[Archived] Football Manager 2010

[RibbleValleyRover]

I've got to say, I'm finding it difficult to get my head around this attribute ratings vs hidden ratings thing. Darren Bent has a first touch of 10, finishing 13 and heading of 13. This is one of England's most prolific strikers over the past five seasons. Am i not right in thinking that ratings around 10 - 13 are that of Championship players, and not even top end Championship players?

So are we to ignore the attribute ratings and buy players on name reputation? Technically, Bent and Jones, attribute ratings wise, are absolutely awful as far as Premier League players go. I find it odd that they'll still su[pposedly bang on x number of goals a season though because of some hidden ratings...

I used to look for players with 15's, maybe 14's or 13's if they are young in the key stats for positions if i was managed a team in the prem or another team at the highest league level.

Saying that i have had players who had stats that i thought were poor but they outperformed their stats, i had a youngster on the books that had a finishing of 12 and never really developed much as he got older and he banged the goals in.

On the stats topic DeadlyDirk, have the stats been changed like 09 in terms of players that are two footed? IIRC i read a thread on the official forums or maybe the dugout about players that are two footed had their stats reduced slightly, so whilst they had lower stats the fact they were two footed made up for that in the engine and they performed better than their stats suggest.

[DeadlyDirk]

I've got to say, I'm finding it difficult to get my head around this attribute ratings vs hidden ratings thing. Darren Bent has a first touch of 10, finishing 13 and heading of 13. This is one of England's most prolific strikers over the past five seasons. Am i not right in thinking that ratings around 10 - 13 are that of Championship players, and not even top end Championship players?

So are we to ignore the attribute ratings and buy players on name reputation? Technically, Bent and Jones, attribute ratings wise, are absolutely awful as far as Premier League players go. I find it odd that they'll still su[pposedly bang on x number of goals a season though because of some hidden ratings...

PS, thanks loads for the posts on this thread DeadlyDirk, very interesting and much appreciated. I had no idea you were one of the games researchers!

Bent is actually one player there is a slight problem with that is knocking off a few of his attribute points when the game starts due to his CA not matching his attributes, I'm hoping this one will be sorted for the release but I guess that will come down to whether changes can still be made, I know it's been reported.

Regardless though as I said we've tried to balance out the database a lot more this year and not have over the top attributes for certain players. (There are exceptions, the Italians still seem to unfortunately do their own thing and the odd player will from England will still slip through.) 13 though really is a decent level for finishing, it would be described as 'good' between us researchers.(Anything above that in the mid teens would be described as very good and high teens/20 world class) This combined though with his excellent pace, decent strength, off the ball movement, jumping and good heading means he'll get as I said 20+ league goals a season. I'm not sure if he's even scored quite that many in real life, I know he's usually in the high teens. For what it's worth though I personally would have set his finishing at 15 but then he'll have been rated by the Tottenham researcher when he was playing second fiddle for them.

It's not like Bent has a tremendous all round game, he has great pace, good movement and is a decent/good finisher, you won't see him plucking balls out of the sky with a tremendous first touch and technique or setting up a hatful of chances. (Things like finishing for a striker carry a lot of points, adding say 1 point to his finishing might knock his CA up 3 or 4 points making him an England regular which of course he isn't.) For every chance he scores he'll miss two although he's on a good run at the moment. If he was any better then one of the top 4 would be after him or in the least Spuds would have kept him.

Jones didn't have the best of years last year so is perhaps a few points under rated but again his strengths in real life are well displayed in the game I think. (His pace is a little low) He has unrivalled strength and jumping which makes him hard to beat in the air creating numerous assists and direct goals for himself. 10 for finishing is average on a worldwide scale so don't just think about the premiership here and don't think of average as bad. It's not like in real life you see him dribbling past players and then sending the keeper the wrong way with crisp finishes into the corners, he's more of an old fashioned battering ram of a striker a bit like Heskey who gets a lot of his goals through his fantastic physical attributes combined with average technical and mental attributes.

As for the hidden attributes they are basically what they sound like. Attributes that a player has which are unknown to the naked eye. Players can be unprofessional, disloyal, lack ambition, bottle under pressure, fail to adapt to a foreign country, lack consistency, fail to perform in important games etc plus many more.

