[Archived] Transfer Topic The Final Day

[thenodrog]

Gordon. Why do you find it necessary to alienate as many members as possible with your snide remarks?

Of course I can not influence the board on my own and as we have established that they do read this site and together we can at least get across our feelings on many subjects.

Note the smiley Al. I'm not trying to alienate you as much as stop you making a fool of yourself.

My feeling is that they are entitled to squirrel as much money away as possible, either for a necessary return on investment or for a rainy day. Rem when extra money was found for Andy Cole to ease our plight? Where do you suppose it came from?

We are never going to win the PREM but there is still much money sloshing around if we can stay in it. Employing that pr1ck Ince must have cost us a few million in place money alone so where (and how) the hell do you think the board can get it back from when realtively small numbers of ST's are virtually given away?

Over to you Al.

I'm not one to criticise the board but IF Sam doesnt get any more of the money for new signings I wouldn't begrudge him walking, his treatment has been shocking.

With a net profit of around £18 million on these signings there is no excuse whatsoever for more money not to be available.

Right on cue! Read the post above yours TCO.

[Hughesy]

People need to look at other things where the warnock deal is concerned.

Is Warnock worth 5 times the amount of Chimbonda? £1.5m x 5 = £7.5m

Simple answer required NO. So from a business sense it makes good sense.

[Big Fat Sam]

People need to look at other things where the warnock deal is concerned.

Is Warnock worth 5 times the amount of Chimbonda? £1.5m x 5 = £7.5m

Simple answer required NO. So from a business sense it makes good sense.

Sorry Hughesy but does selling a left back and signing a right back make good footballing sense?

[DeadlyDirk]

It does seem to me at the moment that Allardyce is almost paying for Ince's mistakes and the money it cost us in finishing money. (In all honesty Sam couldn't have got us much higher than he did from when he took over).

Now that's fine IF Sam was told when he took the job that money is tight and he will need to sell players off next year, hopefully Sam is playing some mind games but to me it seems like he was kept in the dark.

Now I know a manager is there to manage and shouldn't be in charge of all the finances but he should at least be made aware of the current financial situation. Maybe he has been and maybe Sam is just telling it like it is but that's not the impression I'm getting from him.

Now as others have said, it could be a case of holding back money until January to see where we are but I would have thought that after keeping us up he'd have earnt the right to be able to spend a bit more now so that he doesn't have to pull out the same magic tricks this season.

You can spin it anyway you want and Sam has done the best job he can with the funds he had but any manager would struggle to improve the squad with a negative transfer budget.

The only other thing I can think of is the club is pushing hard for a takeover and are trying to make the club as attractive as possible by being debt free, but then another attraction would be a high league position which is going to be a lot more difficult with our current transfer policy.

I'm not angry or demanding answers from the board or anyone, I'm just a bit confused and I think a bit like all of us am just wondering what the long term plan is. If we do need to keep selling players to survive then we better hope the youth really comes through in the next couple of years because other than perhaps Samba, N'Zonzi and Robinson I don't see who else could be sold for much of a profit. Givet while class is perhaps too old to make a profit on (Not saying I want to sell him obviously, far from it!), Kalinic maybe if he gets in form for us.

At the end of the day I love Rovers and will continue to support them 100% no matter what happens 2-5-10 years from now or what division we are in, I've had no reason to doubt JW in the past and while I don't believe fans needs to know all the ins and outs of the financial side of the club I guess I just feel more in the dark than ever and of course with anything in life if you're passionate about something you want to know everything about that certain something.

Despite a relatively poor start I have no fears of relegation this summer but I believe Hughes thought he can only continue pulling rabbits out of the hat for so long and how long until Allardyce or the next manager thinks the same. We could become a club that constantly gives young managers/managers with something to prove a chance until they've improved their reputation and move on. That's fine if we keep picking up a Hughes or an Allardyce but without dragging him too much into this debate how long before we take a chance on someone else and he turns out to be another Ince.

I'm just rambling now, so much to say, so hard to express it!

Still interested on what Kelbo's big news he's heard is.

[HemelRover]

My feeling is that they are entitled to squirrel as much money away as possible, either for a necessary return on investment or for a rainy day. Rem when extra money was found for Andy Cole to ease our plight? Where do you suppose it came from?

We are never going to win the PREM but there is still much money sloshing around if we can stay in it. Employing that pr1ck Ince must have cost us a few million in place money alone so where (and how) the hell do you think the board can get it back from when realtively small numbers of ST's are virtually given away?

