[Archived] Football Manager 2010

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Any bugs on new game or is this pretty much the released version?

[American]

Well, Rovers have 0 transfer budget, so that part is accurate!

Playing QPR right now. Definitely uses more memory than 2008, but I'm liking it.

[Glenn]

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oh, an the rest of the offer is available after today, it's just ordering today means you make EVEN MORE commission for us.

[Mc Love]

And no blue and white halved shirt?!

[BiggusLaddus]

Any bugs on new game or is this pretty much the released version?

Seems pretty good so far. There are a few things that have been pointed out on the official forums but nothing too bad. Keepers not making an effort to save penalties (resulting in very high shoot-out scores).

Seems to be a big improvement over last years release in that respect. Although I suppose time will tell if there are any issues like the game crashing and corrupting 12mths in if you selected any Italian lower leagues, etc.

New interface has loads more information and is taking a little bit of getting used to as the bits I used to rely on in previous games are not as quickly accessible. The whole game is much faster. Processing is almost instant, and the non-highlight parts of the matches are very quick (perhaps too quick to be able to use any of the new analysis tools?).

All in all, quite impressed so far and hope that the full game lives up to it. This is from someone who promised himself to never buy another FM game after the shambles last year - but I buckled at the £17.99 Zavvi offer.

[LeChuck]

SI are going to make a patch available for download on the day of release which fixes bugs people have found.

There are a few strange and annoying ones regarding box ticking in the tactics screen. I've also written on the SI forums about some data mistakes they've made with us (e.g. Chimbonda not being able to play left back).

[Hughesy]

Is the new game going through steam again this year or not?

[Tim Southampton Rover]

I hope not because it's blummin' annoying.

[tcj_jones]

The new version looks great. The emphasis on the tactical side of the game is absolute brilliant. You have so much freedom now in this respect. I'm a massive fan.

However, the stats given to certain players are very questionable. Names that immediately spring to mind are Darren Bent, Kenwyne Jones and Gabriel Agbonlahor, who are all absolute pants.

Also, they still have the annoying press conference thing where, if you a make a comment regarding a player, he will stupidly over-react. I signed a new player, who only spoke Spanish, and the guy asked if I'd get the other Spanish speaker in my squad to make him feel more at home. I said I would and the new signing became unhappy... Annoying that the player's retain the same stupid level of sensitivity. I just find it best to ignore all the questions. Not worth the hassle.

As far as Rovers are concerned, Chimbonda doesn't play left back, Samba isn't as good as he should be, nor Dunn or Di Santo (although you can forgive that one as he is young, on loan and only just really come good), Pedersen is, YET AGAIN, far too good, as is Andrews, quite bizarely (also, he only plays as AMC and nothing else).

But yeah, overall the game looks superb.

[LeChuck]

The new version looks great. The emphasis on the tactical side of the game is absolute brilliant. You have so much freedom now in this respect. I'm a massive fan.

...

Andrews, quite bizarely (also, he only plays as AMC and nothing else).

The idea behind the tactical system is that you have less freedom, but it's just far easier to do stuff. Instead of moving loads of sliders about between 1-20, the game creates them for you depending on what you tell it. It's actually for more restrictive than the old version, but is designed to help new players set-up tactics more easily than the old system.

All the tactics creator and touchline shouts are doing is adjusting those sliders for you. So, for example, if you shout "keep possession", the sliders will be adjusted to short passing, low tempo, defensive etc. It's just simplifying the whole thing but doesn't allow for the vast range of differences the old system did - which is why 'hardcore' FM players are using the old system still.

It's the same with the individual player instructions, all they're doing is moving those sliders to pre-set values depending on what selections you make in the creator. Personally I think it's a good time-saving device so I'm going to use it to begin with, but I think I could see myself getting frustrated with the lack of control over happenings eventually. There is nothing in the new system you couldn't do in the old, but there are things in the old you can't do in the new.

Re Andrews...he's down as a natural CM, AMC is his second position. He also has DM as a competent position, I think a couple of others might be there too (RM and RB possibly).

[Clitherover]

downloaded the vanilla demo yesterday and have to say it's the first one i've actually liked since 2007, will deffo get the full game.

[G Somerset Rover]

There are a few strange and annoying ones regarding box ticking in the tactics screen. I've also written on the SI forums about some data mistakes they've made with us (e.g. Chimbonda not being able to play left back).