There are only really 3 ways to find out these sort of attributes. Continually scouting a player who will then report if they are unprofessional, unsporting, undetermined etc. (Obviously you then have to decide on whether or not your scout knows what he's on about - The backroom advice has been developed this year so you can tell which members of staff provide reliable information a lot easier in terms of how long they've been at the club, whether other staff agree with them etc)

Another way is by finding out the hard way which is buying the player and then seeing him struggle. (Basically if you buy a player who looks good on paper but performs badly it probably means that he has some bad hidden attributes and you should have studied a bit harder before buying him. Vice versa players who don't always look so special may be model professionals who give everything and perform above expectations)

Then there's the long way and I'd imagine the way managers in real life buy there players 90& of the time unless they are rushed into it, combined with your scout reports you then need to spend time looking at the player yourself, don't rush into signings, see how he performs over 15 games or so, check his form, does he have good and bad games or a steady consistent performer? What about the bigger games, how did he perform in them, has he done well in a foreign country before? How has he progressed throughout his career or has he plodded along not getting any better suggesting perhaps he isn't that professional?

In real life you could think of Kalinic as an example, he must have some talent to score the goals he did for Hajduk and be selected for Croatia as well as being wanted by other premiership club so maybe he is one of those players that takes a while to adapt or is not very professional? (Here's hoping he's just saving himself for the last 3/4 of the season!! )

I used to look for players with 15's, maybe 14's or 13's if they are young in the key stats for positions if i was managed a team in the prem or another team at the highest league level.

Saying that i have had players who had stats that i thought were poor but they outperformed their stats, i had a youngster on the books that had a finishing of 12 and never really developed much as he got older and he banged the goals in.

On the stats topic DeadlyDirk, have the stats been changed like 09 in terms of players that are two footed? IIRC i read a thread on the official forums or maybe the dugout about players that are two footed had their stats reduced slightly, so whilst they had lower stats the fact they were two footed made up for that in the engine and they performed better than their stats suggest.

Sort of, basically two footed players in game and in real life have a terrific advantage as they don't have to constantly work the ball on to their stronger foot and can pass/shoot/cross well with either. Where as a one footed player may be very dangerous on his right but useless on his left meaning although he has say 16 for finishing who cares if you constantly show him on to his weaker foot? A two footed player with say 13 for finishing can be a lot more dangerous over the course of a season.

Being two footed uses up a lot of attribute points so on the other side of that coin is people who are one footed can look exceptionally good in terms of attributes but you'll often find for everything good they do they'll also make a mistake due to them either misplacing a pass with their weaker foot or making a mistake by trying to work it on to their stronger foot. The match engine has improved this year because last year it didn't make as much of difference as it should have, people like Palombo etc who looked amazing because they were one footed and still performed pretty well. This year should be a little different.

It might not be a perfect way of doing things but its better than seeing players who can't use their left foot for toffee bang in 30 yarders with it which would probably be the other way of doing things. (Either that or each individual attribute would have to have a RF and LF setting which would be very difficult to research for a lot of players and very time consuming.)

So yes a player on the game that can use both feet will perform a lot better than someone of similiar talent who is predominantly one footed. Especially players in the centre. You all watch games in the premiership obviously and although many player prefer to use their stronger foot, the majority of players at the highest can use their weaker foot decently. Lower down the leagues players often have a 'swinger' for a weaker foot but I'd say 75% of premiership players can at least pass the ball 20 yards or so decently with either foot and can get a decent shot off inside the box with either foot. Therefore the majority of players won't have less than say 9/20 for their weaker foot.

Basically anyone with 'Very Weak' for their weaker foot means they can barely use it to even dribble let alone kick it 5 yards so these players should be quite rare and lower down the leagues. Otherwise they'd have to be very very good to make it at the top as a one footed player. There's quite a few people who will choose to use their stronger foot and avoid using their weaker foot but off the top of my head I can't think of many top players who when forced can't at least kick the ball decently with their weaker foot without spannering it into the crowd. Ok maybe Big Jase but he does that with his right too

I'm boring myself now and I could go on forever! I hope you all enjoy the game cos I've been playing it for about 2 months now bwahahaha! Keeping all the secrets and features in has been tough! (I'm part of the testing team too.)