Spot on. Exactly my thoughts.

[Tom]

I appreciate that the money obviously goes to more than transfer fee's Theno but surely nobody can begrudge Sam being seriously hacked off.

You have to wonder what exactly would have happened had the interest in Roque not come to fruition. Sam has agreed to sell a lot of moenys worth of talent but for me hasn't been backed as much as he could.

John Williams does a superb job but I think its the men above him forcing his hand here.

As I said my main point is Sam has every right to be glum, its hard working conditions for any manager here right now

[DeadlyDirk]

People need to look at other things where the warnock deal is concerned.

Is Warnock worth 5 times the amount of Chimbonda? £1.5m x 5 = £7.5m

Simple answer required NO. So from a business sense it makes good sense.

I have to agree with BFS (The poster), I know you always try and look at things positively Hughesy which is a refreshing change, I'm the same the majority of the time, but while it may make sense from a short term business point of view it certainly doesn't improve us on the pitch, Chimbonda WAS an excellent right back and could be again, he could even become a very good left back but right now we just have to wait and see really.

As I said it might be good business in the short term but if we continue to weaken the playing the squad in order to improve the finances then in the future it could lead to relegation which certainly won't improve our financial situation and we have to wonder, was it all worth it?

I'm not saying we should have kept Warnock, he wanted to go, we got a good price and that's fair enough but I think we should have aimed a bit higher with his replacement. I have nothing against Chimbonda, he's a decent player but he simply isn't as good a left back as Warnock was which is difficult to argue. (I wasn't even Warnock's biggest fan either).

[imy9]

Hang on - didn't Sam himself say and I quote "we would need 2 signings to replace Warnock". He's going to look a bit of a tit if he doesn't follow it through!

the confusing side is what if warnock was not sold does that mean that were struggling financially with the banks?1.5 million out of at least 7 million and you are left with over 5 million why can this not be made available for a loan signing or free? I want to know how much debt is left as if it is still high then surely jw's position needs to be looked at again.

[CAPT KAYOS]

As bad as it seems - could it not also mean that Rovers having reduced any debt - could soon be in profit or at least on a level footing. Which in itself will be a good thing. If uefa do bring in their plans then Rovers - if they have no debt could be better off.

Hate to say it but success for Rovers is staying in the prem - even if it is just above the bottom 3. Because relegation would possible be the end of the club. Stay in the prem, no debt but money in the bank and build on from there. It may take a few years of pain and fustration, in order to achieve better progress.

Exactly Pafell - this is my thinking anyway or at least making sure we are on a decent footing should (dare we say) we be rele .................

[unluckymorton]

Exactly Pafell - this is my thinking anyway or at least making sure we are on a decent footing should (dare we say) we be rele .................

How dare you Capt!!!!

[CAPT KAYOS]

How dare you Capt!!!!

Notice the ... um

What is evidently obvious is that there is something a going on amongst the walls and corridors of Ewood Manor

[Tom]

Out of interest how would people react now if after being told there is no money left we ended up going for Smith or Barton?

[joey_big_nose]

I really hope Sam is bluffing because, although Chimbonda is a good player, to have sold Warnock to buy him is not good enough. We are significantly weaker than last season.

I really don't agree with this statement. We are provably a little stronger - primarily through the addition of Diouf and Givet who offer us alot more than we had in September 2008 (we had no right winger for a start...). Cruz gave us nothing last year - to the point where we had to rely on Samba at the end. Warnock is a decent player but Givet is much better, plus Chimbonda is of roughly the same quality as Warnock.

Derbyshire gave us very little to be honest, decent guy that he is - hence why he struglled to get games. All the other losses have been squad players not fundamental to the side (Vogel, Gallagher, Mokoena etc.). You cannot say difinitively until we have played ten matches or so but from my point of view Jackobsen, Salgado, NZonzi, Kalinic, Hoilett will all give significantly to the team. Perhaps Di Santo as well. Van Heerden could prove to be a pointless addition.

The one player we will miss is Tugay, but his powers were waning dramatically last year. Its a shame because a two or three year younger Toogs alongised NZonzi would be an impressive combo.

[alexanders]

Not bad that we actually have two players in our squad who both played in the World Cup Final in 2006.

Both Gael Givet and Pascal Chimbonda played for France during that game.

[Al]

My feeling is that they are entitled to squirrel as much money away as possible, either for a necessary return on investment or for a rainy day. Rem when extra money was found for Andy Cole to ease our plight? Where do you suppose it came from?

