[Archived] Witton Park Last Night...

[stuwilky]

It's normally the person who's arranging all the details for the beloved to set a dress code/preference though isn't it?

Yes. And its their business - which is the point Im getting at. What I find normal and what you find normal probably arent the same. And that is fine.

The issue on Friday night isnt the religion, or even what they were doing. Its the impact on others due to a PA system used irresponsibly. U2 had many complaints after their gigs in Barcelona and in Dublin for exactly the same reason. But no one cried for them to be "sent home".

[Blue n White Rover]

Right to clear a few things up on here. Being a Muslim myself, that night was the 15th of Shabaan (Islamic month). This is known as "The Night of Forgiveness" and where everything is accounted for in the previous year, and what will be written for the year ahead. To some people it may be a bit baffling. Many muslims around the world pray all night in order for their forgiveness, it is also a desirable act to go to the cemetery at night in order to pay your respects. To do it over a PA is out of order and disrespectful to the dead, as well as to the local community. What happened that night should not have gone on, a peaceful gathering where a quiet Prayer is made would have been the way to go around it. I did not see the need of the PA System that was used and for it to happen in the early hours of the morning was very disrespectful. Hopefully, in many other years, this will be organised accordingly and will pass without any trouble.

As a Muslim, i'd like to apologise to all those who were affected by the noise.

[Dunnfc]

Right to clear a few things up on here. Being a Muslim myself, that night was the 15th of Shabaan (Islamic month). This is known as "The Night of Forgiveness" and where everything is accounted for in the previous year, and what will be written for the year ahead. To some people it may be a bit baffling. Many muslims around the world pray all night in order for their forgiveness, it is also a desirable act to go to the cemetery at night in order to pay your respects. To do it over a PA is out of order and disrespectful to the dead, as well as to the local community. What happened that night should not have gone on, a peaceful gathering where a quiet Prayer is made would have been the way to go around it. I did not see the need of the PA System that was used and for it to happen in the early hours of the morning was very disrespectful. Hopefully, in many other years, this will be organised accordingly and will pass without any trouble.

As a Muslim, i'd like to apologise to all those who were affected by the noise.

Really don't think it should be you passing on your apoligies mate, you wern't one of them causing an anti social scene.

[Blue n White Rover]

Really don't think it should be you passing on your apoligies mate, you wern't one of them causing an anti social scene.

Yes, but when there is crowd trouble at a football match, then it is the club that apologises. In this case there was trouble caused by people who follow my religion, and I would like to pass on my apology to them.

[colin]

Yes, but when there is crowd trouble at a football match, then it is the club that apologises. In this case there was trouble caused by people who follow my religion, and I would like to pass on my apology to them.

Well, no actually, you shouldn't have to apologise for an idiot with a PA just because he shares your religion and hasn't got the brain he was born with. You can scroll back a bit on this thread and find a few people who don't share your religion, and they haven't got the brains they were born with either.

Regardless of religion, there are too many "SHOUTY PEOPLE" out there. Right Smithy?

[thenodrog]

The issue on Friday night isnt the religion, or even what they were doing. Its the impact on others due to a PA system used irresponsibly. U2 had many complaints after their gigs in Barcelona and in Dublin for exactly the same reason. But no one cried for them to be "sent home".

I would have.... can't be doing with em.

[thenodrog]

Right to clear a few things up on here. Being a Muslim myself, that night was the 15th of Shabaan (Islamic month). This is known as "The Night of Forgiveness" and where everything is accounted for in the previous year, and what will be written for the year ahead. To some people it may be a bit baffling. Many muslims around the world pray all night in order for their forgiveness, it is also a desirable act to go to the cemetery at night in order to pay your respects. To do it over a PA is out of order and disrespectful to the dead, as well as to the local community. What happened that night should not have gone on, a peaceful gathering where a quiet Prayer is made would have been the way to go around it. I did not see the need of the PA System that was used and for it to happen in the early hours of the morning was very disrespectful. Hopefully, in many other years, this will be organised accordingly and will pass without any trouble.

As a Muslim, i'd like to apologise to all those who were affected by the noise.

Thank you blue n white rover for your apologies but as Dunn fc says it shouldn't be you apologising.

btw I am baffled...... and if you are not baffled also then I'm amazed. You sound well educated and level headed so do you not question the need for all this nonsense in the 21st century? Asking for, and even dafter expecting forgiveness from some mythological being, self flagellation, nocturnal trips to the graveyard etc etc, we generally refer to the very few strange people who do this weird stuff in the name of christian religion as religious cranks and nutters. Do you view your islamic equivalent likewise, and is the %age about the same?

[stuwilky]

I would have.... can't be doing with em.

I rather like em!

