[Archived] Sunderland Preview

[Jonnolad]

Take the positives and the negatives and you see the reasons we have lost the game!!

Positives yes, we created chances, had lots of attempts on goal, two disallowed (you dont get many games with two disallowed)

Pederson was delivering the ball much better than last season, good dangerous crosses!

The negatives for me were we lack pace all over the park, Di Santo apart, we had no pace, its a worry, even at the back, we have little or no pace!!

As for quality in central midfield, well, we simply must address this, I was gobsmacked to hear the armband was passed to Andrews when Nelsen went off!!!

We have almost 20 chances a game so far, 10 of which on target this game, our strikers are missing golden oppurtunities, our manager is saying the problem is our finishing, all the newspaper reports directly mention our finishing as the problem, the newspapers don't mention our midfield and certainly not Andews as the problem. Yet surprise surprise Andrews is the problem in your opinion.

Don't tell me though - you know football. Presumably because you coach under 7's on a Sunday or somthing. Forget what Allardyce knows, you know better.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Andrews played the full 90 when Grella and Emerton and even Hoilett were on the bench? Instead Sam choose for Andrews to play the full 90 - why? Why wasn't one of them brought on for at least the last 20 minutes?

[joey_big_nose]

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Andrews played the full 90 when Grella and Emerton and even Hoilett were on the bench? Instead Sam choose for Andrews to play the full 90 - why? Why wasn't one of them brought on for at least the last 20 minutes?

Injuries took up two subs, the need for an extra striker took up the third.I am sure Andrews would have been subbed otherwise. He was totally anonymous in a team where everyone else did quite well.

[Stuart]

We have almost 20 chances a game so far, 10 of which on target this game, our strikers are missing golden oppurtunities, our manager is saying the problem is our finishing, all the newspaper reports directly mention our finishing as the problem, the newspapers don't mention our midfield and certainly not Andews as the problem. Yet surprise surprise Andrews is the problem in your opinion.

Don't tell me though - you know football. Presumably because you coach under 7's on a Sunday or somthing. Forget what Allardyce knows, you know better.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Andrews played the full 90 when Grella and Emerton and even Hoilett were on the bench? Instead Sam choose for Andrews to play the full 90 - why? Why wasn't one of them brought on for at least the last 20 minutes?

Because Grella and Emerton are coming back from injury and Hoillet is still settling in. It doesn't matter how much you know about football, to throw on unfit players when you are chasing a game is not a good idea - unless it's the last few games of the season and you are desperate. (Look what happened to Nelsen).

Add to that Dunn and Reid it makes Andrews our only fit CM to pair with the other new boy N'Zonzi so for now we are stuck with him.

Do you really think that if all our other midfielders were ready we'd be starting games with Andrews? Really?

[thenodrog]

POSSIBLY THE WORST EVER POST ON HERE

Hook, line and sinker Tash.

................... Crikey reading on and there's more of em just waiting to jump on your hook.

I can understand why teams like yourself resort to such "direct" tactics but if my team played that way I would not be happy. It can be effective but it's pretty dreadful to watch. If you keep playing like that I hope you go down, along with Stoke. If you brought in the 5-a-side "head-height" rule, you'd be knackered, which says it all.

Good post wedge except you seem to have forgotten Niall Quinn playing up top for years for you lot. Selective memory or what?

Two drunk knights...

It was four.

So long as we keep that sort of form going, we are going to give somebody an almighty stuffing and we will be off and running.

I don't want to be a doommonger but in my experience f we do not get results going our way soon our form will dip.

[thenodrog]

I'm not one for going by all the stats, score goals and win, don't score you lose. We need to score.

Very early days yet but it's galling to see Ghilas looking so sharp for Hull and Kalinic so inept. We were a midges d1ck off signing Ghilas apparently. Alos even more galling was Kenwyn Jones scoring their goals when he might well have been playing in blue and white.

btw Di Santo's injury looked like a hamstring.... any news on that and how long he is likely to be out?

[cn174]

Another quick observation from the FF highlights was that Robinson may as well have booted the ball into his own net and given Sunderland an equalizer, the way he came sprinting out at Jones. He gets this rush of blood to the head quite often and was lucky he didn't make any contact with Jones, because he would have been sent off.

