[Archived] Witton Park Last Night...

[colin]

Jisty,

A fine post. Agree with you that this is probably not the best place to discuss these issues.

As usual, a fairly innoccuous post asking about "what was that noise?" turns into a Muslim-bashing thread as best typified by Anti Euro Smiths fans of Aug 9 2009, at 19:25.

Then Thenodrog stomps in to have a pop at Blue & Wite Rover because the latter is a Muslim. No mention of what he himself beleives in which is a shame.

Cletus, your post earlier today at 18:28 was answered by your earlier post with a link to The Lancs Evening Telegraph. The PA system was not authorised by BwD BC

Cheers everyone

[Stuart]

Then Thenodrog stomps in to have a pop at Blue & Wite Rover because the latter is a Muslim. No mention of what he himself beleives in which is a shame.

I think that's a little short sited a view, Colin. IMHO, Theno was genuinely asking a question about BnWR's faith which, without the mud-throwing in between, may have been met with a sincere reply.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about, let's not vilify people for asking questions - even if they aren't packaged in a sensitive, PC wrapper. Questions are good and are the start of a better understanding of each other - and with a bit more empathy will likely breakdown some of the invisible barriers.

[colin]

I think that's a little short sited a view, Colin. IMHO, Theno was genuinely asking a question about BnWR's faith which, without the mud-throwing in between, may have been met with a sincere reply.

Jisty,

Given Thenodrog's long-standing and well known hatred/dislike/scepticism* (*delete as appropriate) of Muslims & Islam, I very much doubt your interpretation of his motives. He hasn't opened up his own religoius belief to examination and comment.

I'm an aethist. I think all religions are silly

Colin

[Al]

Jisty,

Given Thenodrog's long-standing and well known hatred/dislike/scepticism* (*delete as appropriate) of Muslims & Islam, I very much doubt your interpretation of his motives. He hasn't opened up his own religoius belief to examination and comment.

I'm an aethist. I think all religions are silly

Colin

I think it is fairly clear from his posts that he, like yourself, is an aethiest.

[broadsword]

Atheist, blinking heck! as in, not a theist.

Welcome to Blackburn with Darwen council!!!!

They literally fall over themselves in their efforts to please certain ethnic groups

They don`t seem to realise people of other ethnicities have family members buried in that cemetary too. Many of whom might be upset to hear that a bunch of people are traipsing all over their loved-ones graves in the dead of night whilst blasting out chants through a PA system.

In my view, it`s in poor taste & shows their lack of respect towards everybody else.

Don't just moan about it, get onto the council and give them the mother of all thick ears.

It was probably only green-lighted because they didn't think anyone would dare complain. Or maybe they just didn't think.

[thenodrog]

........... He attended the graveyard very frequently to pray for those who have left us. He also went there on this Special night.

............. These are our beliefs and I'm sure many people here will respect that.

I respect people's beliefs to an extent Blue and white rover, but much less when they are based on nothing but hearsay How do you know for a fact what He did? If he really did then I'm damned sure that He didn't go with a loudspeaker. Nor for that matter would He sit atop a mosque with one either.

To sound off in a cemetary with a loudspeaker during the day would be completely and wholly out of order and highly disrespectful in this country but to do it at night just beggars belief and makes me question the motives.

btw I do criticise religion for sure but I'm not criticising your religion directly as much as questioning what appears to be the increasingly modern interpretation of it.

[Blue n White Rover]

I respect people's beliefs to an extent Blue and white rover, but much less when they are based on nothing but hearsay How do you know for a fact what He did? If he really did then I'm damned sure that He didn't go with a loudspeaker. Nor for that matter would He sit atop a mosque with one either.

To sound off in a cemetary with a loudspeaker during the day would be completely and wholly out of order and highly disrespectful in this country but to do it at night just beggars belief and makes me question the motives.

btw I do criticise religion for sure but I'm not criticising your religion directly as much as questioning what appears to be the increasingly modern interpretation of it.

It has been quoted in many Hadith's that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) attended the graveyard on that night. I have laready said that the loudspeaker should not have been used that night. It was completely disrespectful towards those families who have their loved ones in that Cemetery, as well as to the local community. I have stated that before, so I don't see where you are getting at with all of this? What do you want me to say?

[Claytons Left Boot]

It has been quoted in many Hadith's that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) attended the graveyard on that night.

I don't wish to sound sceptical here, or to use an American phrase 'disrespect' your views/religion, but did you per chance have a camera with you?

[thenodrog]

I don't wish to sound sceptical here, or to use an American phrase 'disrespect' your views/religion, but did you per chance have a camera with you?

I'm not entirely sure that camera's are at all popular amongst members of the muslim faith. Something similar to Christian 'graven images' and pictures being insulting to Allah etc. It's why muslim decor and art is all tiles and mosaics and stuff. Maybe the younger ones with camera phones do not see it that way nowadays but I don't know for sure. But like the louspeaker stuff and money lending / interest charges I think ways around such doctrines have been found and adapted to suit.