[Blue n White Rover]

Thank you blue n white rover for your apologies but as Dunn fc says it shouldn't be you apologising.

btw I am baffled...... and if you are not baffled also then I'm amazed. You sound well educated and level headed so do you not question the need for all this nonsense in the 21st century? Asking for, and even dafter expecting forgiveness from some mythological being, self flagellation, nocturnal trips to the graveyard etc etc, we generally refer to the very few strange people who do this weird stuff in the name of christian religion as religious cranks and nutters. Do you view your islamic equivalent likewise, and is the %age about the same?

Absolutely not, I have many relatives that have passed away and are buried in that graveyard. It is one of the Sunnah's of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). He attended the graveyard very frequently to pray for those who have left us. He also went there on this Special night. We try our best to live the lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and try to perform as many Sunnah's as possible.

You may not believe in religion but I do, and I'm sure many members on this message board believe in religion. We go to the graveyard to pay our respects and pray to Our Lord to forgive them as well as us. Most of the prayers that night are carried out in Mosques not just at the graveyard. These are our beliefs and I'm sure many people here will respect that.

[thenodrog]

You may not believe in religion but I do, and I'm sure many members on this message board believe in religion. We go to the graveyard to pay our respects and pray to Our Lord to forgive them as well as us. Most of the prayers that night are carried out in Mosques not just at the graveyard. These are our beliefs and I'm sure many people here will respect that.

Forgive who and for what? Surely you do not turn up in a graveyard at night to pray for forgiveness for members of this message board do you b&wr? .... err well on second thoughts maybe a few do need forgiving for their indescretions.

Anyway I'm sure the best way forward is to endeavour not to commit any wrong in the first place.

There is that better for your sensibilities tcj?

[tcj_jones]

You can believe what you want theno, but please don't insult, belittle, question and patronize at every turn what some people hold sacred. You don't always have to say what is on your mind, especially when it is extremely offensive.

We've found out what the fuss was about, now can we close the thread.

[thenodrog]

You can believe what you want theno, but please don't insult, belittle, question and patronize at every turn what some people hold sacred.

Surely that would qualify me perfectly for missionary work!

[adopted scouser]

please don't insult, belittle, question and patronize at every turn what some people hold sacred.

I put it to you, that car loads of religious nutters wailing through huge PA systems in the middle of the night, 'belittles' and thoroughly 'insults' what a lot of people hold 'sacred' in that cemetery.

[Blue n White Rover]

I put it to you, that car loads of religious nutters wailing through huge PA systems in the middle of the night, 'belittles' and thoroughly 'insults' what a lot of people hold 'sacred' in that cemetery.

I agree to an extent that what happened that night should not have happened. A peaceful and quiet gathering is what should have happened but this turned out to be the complete opposite. I was speaking to my Dad earlier about this and he agreed in the sense that the PA system should not have been used. I went to the graveyard, but this was on Wednesday night, as I follow a different mosque, and we carried out a peaceful prayer and everything passed very smoothly without any trouble. It was Thursday night that caused the problem and I do not condone this and feel very ashamed that it happened.

Forgive who and for what? Surely you do not turn up in a graveyard at night to pray for forgiveness for members of this message board do you b&wr? .... err well on second thoughts maybe a few do need forgiving for their indescretions.

Anyway I'm sure the best way forward is to endeavour not to commit any wrong in the first place.

There is that better for your sensibilities tcj?

Talk of which Theno, I'm sure you'd be top of that pile

[colin]

I put it to you, that car loads of religious nutters wailing through huge PA systems in the middle of the night, 'belittles' and thoroughly 'insults' what a lot of people hold 'sacred' in that cemetery.

Absolutely. I don't think you'll get an arguement on that one.

Nowt to do with TCJ's comments on Thenodrog is it?

[adopted scouser]

Absolutely. I don't think you'll get an arguement on that one.

Nowt to do with TCJ's comments on Thenodrog is it?

No Col, and from an obviously intelligent bloke that's a little childish. I've been to many a funeral there, my comments were sincere.

[cletus]

I put it to you, that car loads of religious nutters wailing through huge PA systems in the middle of the night, 'belittles' and thoroughly 'insults' what a lot of people hold 'sacred' in that cemetery.

I think it just typifies the ignorant attitude of certain muslims in this town they now consider 'their own'. What will it be next? ???

[colin]

Just to clarify AS : That idiot having his religious disco there was belittling & insulting. Are we OK on that? Agreed?

Somewhere else completely is TCJ-Jones' comment on Thenodrog "You can believe what you want theno, but please don't insult, belittle, question and patronize at every turn what some people hold sacred. You don't always have to say what is on your mind, especially when it is extremely offensive."

The two are not connected in anyway shape or form. I'm quite clear in my own mind the two events are not connected and that any of my comments directed to one are not automatically directed to both.

Anyone who disagrees with me may be contacted by my legal represenatatives; "Sue Grabbitt & Runn" and may face legal action,

Cheers.

[broadsword]

Someone at the council actually approved this????

Surely not, I can barely believe that.