Eh? What really was he supposed to do, he was close to the edge of his area anyway which is where he should've been considering how high up the pitch the ball was. We'd have been moaning even more if Robbo had stood on his line like a lemon and just waited for Jones to come. Not sure why Samba tried to kick it when a head would've been much better.

[thenodrog]

1. As for quality in central midfield, well, we simply must address this, I was gobsmacked to hear the armband was passed to Andrews when Nelsen went off!!!

2. Bilic is no mug and Croatia are a decent footballing side, so I think we must wait and see but I fel he will come good and soon too!!

1. Simply a SA inspired confidence booster I'd imagine. Probably shrewd man management.

2. Slaven Bilic might be quite 'friendly' with his agent though.

We have almost 20 chances a game so far, 10 of which on target this game, our strikers are missing golden oppurtunities, our manager is saying the problem is our finishing, all the newspaper reports directly mention our finishing as the problem, the newspapers don't mention our midfield and certainly not Andews as the problem. Yet surprise surprise Andrews is the problem in your opinion.

Don't tell me though - you know football. Presumably because you coach under 7's on a Sunday or somthing. Forget what Allardyce knows, you know better.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Andrews played the full 90 when Grella and Emerton and even Hoilett were on the bench? Instead Sam choose for Andrews to play the full 90 - why? Why wasn't one of them brought on for at least the last 20 minutes?

Personally after his performances in April and no real replacement I'm starting to think that we might have been hasty in showing Tugay the door. He's out of his depth against the top 4/5 teams but yesterday the SoL might just have been his arena.

Eh? What really was he supposed to do, he was close to the edge of his area anyway which is where he should've been considering how high up the pitch the ball was. We'd have been moaning even more if Robbo had stood on his line like a lemon and just waited for Jones to come. Not sure why Samba tried to kick it when a head would've been much better.

Accident waiting to happen. Samba has snaked a leg out in that fashion when the ball has been passing him a couple of dozen times very successfully in the time that he has been here. Yesterday was the other side of the coin.

[John]

btw Di Santo's injury looked like a hamstring.... any news on that and how long he is likely to be out?

He has a hamstring strain, Sam said a few weeks.

[Stuart]

Very early days yet but it's galling to see Ghilas looking so sharp for Hull and Kalinic so inept. We were a midges d1ck off signing Ghilas apparently.

btw Di Santo's injury looked like a hamstring.... any news on that and how long he is likely to be out?

Few weeks according to the official site but who knows. That could put him out for September, coming back into the team in "Black October" and then have 2 months left before he's off back to Chelsea! Although I've a feeling that Chelsea won't need him so it might not be quite so bad.

[rovers1995]

Few weeks according to the official site but who knows. That could put him out for September, coming back into the team in "Black October" and then have 2 months left before he's off back to Chelsea! Although I've a feeling that Chelsea won't need him so it might not be quite so bad.

If it is a few weeks then he will miss the gillingham and west ham game in the first week, then we have a week break in the second week, and then play wolves in the third week. He could be back for the Everton game.

[Big Fat Sam]

We have almost 20 chances a game so far, 10 of which on target this game, our strikers are missing golden oppurtunities, our manager is saying the problem is our finishing, all the newspaper reports directly mention our finishing as the problem, the newspapers don't mention our midfield and certainly not Andews as the problem. Yet surprise surprise Andrews is the problem in your opinion.

Don't tell me though - you know football. Presumably because you coach under 7's on a Sunday or somthing. Forget what Allardyce knows, you know better.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that Andrews played the full 90 when Grella and Emerton and even Hoilett were on the bench? Instead Sam choose for Andrews to play the full 90 - why? Why wasn't one of them brought on for at least the last 20 minutes?

A creative midfielder could create more clean cut chances for our strikers from through balls and the such which at present we don't have. We could also attack down the middle, again an option we currently don't have. We would stop playing long balls because players would acctually have confidence in passing the ball inside as opposed to long.