Am I loosely correct there blue n white rover?

[roverandout]

can i also ask then why are loud speakers allowed on mosques, blaring out their prayers for all and sundry to hear? is that not disrespecting the public? how would muslims feel if a priest said mass over a loud speaker in church? and should these muslims women be allowed to cover their faces up? that smacks of ingnorance.

[Blue n White Rover]

can i also ask then why are loud speakers allowed on mosques, blaring out their prayers for all and sundry to hear? is that not disrespecting the public? how would muslims feel if a priest said mass over a loud speaker in church? and should these muslims women be allowed to cover their faces up? that smacks of ingnorance.

And why are church bells allowed to go off? What happened that night was disrespectful and I agree that it should not have happened. But those here that are slating Islam and Muslims should maybe take a closer look at their religion and see the faults in them. Once every Summer there is a march that takes place with people from the Sunday church that join them along my area at 9:00am in the morning. With members of my family as well as myself sometimes working night shifts, I find that inconsiderate, as well as the church bells that ring every Friday night untill 9:00pm. However, I don't kick up a fuss and complain about it because I respect the religion and turn a blind eye towards it.

Roverandout, if you had an ounce of knowledge inside you, maybe you'd know what the religion Islam states, but I guess you don't, so I won't bother replying in much detail towards you, I suggest you do some research and come back once you're capable of respecting other peoples beliefs and having a sensible discussion.

Theno, It's funny how you don't tell us what religion you follow, you seem to have dodged the question many a times, and then maybe we can see how many faults your religion has and we can compare. I'm sure that would be fascinating for you?

[roverandout]

blue and white rover i dont mean to sound offensive to your relgiion, it just annoys me some muslims fail to integrate into our society, when in rome do as the romans do etc

[American]

And Brits that move abroad do integrate?

[adopted scouser]

And Brits that move abroad do integrate?

Yes of course. We find an area of wasteland, provide culture, knowledge, law and order, a fiscal network and the world's most popular language.

Then you build the Whitehouse

[BuckyRover]

How very un-British to tell people how to act. I thought in Britain we appreciate liberty and the right of the indvidual to be themselves. We don't tell people how to dress and how to behave.

[thenodrog]

Theno, It's funny how you don't tell us what religion you follow, you seem to have dodged the question many a times, and then maybe we can see how many faults your religion has and we can compare. I'm sure that would be fascinating for you?

I've no need for religion Blue n white rover. I'm quite pleased that I do not need some mythical crutch to help me through my life and to help me differentiate right from wrong. Religion is for the intellectually and morally weak imo.

As for church bells going off in a Christian country? They can be a bit noisy if you live nearby I agree, but as for the right to ring them you should not even have to ask. If you move to the countryside and some early birdsong / cock crowing ticks you off whose fault is it? Yours or the birds? I'd quite understand an Islamic country frowning on christian bellringing but I'm afraid that as far as you may be concerned it's part and parcel of living in this country. Given the current birthrates you may soon be able to dictate from a majority position but until then you need to show some respect to the citizens of the country that you live in.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I've no need for religion Blue n white rover. I'm quite pleased that I do not need some mythical crutch to help me through my life and to help me differentiate right from wrong. Religion is for the intellectually and morally weak imo.

That's bang out of order.

[dopper69]

That's bang out of order.

But true.

Religious text belongs in the fiction section of any Library and as such those who seek comfort/approval from it may aswell pick up the latest from Harry Potter

EDIT -

I feel that there is no need for ANY type of religion in todays modern society. (Just before I get labbeled as 'anti Muslim')

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

So? I don't have a religion but to say that people who choose to have a religion are "intellectually and morally weak" is just... I can't even think of a word to describe it. It's beyond stereotypical.

[yoda]

That's bang out of order.

in your opinion!

[thenodrog]

That's bang out of order.

I was asked the question by blue and white rover and I answered it as truthfully as I could. Are you suggesting that I should have lied? "Tell the truth and shame the Devil" is quite apt in this context don't you think?

[cletus]

I`m not religious in the slightest. Nobody in my family is either, except my gran who passed away a few years back. She was a practicing christian & took alot of comfort from it.

I don`t mind anybody practicing religion, but i don`t want it ramming down my throat.

If i did want to practice a religion (& i don`t) i wouldn`t go stomping all over other people`s graves in the middle of the night with boom box in hand, to do it. I`d respectfully attend my local church, mosque, synagogue (or what-ever??) & have a quiet moment of respectful prayer.

What-ever next for the muslim population of Blackburn?? maybe next year they`ll come to the cemetary in those cars what make the front ends bounce up & down using hydraulics whilst blasting out the latest bangra tunes.......just to push the boundary a little bit more

[Stuart]

I'm quite surprised at the stance you are taking here Blue n White Rover. I can only assume you are getting fed up with feeling that you have to defend yourself. However, I strongly disagree with your recent post.