Oh crap so we're all going to have to go straight into the market for a left back when managing Rovers?

Edit: I've just remembered Givet! And footy man usually overate Olsson. On Gamst he is forever regarded as our best player on the game..it becomes highly annoying year after year.

[Big Fat Sam]

Well its been downloaded and its alright but I had hoped the tactics would be more in depth.

Started as Rovers, sold quite a few players: Jacobsen, Roberts, Andrews, Kish its impossible now to get instant cash which is good but as I had to sell most of them on long term pay deals, JW won't give me all of the money the scrooge. I hope the option to get back the budget is in the real game.

I have managed to sign one or two though, Beckham has come in for £425K bargain and only 47K a week. For love nor money can I get a left back though of decent quality??? Next signing will hopefully be Riquleme he's considering his contract as we speak and he'll look good in the hole. Then I'll find out if JW will stretch to the extra £2million over my budget (most of its over 24 months, you never know)

Loans would appear to be very expensive with spuds wanting 2.2Million for Dos Santos (ridculous).

No training changes or scouting which is dissappointting as neither are even semi realistic. I'd really hoped they would improve this section especially scouting.

We're playing Sam's 433/451 formation with Di Santo/Kalinic up top, Di Santo scored a 35 yard screamer against Milan with Samba being out muscled by Pato for there 89th min equealiser. Kalinic is making a slow start 1 in 4 but two assists avg 6.98. Di Santo though is not bad for someone with 10 for long shots he's bloody good at them. Chelsea though will not extend his loan.

Who though is the Rovers scout for FM??? I would like to question one or two: Hoillet, Kalinic (str = 16????) Dunn (he's always be pants on FM) and especially Samba. He's got it dead right with N'zonzi though scored three in pre-season along side Beckham and has two in three in league already. I love swapping the midfielder roles in FM deep lying playmaker with ball winning box to box man more advanced. I may not be an expert but we're sitting pretty in 4th at present and we'll only move higher!!!!!

PS Beckham and Samba are an awesome set-piece combination.

[tcj_jones]

LeChuck, thanks for that post. I was going on very quick first impressions, but you are right. I need to give it a proper bash before getting too excited. I just love the idea of assigning playing roles like 'deep lying ball player' etc.

The loan system in the game is excellent in the sense that now you seem to be able to bring in top players on loan deals with a view to making it permanent. However, they seem to want exorbitant fees up front from clubs they must know cannot afford the fee.

For those looking to start thei game quickly, a few players you might decide to bring in:

Di Maria (£4.2m): really good, quick left winger playing at Benfica.

Van der Vaart: can be brought in on a loan with a view to buy. Otherwise, can be bought for around £6.75m - £7.5m.

Guti: loan or cheap fee.

Denilson: loan.

Viera: loan

Boriello: loan / loan with view to buy for £6m.

[Big Fat Sam]

Have you got a left back for Rovers????

We could all have a compo to see who can get the most money for Keith.

[DeadlyDirk]

Okay wasn't going to mix work and pleasure but here goes, I do the ratings for FM so here are a few reasons for certain players. The match engine and the game in general is very in depth this year, some players may not look that good to the naked eye or may in fact look poor but then will play completley differently.

Chimbonda - The Tottenham researcher rates him, I'm not allowed to change him immediately upon him joining the club as it suggests I know a lot better about a player that someone else has watched a lot longer. As I said in the official forum, he'll have his positions changed as soon as I can. For the record he should be competent there and you can quickly train him to be accomplished to do alright there. (To be honest though he had struggled before he joined us so isn't that great anyway even if he could play left back.)

Pedersen - Yes he does still look a bit too good I'll agree, but he is something like our 7th best player in terms of CA so he isn't too far out. I've taken about 20 CA points off him in the last 12 months but I just can't seem to keep up with his rapid decline! To be fair though he has a lot of hidden attributes which means although he has the talent he won't nessicarily produce it that often. (Kind of like real life.)

Kalinic - Again he's rated by a previous researcher and I can't change him yet, enjoy him while you can because unless he improves in real life he'll be getting lowered a great deal!!