There was one incident yesterday when Andrews sumed himself up for me. Second half the ball gets loose in the middle our mans (not keith) on the floor with 3 sunderland players nearer the ball than Keith, the breaks on if they can move the ball quickly. So what do you do, you won't get there first, so charging in is out the window. I could push up but theres three so the quick one two and they're past me. Or I could hold and make them decide what to do, taking up time and slowing down the play allowing us to get men back behind the ball.

Ten guesses what Keith did??? Worst thing is he practically ran through them and past the ball before falling over. He tries and tries but he has and never will be good enough as a regular in this league. He could be useful later in games to add energy in the middle.

Also Jonnolad since Kelbo has bothered to sit his badges and give up his valuable time for many a year coaching far higher than U 7's, I would like to introduce you to something called Informed opinion. Now this is where the opinion comes from some one who has expertise or experience in a field being discussed, Kelbo does, I'm guessing by your patronisation of him you don't. As such in any debate his opinion will always be considered above yours.

[Jonnolad]

Because Grella and Emerton are coming back from injury and Hoillet is still settling in. It doesn't matter how much you know about football, to throw on unfit players when you are chasing a game is not a good idea - unless it's the last few games of the season and you are desperate. (Look what happened to Nelsen).

Add to that Dunn and Reid it makes Andrews our only fit CM to pair with the other new boy N'Zonzi so for now we are stuck with him.

Do you really think that if all our other midfielders were ready we'd be starting games with Andrews? Really?

I don't know.

What I am saying is Andrews can't be that bad if Alardyce plays him for the whole game when he has other players on the bench. What's the point in these players being on the bench if they aren't even fit enough for 20 minutes on the pitch?

Also how do you explain TV / newspapers focusing on our striker problem, and absolutely categorically missing this apparent Andrews problem? Mysteriously in fact newspapers actually give Andrews decent marks for the game - other players of ours are given far lower marks.

Plus there's the fact that Sam refused to even talk to Fulham with regard to selling Andrews of course, and then gave him a new contract! It seems Sam is far happier to lose Warnock than he is Andrews. That must strike you as really odd.

Besides all that, if your synopsis Andrews is correct and he is only on the pitch because of an injury crisis, then surely as a fan you should be shouting to anyone who will listen that as fans we need to get behind Andrews 100% on the pitch, since he's only on there by default and he needs all the support we can muster.

[Jonnolad]

A creative midfielder could create more clean cut chances for our strikers from through balls and the such which at present we don't have. We could also attack down the middle, again an option we currently don't have. We would stop playing long balls because players would acctually have confidence in passing the ball inside as opposed to long.

There was one incident yesterday when Andrews sumed himself up for me. Second half the ball gets loose in the middle our mans (not keith) on the floor with 3 sunderland players nearer the ball than Keith, the breaks on if they can move the ball quickly. So what do you do, you won't get there first, so charging in is out the window. I could push up but theres three so the quick one two and they're past me. Or I could hold and make them decide what to do, taking up time and slowing down the play allowing us to get men back behind the ball.

Ten guesses what Keith did??? Worst thing is he practically ran through them and past the ball before falling over. He tries and tries but he has and never will be good enough as a regular in this league. He could be useful later in games to add energy in the middle.

Also Jonnolad since Kelbo has bothered to sit his badges and give up his valuable time for many a year coaching far higher than U 7's, I would like to introduce you to something called Informed opinion. Now this is where the opinion comes from some one who has expertise or experience in a field being discussed, Kelbo does, I'm guessing by your patronisation of him you don't. As such in any debate his opinion will always be considered above yours.

Lol - even if his opinion apparently flies in the face of our manager's? Personally I'll take Sam Allardyce's opinion over some random dude on a messageboard. Or do you think Kelbo knows more than Sam? You stick with Kelbo though, and I'll stick with Sam.

I'm surprised that you don't think our strikers don't have enough chances incidentally. What do you think Sam Allardyce is on about when he says finishing is our problem? If creating chances were the problem then why isn't our manager (or even all the TV and newspapers) saying that?

[Stuart]

I don't know.

What I am saying is Andrews can't be that bad if Alardyce plays him for the whole game when he has other players on the bench. What's the point in these players being on the bench if they aren't even fit enough for 20 minutes on the pitch?