Britain is becoming a nation of Islam, and agnostic atheism (look even the CAPS button agrees) with churches about as able to keep afloat as public houses. The Christians in this country are being told they cannot display their faith (in particular the Christian crucifix) since it may offend others - yet other religions are quite openly allowed to display theirs.

Rev Kevin Logan writes a weekly piece in the LT which you might like to read as it often gives a good summary as to what a lot of people feel about modern Britain.

I did post that this was down to ignorance but with a post comparing church bells ringing at 9am (by the way, I can't remember the last time I heard a church bell ring in Blackburn - apart from the Cathedral) to a wailng made over loudspeakers then I have to object. Mind you anti-social behaviour, in general, is becoming the norm these days.

I'm sure you are trying to point out what you see as double-standards and hypocrasy. Well sorry mate but you are on shaky ground.

Btw, Theno, you are a WUM sometimes: 'there is no need for religion'? If there is no belief in anything beyond this life, then what is the (Please don't use that word again)ing point of anything? 'Religion is for the intellectually and morally weak'? Very poor and cliched statement IMHO.

[Blue n White Rover]

I`m not religious in the slightest. Nobody in my family is either, except my gran who passed away a few years back. She was a practicing christian & took alot of comfort from it.

I don`t mind anybody practicing religion, but i don`t want it ramming down my throat.

If i did want to practice a religion (& i don`t) i wouldn`t go stomping all over other people`s graves in the middle of the night with boom box in hand, to do it. I`d respectfully attend my local church, mosque, synagogue (or what-ever??) & have a quiet moment of respectful prayer.

What-ever next for the muslim population of Blackburn?? maybe next year they`ll come to the cemetary in those cars what make the front ends bounce up & down using hydraulics whilst blasting out the latest bangra tunes.......just to push the boundary a little bit more

A loudspeaker system was used, no one stomped over anyones graves and just for the record, it was those chavs, who aren't called "muslims" by the way, stomped all over the graves in Birmingham, now I guess that isn't disrespectful is it. So what's next for you? Get ######, rape a few women, kill a few guys whilst your at it, drive round bashing other peoples cars in whilst drunk, and just for that sense of satisfaction rob a few houses. Try looking a bit closer to home before you criticise "muslims"!

Oh and for the record, what would the rest do that don't blast out bangra tunes? Drive round in their Vauxhall Corsa's or their Ford Focus/Fiesta, with tinted windows blasting dance tunes. That's not pushing the boundry at all is it?

I'm quite surprised at the stance you are taking here Blue n White Rover. I can only assume you are getting fed up with feeling that you have to defend yourself. However, I strongly disagree with your recent post.

Britain is becoming a nation of Islam, and agnostic atheism (look even the CAPS button agrees) with churches about as able to keep afloat as public houses. The Christians in this country are being told they cannot display their faith (in particular the Christian crucifix) since it may offend others - yet other religions are quite openly allowed to display theirs.

Rev Kevin Logan writes a weekly piece in the LT which you might like to read as it often gives a good summary as to what a lot of people feel about modern Britain.

I did post that this was down to ignorance but with a post comparing church bells ringing at 9am (by the way, I can't remember the last time I heard a church bell ring in Blackburn - apart from the Cathedral) to a wailng made over loudspeakers then I have to object. Mind you anti-social behaviour, in general, is becoming the norm these days.

I'm sure you are trying to point out what you see as double-standards and hypocrasy. Well sorry mate but you are on shaky ground.

Btw, Theno, you are a WUM sometimes: 'there is no need for religion'? If there is no belief in anything beyond this life, then what is the (Please don't use that word again)ing point of anything? 'Religion is for the intellectually and morally weak'? Very poor and cliched statement IMHO.

I've come here and explained what the night was all about, and i've said it before and i'll say it again, it was wrong what happened that night and the loudspeaker system should not have been used. I was quoting the Church Bells because one of the posters mentioned the Islamic prayers being prayed on loudspeaker at a few mosques on a day-to-day basis. Nothing to do with what happened that night.

[thenodrog]

Oh and for the record, what would the rest do that don't blast out bangra tunes? Drive round in their Vauxhall Corsa's or their Ford Focus/Fiesta, with tinted windows blasting dance tunes. That's not pushing the boundry at all is it?

Personally I'd like to see a lot of them in the cemetary too Blue n white! Coming away from Ewood park yesterday and some numpty had his stereo on full blast in the traffic queue with the windows down of course. How thick is that?

I've come here and explained what the night was all about, and i've said it before and i'll say it again, it was wrong what happened that night and the loudspeaker system should not have been used. I was quoting the Church Bells because one of the posters mentioned the Islamic prayers being prayed on loudspeaker at a few mosques on a day-to-day basis. Nothing to do with what happened that night.

But why does anybody need a loudspeaker to pray for goodness sake? Is Allah hard of hearing? Or is bawling into a loudspeaker a sign of greater devotion? Unless all the long dead muslims who died before loudspeakers were invented have all gone to hell or wherever why is there any need to use loudspeakers now?