Salgado - Rated by the Madrid researcher, why he has 15 for pace and acceleration? I have no idea?? Maybe everyone at Madrid is as quick as Tugay and he's comparing him to that. (Tugay would probably gas Salgado on second thoughts)

Andrews - He's one that looks better than he is, there are around 16/17 other Rovers players better than him in terms of CA. Are there any attributes in particular you feel are wrong? He only just breaks into the minimum overall ratings for a squad player as it is!!

Dunny - It hurts me seeing Dunny's ratings so I'll hold my hands up here. The ratings are based on last season where he spent most of it in his wheel chair and when he was on the pitch I don't think he was at his best. The majority of us wasn't even sure if we should persevere with him given his contract situation, how times change in a couple of months now he is injury free. Now he is playing further up he looks fantastic again. I can assure you he'll be improved probably more than any other Rovers player but last season he couldn't justify better ratings.

Di Santo - Again he's rated by the Chelsea researcher, luckily I'll probably get to increase him and send him back to Chelsea, lucky me!

Samba - He's our joint best player on the game and seriously try playing the game with him. (I've had the fortune of playing the game for a long time now and have won the league and several cups with Samba at the heart of the defence.) He really is a good player on the game, you don't always have to listen to everything your scouts tell you. Just trust me, he'll do well for you. Are there any attributes in particular you guys think are completley wrong? Typo's do get made and sometimes get past several checks!

Hoilett and N'Zonzi - These have again been done by their previous clubs researchers but again with Samba I won the league playing N'Zonzi every game and Hoilett played around half on the wing. I managed to get a very late improvement to these two based on the first 4 or 5 games of the season which was very lucky as it wouldn't normally happen but basically when they first came into my file they were on the league 1 level of player. It's only really extreme circumstances which can cause these changes, I can't just say Chimbonda's played left back for us twice (Which is all had had when the data was locked) please make him accomplished.

Finances - A couple of people have complained about the lack of a transfer budget, I thought it was common knowledge among us that we don't have any cash to spend!

Positions - For position settings for certain players you need to check their profile because some people are saying the likes of Andrews and Samba can only play one position when it's quite the opposite.

Then just to back up my point, one person brought up Agbonlahor, Bent and Jones. Again perhaps to the naked eye they don't look that great but the way their attributes work together along with hidden ones mean they are very good players. In my games Agbonlahor and Bent will get 20 league goals a season,(+ Cups) so to increase them even more would mean they'd be banging in 30 a season which is unrealistic. Jones will get 12-15 a season and is almost unstoppable in the air as a target man.

Just on a side note, I know it's frustrating with things like Chimbonda and changes not happening straight away but for what it's worth the Real Madrid researcher has been allowed by the Spanish researcher to change 15 or so of Ronaldo's attributes despite the fact that the Man Utd researcher has watched him week in week out for the last 6 years - An absolute ###### take and the reason why SI 99% of the time don't let us change things without seeing them for say 15-20 games minimum.

I hope that clears a few things up, now that I've taken the hood off I'm happy to answer any queries. I'm not some pig headed moron, if something is notably wrong then I'm happy to change it. Hope you like the addition of the new Rovers legends this year. Oh and finally for the record I've only been doing this a little over a year so don't blame me for any previous errors if you think there were any.

[LeChuck]

Cheers for that Dirk, interesting stuff.

Is there any reason Samba isn't at least 'competent' up front though? Also I think he's 'competent' as a right back if I remember correctly - I don't think he's ever played there in his life!

Aside from that I think it's pretty accurate. You've done the right thing with the finances, I've read elsewhere the budgets for other clubs and not many clubs have money to spend.

[DeadlyDirk]

Cheers for that Dirk, interesting stuff.

Is there any reason Samba isn't at least 'competent' up front though? Also I think he's 'competent' as a right back if I remember correctly - I don't think he's ever played there in his life!

Aside from that I think it's pretty accurate. You've done the right thing with the finances, I've read elsewhere the budgets for other clubs and not many clubs have money to spend.

I haven't actually downloaded the demo (I've had the latest beta version which is almost the full game so little point) so I can't 100% confirm that he isn't competent up front. All I can say is that he SHOULD be competent up front and in the last file I had he definitely was. I can't see any reason why SI would have changed it and I certainly haven't requested it to be removed.

His right back setting has been changed to akward. I know he has never played there for us but for him to originally have a competent setting it must mean that his previous researcher saw him play there a fair few times. Since he's never played there for us that's why it's been reduced to awkward.