[tcj_jones]

Thank you very much for clearing that up, DD. Much appreciated!

[sussexrover]

Good work on the extra points for Hoillett DD. Just completed the half season demo and whilst not performing spectacularly overall (ended 13th) once I settled on a counter attacking 4-4-2 with Kalinic as a target man and Hoillett using his pace to feed on his flick-ons I went on a really good run. By the end of the demo Kalinic had 8 goals and Hoillett had 11. Interestingly, Aaron Doran had nailed down my right wing spot too - although I guess once I download the initial patch he will have gone to MK Dons on loan.

[Big Fat Sam]

Thanks Deadly.

Smba's playing fine as in 09 so no complaints there, anymore. Dunny's always been crap and I'll just have to sell him in the game, even back in the day he was awful. Can I ask do you rate the coaches as well?? because Roden is still at the club and his stats are awful for one of the best SS coaches in the game.

Curiously on training have they moved crossing away from set-pieces?? I've never understood why its in there and maks creating good kids who can dribble and cross rather hard because of the way its set-up.

[G Somerset Rover]

Samba - He's our joint best player on the game and seriously try playing the game with him. (I've had the fortune of playing the game for a long time now and have won the league and several cups with Samba at the heart of the defence.) He really is a good player on the game, you don't always have to listen to everything your scouts tell you. Just trust me, he'll do well for you. Are there any attributes in particular you guys think are completley wrong? Typo's do get made and sometimes get past several checks!

Thanks for all your info DD - makes very interesting reading.

Just out of curiosity, unless I've missed it, who is our joint best player on the game alongside Samba? Robbo, Givet?

[Cocker]

I have ordered the PSP version from Shopto for £23 - cant argue with that.

Hopefully some of the bugs that were in last years PSP version have been fixed.

[Takemyhandsboss]

I have ordered the PSP version from Shopto for £23 - cant argue with that.

Hopefully some of the bugs that were in last years PSP version have been fixed.

Day off today and in preparation for Friday, I know to get 7 stars your coaches have to have the following....

Strength: 18 Fitness

Aerobic: 18 Fitness

Goalkeeping: 18 Goalkeeping

Tactics: 18 Tactical

Defending: 18 Defending and 18 Tactical OR

19 Defending and 14 Tactical OR

20 Defending and 10 Tactical

Ball Control: 18 Technique and 18 Mental OR

19 Technique and 14 Mental OR

20 Technique and 10 Mental

Attacking: 18 Attacking and 18 Tactical OR

19 Attacking and 14 Tactical OR

20 Attacking and 10 Tactical

Shooting: 18 Technique and 18 Attacking OR

19 Technique and 14 Attacking OR

20 Technique and 10 Attacking

Set Pieces: 17 Technique and 39 (mental + attacking) OR

18 Technique and 36 (mental + attacking) OR

19 Technique and 33 (mental + attacking) OR

20 Technique and 30 (mental + attacking)

but does anyone know what its important for youth coaches to have? Futher is it more important for your coaches to be 7 stars or to be more 'rounded' in terms of man management, determination etc at the expense of coaching stars?

[BiggusLaddus]

I seem to remember that the number of stars doesn't make any difference to the coaching results and that they were dependant on facilities, coach workload and determination attributes of the players.

Training is something that has never really been explained by SI since it changed to this format a few years ago. Hopefully they know will do after complicating it with those new 'bars', which for me don't always seem to reflect the old base attributes. e.g. I'm recommended by a coach to sign a man managment specialist who has a low mm attribute but the mm 'bar' is 2/3rds full.

[tcj_jones]

I am in love with the new FM. The in-match game is vastly improved and I love the new additions.

Got it on pre-order. Hopefully the postal strike won't stop me getting it on time.

[Cocker]

FM 10 for the PSP has just been posted so I should get it tomorrow (its not using Royal Mail) - nice

[G Somerset Rover]

I reckon my order with Zavvi will be delayed due to the strikes. I can't be arsed cancelling though as £17.95 was such a bargain.

[Billy Castell]

And here I am happy with FM 2008!

I bet this'll be far more detailed, but the problem with me is that I never have the time to really get my teeth into any copy of FM before the new version's out. So I'm sticking with 2008.