In case of injuries? Lack of overall squad depth? The one thing Andrews has going for his is his ability to stay fit.

Also how do you explain TV / newspapers focusing on our striker problem, and absolutely categorically missing this apparent Andrews problem? Mysteriously in fact newspapers actually give Andrews decent marks for the game - other players of ours are given far lower marks.

Because the media show very little interest in us and tend to go for the very obvious. Surely anyone with any knowledge of Rovers would see that we are screaming out for a decent midfielder. It's okay creating 20-odd chances but if they are not ending up in goals are they the right kind of chances for our forwards to take. Even Benni's effort which ended up on the Darwen end roof counts as a shot!

Plus there's the fact that Sam refused to even talk to Fulham with regard to selling Andrews of course, and then gave him a new contract! It seems Sam is far happier to lose Warnock than he is Andrews. That must strike you as really odd.

We don't know the actual values involved - or if it's even true. Although I have said before, if we really did reject £2.5M then we have missed the boat.

Besides all that, if your synopsis Andrews is correct and he is only on the pitch because of an injury crisis, then surely as a fan you should be shouting to anyone who will listen that as fans we need to get behind Andrews 100% on the pitch, since he's only on there by default and he needs all the support we can muster.

Hey, I don't dislike Andrews and when he is on the pitch he does try, probably his best, but even when he's on top of his game he is average. He is not good enough for this level and as long as we keeping sending out teams with him in the starting line up, we will continue to struggle.

I'd be delighted to be wrong on this but I don't think I am.

[Amo]

We don't know the actual values involved - or if it's even true. Although I have said before, if we really did reject £2.5M then we have missed the boat.

But would that be the net amount after bank payments/agent fees etc etc? Sam probably took this into consideration and decided it just wasn't worth it, especially when you consider Andrews signed for £750,000 - £1.3m.

Andrews is an average player at best, who is often carried when we're crying out for invention in the middle of the park. His main saving grace at the moment is that he keeps fit ahead of Dunn, Reid, and Grella, and can run around a lot for the second ball.

[Exiled_Rover]

Just seen the goals on ESPN, good lord that was bad defending.

As I've said previously, sadly Rovers have to be happy with being in this division. That'll mean a long, hard season ahead - all this talk of Europe is pie in the sky stuff.

[Kelbo]

jonnolad,

Does it not strike you as odd, that we have international strikers at the club, a youngster who Chelsea dont want to sell, are failing to put the ball in the net??

Almost each time we have an opportunty, we have defenders facing our attackers, we want to be turning defences through the midle or round the back!!

We concede most goals with our defenders facing our own goal, we lack pace and creativity, I am saying simply this, Andrews lacks both technique and vision, sure he works hard, but I can find you 1,000s of footballers who work hard too, but they wont be good enough!

No one is saying I know more than Sam Allardyce, I am simply voicing what I believe to be an honest and accurate opinion which is shared by ex pros

and coaches alike, indeed, when I have spoken to one ex Rover and asked his opinion on Keith, he looked, smiled and shook his head, for me that told me an awful lot.

Sometimes, my team have to play lads who would not normally play due to injuries, suspensions etc. there are no real options and if Sam is really trying to get Emo, Dunn, Reid and Grella fit, he will hold them as long as possible before using them, thats called looking after your players and sound management.

As for the comment the armband was passed to give some confidence, yes, I will go with that, could be a possibility but a Captain for me should be leading by example and a player the rest of the team look up to, listen to and respect, whatever your status in football, I dont think anyone could put those attributes to KA.

As BFS says, we are unable, due to lack of quality in midfield, to play through the middle of our opponents, it needs guille and pace to do this and we have neither, we simply must get a CM on board quickly, we need options, without those options, we will be uni directional, predictable and easy prey for opponents!!

[den]

I'm afraid your wasting your time debating with Jonno guys. As often as you want, you can point out to him that you have watched him, along with thousands of others and have come to the conclusion that he's not very good.

You wont get a reply from him along the lines of "well he played a great game against......, his passing was good and he outplayed the opposite midfielder", or "his strengths are........". Maybe because he doesn't actually watch him much? - I don't know about that.