We are never going to win the PREM but there is still much money sloshing around if we can stay in it. Employing that pr1ck Ince must have cost us a few million in place money alone so where (and how) the hell do you think the board can get it back from when realtively small numbers of ST's are virtually given away?

Over to you Al.

Maybe from £18mil profit on transfers?

[RibbleValleyRover]

plus Chimbonda is of roughly the same quality as Warnock.

Chimbonda is a right back that’s his best position and he has been known to sulk when playing in other positions. Warnock is one of the best left backs in the league so i don't see how anyone can say they are at the same level if we are talking about the LB position or that Chimbonda is a better player there.

The positivity brigade can spin it all they want, but to say Chimbonda is as good as Warnock at LB is ludicrous.

Not bad that we actually have two players in our squad who both played in the World Cup Final in 2006.

Both Gael Givet and Pascal Chimbonda played for France during that game.

I think you will find that Chimbonda has only one cap and that came on the 87th minute in a friendly warm up match in 2006. He hasn't been capped since.

[Bobby G]

2006?

I didnt think I saw Chimbonda or Givet appear in that game.

[Ricky]

No sign of either of them

[spencey7]

Not bad that we actually have two players in our squad who both played in the World Cup Final in 2006.

Both Gael Givet and Pascal Chimbonda played for France during that game.

No they didn't.

France's team:

16 F Barthez

19 W Sagnol

15 L Thuram

05 W Gallas

03 E Abidal

22 F Ribery (100 D Trezeguet )

04 P Vieira (56 A Diarra )

06 C Makelele

10 Z Zidane

07 F Malouda

12 T Henry (107 S Wiltord )

Match report here.

[philipl]

It fascinates me that so many people are judging the 'budget' based purely on transfer fees. The modern game isn't based on that premise, you have to take the whole cost of the deal which includes a lot you can't see.

1) Fee to transferring club

2) Agents fees

3) Contract settlements

4) Signing on fees

5) Wages (which can vary dramatically if the fee is low)

6) Other costs (eg houses, minders, translators)

7) Anything else I forget

If that doesn't make sense look at the mess 'appy 'arry left Portsmouth in, lots of applause for heis wheeling and dealing but hidden costs really added up to hole the Pompey ship. Remember the Titanic was sunk by the 90% of the iceberg not in sight!

Sam has traditionally gone for players on low transfers but big wages, I suspect that he was given the choice of balancing wages and fees and he chose the former. Salgado for one will be on big money and no transfer fee, lots of hidden costs.

So before berating the board for poor support consider whether we see all the true costs of the deals.

All the same I also suspect there is a bit of posturing to keep the prices we are paying to a more sensible level.

There have always been lean times for Rovers, this is not the worst!

Thank you.

At last a well-balanced contribution.

I pointed out a while back that Warnock +Gally out and Salgado+ Chimbonda in equals huge strain on the wages bill irrespective of whatever surplus got generated from transfer fees.

Wages get paid every month, transfer fees get spread over as much as four years.

The wages bill is what JW and the board and the bank manager will all be looking at. The bank manager will be happy to have seen the overdraft buttressed by net transfer fees contracted (we don't know if they have been paid) for about 50% of its size and if the cash is being handed over advantagiously, the interest bill should at least halve from £1.5m or thereabouts last year.

[Veevs]

2006?

I didnt think I saw Chimbonda or Givet appear in that game.

they where unused subs.. but both in the french squad *shrug*

[RibbleValleyRover]

2006?

I didnt think I saw Chimbonda or Givet appear in that game.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=195451&cc=5739

[alexanders]

I think you will find that Chimbonda has only one cap and that came on the 87th minute in a friendly warm up match in 2006. He hasn't been capped since.

Sorry my mistake:

Subs Not Used: Boumsong, Chimbonda, Coupet, Dhorasoo, Givet, Govou, Landreau, Silvestre.

[waggy]

i saw chimbando running round the track when france played spian

[LeChuck]

Chimbonda made his only appearance for France in the group stages, I'm not sure when Givet played.

Regarding left back, I think the situation will be; if Nelsen and Samba are fit, Givet plays left back. If either Nelsen or Samba are unavailable, Chimbonda plays left back.

Considering most people were putting Givet at left back in their strongest XI this summer, I find the reaction to the transfer a bit OTT.

I just really hope Sam can manoeuvre the squad some more and make room for one last recruit. I think he's done a great job so far, we're arguably stronger despite having a net spend of roughly -£16 million this summer.