If you could double check and even perhaps post a screenshot that would be most helpful. In fact now that a few of you have said he looks poor in the game you've got me worried that someone has changed him without my knowledge. If someone could post screenshots from the demo then it'll speed up the process, otherwise I'll double check and download the demo when I get home from work which won't be until 2am or so. Work isn't too keen on me downloading 1GB files!!

[DeadlyDirk]

I haven't actually downloaded the demo (I've had the latest beta version which is almost the full game so little point) so I can't 100% confirm that he isn't competent up front. All I can say is that he SHOULD be competent up front and in the last file I had he definitely was. I can't see any reason why SI would have changed it and I certainly haven't requested it to be removed.

His right back setting has been changed to akward. I know he has never played there for us but for him to originally have a competent setting it must mean that his previous researcher saw him play there a fair few times. Since he's never played there for us that's why it's been reduced to awkward.

If you could double check and even perhaps post a screenshot that would be most helpful. In fact now that a few of you have said he looks poor in the game you've got me worried that someone has changed him without my knowledge. If someone could post screenshots from the demo then it'll speed up the process, otherwise I'll double check and download the demo when I get home from work which won't be until 2am or so. Work isn't too keen on me downloading 1GB files!!

Just to confirm, I've had someone check Samba and he definitely has a competent rating for a forward. Below is the screenshot to prove it.

[LeChuck]

You are indeed correct.

I'll explain why I got confused...they've changed the colours round! Last year orange was 'competent' and 'yellow' awkward. Makes a little bit more sense I guess (progressing towards green), but it will take some getting used to.

Edit: Just out of interest Dirk, is it you that sets the wages for our players then? No follow-up questions coming whatever your answer, just curious!

[RibbleValleyRover]

Played a couple of hours on it, I like the cleaner interface but its going to take some time to get used to. What i also like is that it seems to run a lot smoother on my old computer than 09. The tactics system also will take some time getting used to but I really like the idea of a wizard. I'll probably use the wizard for the base then make a few minor tweaks.

With 2009 I think they made it too difficult in terms of getting tactics to work and consistency, I won trophies in 2009 but at times i found the game far from enjoyable. It looks like 2010 has gone back to basics a bit and hopefully the engine holds up in a long term career.

I'll probably buy 2010 on the evidence of this demo.

[BiggusLaddus]

Samba - He's our joint best player on the game and seriously try playing the game with him. (I've had the fortune of playing the game for a long time now and have won the league and several cups with Samba at the heart of the defence.) He really is a good player on the game, you don't always have to listen to everything your scouts tell you. Just trust me, he'll do well for you. Are there any attributes in particular you guys think are completley wrong? Typo's do get made and sometimes get past several checks!

Hoilett and N'Zonzi - These have again been done by their previous clubs researchers but again with Samba I won the league playing N'Zonzi every game and Hoilett played around half on the wing. I managed to get a very late improvement to these two based on the first 4 or 5 games of the season which was very lucky as it wouldn't normally happen but basically when they first came into my file they were on the league 1 level of player. It's only really extreme circumstances which can cause these changes, I can't just say Chimbonda's played left back for us twice (Which is all had had when the data was locked) please make him accomplished.

I've got no issues with Samba's attributes, but if the scouts are to be believed then his PA isn't all that good and he won't improve much. From what we've seen in real life over the last couple of years I think that is a bit low.

N'Zonzi and Di Santo are the same IMO, but I take your point that you didn't get to rate them.

Pedersen is about right now really. His attributes seem to be ok but he really doesn't play very well (vlow consistency??).

[DeadlyDirk]

You are indeed correct.

I'll explain why I got confused...they've changed the colours round! Last year orange was 'competent' and 'yellow' awkward. Makes a little bit more sense I guess (progressing towards green), but it will take some getting used to.

Edit: Just out of interest Dirk, is it you that sets the wages for our players then? No follow-up questions coming whatever your answer, just curious!

To an extent I do, the overall wage bill will be more or less correct because these figures are made public but while some information is made available about certain players a lot of them are educated guesses. Like I said the overall wages will be correct but for example if say McCarthy is on 35k a week in the game and Pedersen is on 30k a week it could be that in real life McCarthy is on 40k and Pedersen is on 25k if you get what I mean. (Both add up to 65k) SI then will make suggestions and changes based on what they know from people higher up and will often make changes if they have better sources than I do.