P.S. Please don't delete the FM 2008 thread, I need the names of the good players!

[Eddie]

Any news on Zavvi?

Anyone know how the download works? Will you be able to play straight away at 00:01 tomorrow? Cheapest download? Does the download work with macs?

[brfcshabba]

My Zavvi order has been dispatched.

I've been looking at which team to be. I quite fancy taking on a really low down team and now that it is possible to play all the way down to level 10 on the pyramid there should be plenty of teams to choose from. Only two more levels lower and Euxton Villa would be on FM

[Eddie]

You might get lucky and get yours tomorrow then? Hopefully mine will arrive on Friday.

[brfcshabba]

All depends on Royal Mail really. Won't make much of a difference really as I'll be at work if it arrives

[Hughesy]

Ok guys convince me. I have 2009, however Im not happy to buy 10 if there isnt much changed. Iv not tested the demo so what is better about the new version?

See someone just said level 10 of the football leagues? What teams will that include? Darwen?

[Guest Kamy100]

Play the demo for just one hour Hughesy and you will see the difference. They have added a lot of things to the game, also the new editior is superb, you can use it to create league, so within a few weeks people will have released updates that in theory could go down very deep into local football.

[Hughesy]

Added alot like what?! Does it use steam this time?

[Guest Kamy100]

Like I said try the demo, there lots of small things which combined make the whole game a lot better, for example the 3D engine is a lot better mainly because they have added a lot more animations, it now also had a crowd and stadium. The tactics section has been totally reworked, it is much easier to create your own tactics using the tactics wizard, you can customise things to use the strengths of your players etc. The user interface has been completely redesigned, the transfer system has been adjusted, the training section has been reworked, you now get proper feedback from your assistant manager and coaches, you can have a meeting with them prior to a game and your coaches compare your team with the oppostion and offer advice, the better quality coaches you have the better quality advice you will get. After the game they help you to analyse the match in great depth, you can look at akk facets of the match and work out where your team is failing. This is just off the top of my head, there have been a lot more changes, it makes the game more immersive for me.

Steam - if you are a PC user then you can choose to validate via steam (like last year) or not to validate and then you have to leave the disc in your drive all the time you are playing the game. After last year SI have decided to go back to trusting people. I hope people don't play pirated versions of this game, mainly because they are harming SI who I believe are a superb company, they always work hard on their products and more importantly release patches, for example this year there are no major bugs in the game, howvever somone spotted error with stats for one player which could easily be edited using the editor, but SI decided to do a release day patch to correct this just incase there are people out there who do not/cannot use the editior, now that is what I call SUPPORT.

MAC Users - like last year have to have the disc in the drive all the time in order to play the game.

[Hughesy]

Is it the same stadium for all teams? Or unique ones?

Does the stadium increase/ improve when you have build extra seating?

Il probably end up with the game no doubt... just hate shelling out £30 if there is no big improvements. Also to be fair last years I didnt really batter as much as past versions, not quite sure why!

[G Somerset Rover]

Any news on Zavvi?

Anyone know how the download works? Will you be able to play straight away at 00:01 tomorrow? Cheapest download? Does the download work with macs?

My Zavvi order still says "awaiting stock pick", which is a bit of a joke really as I ordered it back in September. I've sent them an email and they've basically said they hope to get it to me by tomorrow, but I can't see it with the strikes.

For the price though I'm not really gonna complain too much. I'm busy this weekend in London anyway.

[Guest Kamy100]

Is it the same stadium for all teams? Or unique ones?

Does the stadium increase/ improve when you have build extra seating?

Il probably end up with the game no doubt... just hate shelling out £30 if there is no big improvements. Also to be fair last years I didnt really batter as much as past versions, not quite sure why!

The stadiums are generic ones, but they add a little bit to the match atmosphere. Best place to buy it from is Zavvi website, it is £18 or shopto.net where it is £23.

[LeChuck]

Hughesy - just download the demo and play a game! You'll get much better answers doing that.

Regarding stadiums, I'm sure they've improved a lot this year? I mainly played with the 2D pitch on 09 so I can't remember for certain...but I'm sure they didn't have stands that reflected stadium size and people in the crowd that reflected attendance?