[tcj_jones]

Just to clarify, I do not condone the events of the other night. My post was in response to comments made by Theno, which I think he has now edited and toned down a bit, but where he calls into question B&WR's intelligence for following the religion he does and where he describes it as being 'nonsense' and followed by 'cranks and nutters', with reference to a 'mythological being'.

I'm not judging your views, I'm just saying that there is no need to express them in the way that you do because they can be considered extremely offensive by some on this board. Like I said before, you don't always have to say what is on your mind.

[SAS]

I cant believe this allowed, I find it funny as well ,cheeky buggers..

[cletus]

Someone at the council actually approved this????

Surely not, I can barely believe that.

Welcome to Blackburn with Darwen council!!!!

They literally fall over themselves in their efforts to please certain ethnic groups

They don`t seem to realise people of other ethnicities have family members buried in that cemetary too. Many of whom might be upset to hear that a bunch of people are traipsing all over their loved-ones graves in the dead of night whilst blasting out chants through a PA system.

In my view, it`s in poor taste & shows their lack of respect towards everybody else.

[thenodrog]

Just to clarify, I do not condone the events of the other night. My post was in response to comments made by Theno, which I think he has now edited and toned down a bit, but where he calls into question B&WR's intelligence for following the religion he does and where he describes it as being 'nonsense' and followed by 'cranks and nutters', with reference to a 'mythological being'.

I'm not judging your views, I'm just saying that there is no need to express them in the way that you do because they can be considered extremely offensive by some on this board. Like I said before, you don't always have to say what is on your mind.

Horses mouth.............

Not word for word of course but basically I compared the followers of both Islam and Catholicism and questioned why they continually feel the need (or are instructed) to ask some mythical being for 'forgiveness' and especially when they have prob done little wrong.

imo these religions would be much better placed in instructing their followers to do no wrong in the first place rather than offer a nice cleansing 'forgiveness' package just as long as their followers beat themselves up in angst both literally and emotionally over it on a regular basis. I'm sure there is much psychological damage the world over caused by infecting millions of people with a serious guilt complex at an early age.

btw ........ I edited my post simply cos tcj reacted as he did. As he's now chosen to explain further then so have I.

[tcj_jones]

BTW THeno, I saw the post above before it was edited. Quite some arrogance to tell me to 'pipe down'. Maybe you should ignore me, as first suggested, or perhaps you could just not unnececessarily offend people's religion in the first place?

[Stuart]

Just an observation but it seems to me that a number of times the topic of racism has appeared on numerous threads on this board - sometimes even when the thread is about football matters.

However, in none of these threads has a proper debate been had about racism and race relations. This is largely down to this fact that a football supporters message board is probably not the right place for this type of debate to take place. In fact, with any online forum where there is the facility for any old numpty to throw their two penneth in (such as me), quite quickly the debate breaks down with accusations and counter-accusations. I have to say though that there is a big dose of hypocrasy from certain members who will not listen (really listen) to anyone's opinion which does not meet with their own - particularly those who subscribe to the current 'politically correct' standpoint.

Usually the thread in question is either closed down or censored in some way to avoid repercussions for the site (see above for why this is).

Until people from all 'sides' actually take the time to discuss the issues / concerns / fears they have and be listened to by all other sides then we are never going to move forward.

I watched a YouTube 'conversation' a couple of years ago titled 'Race Hate Debate' in which a (self-proclaimed) American Red-neck set a challenge for anyone from an ethnic minority to have a sensible debate with him through video replies - each lasting about 10 minutes. This went on for about 15 videos with some very interesting viewpoints put forward from both sides and, actually, some common ground was reached in certain places. However things went downhill when the subject turned to Jewish people - at which point YouTube closed down the red-neck's account and deleted all his videos. Oddly they left all of the ethnic minority views up but only removed his posts. This just reinforced to me that rather than actually discuss the matter people (particularly institutions) prefer to censor and ignore.

For me, I would rather everyone respected each other, taking into account the laws, cultures and customs of the country in which we all live. Sadly, the minorities (on all sides) who display the wrong attitudes / behaviours are the ones which make the papers, since this plays on peoples' fears.

This makes them more likely to stay in their houses and read the papers, watch the news and read internet forums - because the media don't make money from Joe Public nipping next door for a cup of tea and international delicacy with his asian / chinese / black / white / australian neighbour.

I abhor the inappropriate use of the term 'racist': it's often banded about when people really want to duck an issue. Quite often the fear of being labelled a 'racist' is what enables normally rational people make the wrong decision (usually for political reasons). In reality those groups they are so desparate not to offend have neither been consulted nor are actually likely to be offended. Meanwhile those people with far-right political views are in their element because they then feel their views are correct and even justified.

No doubt someone will highlight a sentence from the above and pick it apart. Go ahead - you (and I) know who you are - but ultimately you are just adding fuel to the problem.