on Sunday.

Start with Nikola Kalinic on the bench and the crowd will be worried/angry before a ball is even kicked.

He deserves to play and I am very confident that he will score or have an assist if given the chance on Sunday.

[Bobby G]

We need to be positive from the outset.

2 STRIKERS are needed from the outset and one of them MUST be Kalinic.

If we fail at least lets do it with no regrets.