This year especially I think the overall wage bill will be more accurate and realistic but that also makes it a lot more difficult. You'll find that the club is running at a loss every month now and that to have any chance of bringing players in you will probably need to sell say 5m to spend 2.5m. Like I said perhaps not the most fun but when you look at our financial dealings over the last couple of seasons it probably isn't too far off.

[DeadlyDirk]

I've got no issues with Samba's attributes, but if the scouts are to be believed then his PA isn't all that good and he won't improve much. From what we've seen in real life over the last couple of years I think that is a bit low.

N'Zonzi and Di Santo are the same IMO, but I take your point that you didn't get to rate them.

Pedersen is about right now really. His attributes seem to be ok but he really doesn't play very well (vlow consistency??).

I don't want to spoil too much for everyone so if you want exact numbers feel free to PM me but Samba has a PA which means he can be a first team player for a top four club. (Not quite a world class player)

Di Santo is a real shame because he is rated so low that by the time he gets better he'll have long gone back to Chelsea. He was rated by the Chelsea researcher though who only saw him make a handful of sub appearances for them so it's fair enough to see why he isn't rated that highly.

N'Zonzi will definitely be in line for an increase given his current form but as you acknowledge I couldn't change him as he was rated by his previous researcher. I managed to get his CA boosted slightly due to the fact he had made such a big impression early on but it would have been a bit biased of me to suddenly claim he's going to be a world beater after a few games. (Even if I think he will be an excellent player already!)

Pedersen is a bit of both, his consistency has been lowered as well as his attributes even if he is still a little too good. (There's guidelines to follow so he'll probably come down some more and the likes of Dunny going up.) He's very hard to rate though Pedersen, sometimes I feel he's on the verge of showing his old goalscoring touch and he's simply unlucky/inconsistent at times, like the volley he had last week which on another day would have gone in but I certainly can't keep giving him the benefit of the doubt. As I said before though over the last 12 months he's been lowered around 15 points or so, I don't want to completley butcher him!

Like I said before though there is so much more to the game than simple CA and PA. The match engine doesn't actually use CA when it determines results or how the game plays out, it uses attributes. So someone with a CA of say 120 can perform much better than a player with a CA of 140 if used correctly. (E.G A player with the 140 CA might use up a lot of his attribute points with stamina, corners, crossing, penalties etc but if he's not taking set pieces for you and you limit his forward runs then these almost become useless attributes where as perhaps the 120 CA player might be poor at corners, crossing, penalties etc but may be an excellent tackler and passer who is perfect for playing a holding role and giving it short even if overall he is a worse player.)

I certainly don't know all of the ins and outs of the game and there are definitely better people at playing the game than me but I comfortably have won titles with Samba and N'Zonzi being key parts of the squad. The new tactics engine is brilliant for this, just use players to their strengths and avoid their weaknesses.

On the whole scale of things the English research team have taken a long think this year about getting players a bit more in line and their PA's in line etc. We now try and compare highly rated potential players to current players at their peak. In the past a promising striker would often be given a 150/160/170+PA without anyone batting an eyelid but over the past 12 months or so a lot more work has gone in and we'll now look at people like Defoe, Crouch and Bent etc as English forwards at their peak and say is this promising youngster really going to be 20 or so points better than they are now? The truth is probably not so we've been a lot more harsher/accurate? lately on making sure there are not so many players who go on to be world beaters. In short a player with say a PA of 140 is now a lot better than they were perhaps last year on a worldwide scale.

[tcj_jones]

I've got to say, I'm finding it difficult to get my head around this attribute ratings vs hidden ratings thing. Darren Bent has a first touch of 10, finishing 13 and heading of 13. This is one of England's most prolific strikers over the past five seasons. Am i not right in thinking that ratings around 10 - 13 are that of Championship players, and not even top end Championship players?

So are we to ignore the attribute ratings and buy players on name reputation? Technically, Bent and Jones, attribute ratings wise, are absolutely awful as far as Premier League players go. I find it odd that they'll still su[pposedly bang on x number of goals a season though because of some hidden ratings...

PS, thanks loads for the posts on this thread DeadlyDirk, very interesting and much appreciated. I had no idea you were one of the games researchers!