No, you will always get the stock answer that Sam picks him. Oh and some papers gave him good marks. Or maybe that he must be good because Trappattonni picks him.

Jonno thinks that because he can throw lots of these comments around, even though taken singly they mean nothing, the weight of the numbers is proof indeed.

[Stuart]

As for the comment the armband was passed to give some confidence, yes, I will go with that, could be a possibility but a Captain for me should be leading by example and a player the rest of the team look up to, listen to and respect, whatever your status in football, I dont think anyone could put those attributes to KA.

Taking Den's advice, I'm going to leave the Andrews debate for another day now.

However, picking out Kelbo's comment here, step forward Michel Salgado.

[Balwer]

To all who said that Keith was captain when Nelsen went off, the TV commentators said that it went to Robbo, as it has done previously in preseason. Can anyone confirm which of these is actually the case?

[Big Fat Sam]

Lol - even if his opinion apparently flies in the face of our manager's? Personally I'll take Sam Allardyce's opinion over some random dude on a messageboard. Or do you think Kelbo knows more than Sam? You stick with Kelbo though, and I'll stick with Sam.

I'm surprised that you don't think our strikers don't have enough chances incidentally. What do you think Sam Allardyce is on about when he says finishing is our problem? If creating chances were the problem then why isn't our manager (or even all the TV and newspapers) saying that?

Your quite a curious one aren't you???

Firstly I congratulate you on having an inside line straight to Sam because unless you do as usual you are spouting rubbish, you do not know Sam nor have you spoken to him about this issue. Thats called assumption and is the mother of them all. So you don't know Sam's opinion do you. So I'll back kelbo while you delusionally claim to know Sam's mind.

Secondly I never said we weren't creating chances but not enough clean cut ones IE one on ones and the such. We are creating lots of chances but as always people don't consider what those chances where. I can only assume you don't know the difference between a half chance and clean cut ones. Either that or you should read things twice before replying. Because I don't remember many clean ones in the last two games. Even Klanics miss at the death had four or five bodies to miss if it had hit the target. Benni's (I think it was him) back post header that hit the bar was the best chance we created all day.

At present the vast majority of our chances are coming from set-pieces and the opposition has all there pieces in place for those. Which makes there job a little easier.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I think the point is that: why are some people pinning some of the blame for yesterday on Andrews when we patently lost because of more glaring failings at the front and the back. Yes, if Andrews was replaced by a playmaker he might have turned the game, but if Samba had been replaced by someone who could defend against pace and all the strikers replaced by someone who could shoot straight...

As to the number of shots on goal we allegedly had: I believe that stat includes all shots heading towards the goal but not actually reaching it, which for us is mostly scuffed efforts on the turn in a crowded box. In two games the opposing keeper has only had to pull out one good save. We are not being unlucky in front of goal, we are failing to be lucky.

[modes98]

In two games the opposing keeper has only had to pull out one good save. We are not being unlucky in front of goal, we are failing to be lucky.

Well for a start Given pulled off 2 very good saves last week and had it not been for a defender covering it one shot would have beaten him.

Haven't really seen highlights for yesterday apart from goals but I heard Dioufs shot forced a good save from flapping Fulop.

It was a stroke of luck that Givet's shot made it through a crowded box and went in, but also a very good strike.

[The Prof.]

Lol - even if his opinion apparently flies in the face of our manager's? Personally I'll take Sam Allardyce's opinion over some random dude on a messageboard. Or do you think Kelbo knows more than Sam? You stick with Kelbo though, and I'll stick with Sam.

I'm surprised that you don't think our strikers don't have enough chances incidentally. What do you think Sam Allardyce is on about when he says finishing is our problem? If creating chances were the problem then why isn't our manager (or even all the TV and newspapers) saying that?

Whatever Keith.

[G Somerset Rover]

1. We can't take our chances

2. We gifted them two goals - that's two crucial errors by Samba this season.

3. No chances created from open play BUT it's good to see we do threaten from set pieces which has long been lacking at Ewood.

Samba really has got to knock this out of his game. He's costing us goals and points right now.

He does have some great strength's but Givet is our best centre back by some distance IMO.