[Archived] Sunderland Preview

[Paul]

I don't want to be a doommonger but in my experience f we do not get results going our way soon our form will dip.

I've tried not to think about this but you're right. I'm dreading Tuesday night and the effect a bad result will have. I guess sam won't be to bothered about this competition so won't be surprised if we field a very weak team. Fail to beat WHU and I think we're in for a rocky time.

[ABBEY]

BLOODY HELL PEOPLE GET A FRIGGIN GRIP WE PLAYED 2 (TWO) THATS RIGHT 2 GAMES !!!!!!!

[John]

Easy to have knee-jerks, but it was important to get off to a good start points wise. This was also highlighted by players and management pre-season.

Like last season, we have been playing teams at the right times and not taking advantage.

Only 2 games gone, correct, but if you look at our fixtures in October, we need to start picking up points fast if we want to have a decent season.

[Jonnolad]

jonnolad,

Does it not strike you as odd, that we have international strikers at the club, a youngster who Chelsea dont want to sell, are failing to put the ball in the net??

Almost each time we have an opportunty, we have defenders facing our attackers, we want to be turning defences through the midle or round the back!!

We concede most goals with our defenders facing our own goal

Let's get this straight - are you saying our strikers are not scoring and our defense are letting in goals because of Keith Andrews? He's that bad is he? He's basically the cause of all our woes.

Why don't you think the press are picking up on this obvious fact? Instead all they are going on about is our strikers not finishing! Can't those idiots see that our attackers are facing defenders? Even Sam forgot about it too because he was blaming our finishing instead of our midfield as well, the flippin fool - can't he see that it's not the strikers finishing which is to blame it's our midfield!

It also begs the huge question - why does Sam play Andrews, and more importantly why did he not sell him to Fulham, and incredulously why did he give him a new contract? It's weird that with Warnock he said the offer wasn't high enough, but with Andrews he said absolutely not for sale, and then gave him a new contract to clearly show he meant it.

No one is saying I know more than Sam Allardyce, I am simply voicing what I believe to be an honest and accurate opinion which is shared by ex pros

and coaches alike, indeed, when I have spoken to one ex Rover and asked his opinion on Keith, he looked, smiled and shook his head, for me that told me an awful lot.

Coaches at professional level or the under 7 coaches on the local park? And one ex pro possibly implied something with a smile? I'm not being funny but the ex Rover you spoke to was probably shaking his head and thinking "oh no not another moron who doesn't actually know football but just follows what everyone else thinks", or are you seriously suggesting he was shaking his head as if to imply "I know, diabolical isn't he, that manager of ours must be retarded"?

Sometimes, my team have to play lads who would not normally play due to injuries, suspensions etc. there are no real options and if Sam is really trying to get Emo, Dunn, Reid and Grella fit, he will hold them as long as possible before using them, thats called looking after your players and sound management.

In that case then, as a fan, shouldn't you literally be telling everyone who'll listen that we really need to get behind the player because he's only 5th choice and therefore needs all the help he can get.

As for the comment the armband was passed to give some confidence, yes, I will go with that, could be a possibility but a Captain for me should be leading by example and a player the rest of the team look up to, listen to and respect, whatever your status in football, I dont think anyone could put those attributes to KA.

He got the captain's armband to give him confidence? Do you honestly believe that? A hugely experienced manager gives a player a captain's armband during a premier league match to give him a bit of confidence? That manager must put an awful lot of emphasis on confidence. Hang on though, why was the same manager berating our strikers about not scoring, surely that would dent their confidence don't you think? Especially when he should clearly know they couldn't score because they had defenders in front of them! Suddenly he doesn't care about confidence when it comes to our strikers but, to suit your blinkered view, it's the absolute be all and end all when it comes to Keith Andrews.

[BuckyRover]

Well done Jonno.

Kelbo was saying last week how Sam had "seen the light" regarding Andrews. This week he gets the armband after we lose Nelsen.

Brilliant.

[Kelbo]

Let's get this straight - are you saying our strikers are not scoring and our defense are letting in goals because of Keith Andrews? He's that bad is he? He's basically the cause of all our woes.

Why don't you think the press are picking up on this obvious fact? Instead all they are going on about is our strikers not finishing! Can't those idiots see that our attackers are facing defenders? Even Sam forgot about it too because he was blaming our finishing instead of our midfield as well, the flippin fool - can't he see that it's not the strikers finishing which is to blame it's our midfield!

It also begs the huge question - why does Sam play Andrews, and more importantly why did he not sell him to Fulham, and incredulously why did he give him a new contract? It's weird that with Warnock he said the offer wasn't high enough, but with Andrews he said absolutely not for sale, and then gave him a new contract to clearly show he meant it.

Coaches at professional level or the under 7 coaches on the local park? And one ex pro possibly implied something with a smile? I'm not being funny but the ex Rover you spoke to was probably shaking his head and thinking "oh no not another moron who doesn't actually know football but just follows what everyone else thinks", or are you seriously suggesting he was shaking his head as if to imply "I know, diabolical isn't he, that manager of ours must be retarded"?

In that case then, as a fan, shouldn't you literally be telling everyone who'll listen that we really need to get behind the player because he's only 5th choice and therefore needs all the help he can get.

He got the captain's armband to give him confidence? Do you honestly believe that? A hugely experienced manager gives a player a captain's armband during a premier league match to give him a bit of confidence? That manager must put an awful lot of emphasis on confidence. Hang on though, why was the same manager berating our strikers about not scoring, surely that would dent their confidence don't you think? Especially when he should clearly know they couldn't score because they had defenders in front of them! Suddenly he doesn't care about confidence when it comes to our strikers but, to suit your blinkered view, it's the absolute be all and end all when it comes to Keith Andrews.

OK, He is a great player Jonno, you are so sure, list me five attributes he has as a proffessional footballer, I seriously would be interested in your reply, thanks in advance!

Oh, and the coaches I speak to are UEFA B minimum, as for the ex Rover, well I know what he means, we have been friends for over 45 years!!

[Jonnolad]

I'm afraid your wasting your time debating with Jonno guys. As often as you want, you can point out to him that you have watched him, along with thousands of others and have come to the conclusion that he's not very good.

You wont get a reply from him along the lines of "well he played a great game against......, his passing was good and he outplayed the opposite midfielder", or "his strengths are........". Maybe because he doesn't actually watch him much? - I don't know about that.

No, you will always get the stock answer that Sam picks him. Oh and some papers gave him good marks. Or maybe that he must be good because Trappattonni picks him.

Jonno thinks that because he can throw lots of these comments around, even though taken singly they mean nothing, the weight of the numbers is proof indeed.

They clearly mean something - they just fly in the face of your entrenched view though. That's the problem.

I personally think Andrews was capable in yesterday's game incidentally and certainly in the first half against Man City - . 2 or 3 of his passes went astray in the second half against City - who knows though - maybe that is a confidence thing playing in front of a borderline hostile home support - his own supporters!

The usual suspects though with their entrenched views pick up on every miss kick from Andrews. Forget that Warnock was passing to his imaginary friend more than Andrews, and forget that Warnock was directly to blame for both City goals. That doesn't matter. Andrews was bizarrely completely to blame for our bad play.

[Kelbo]

Just for you Jonno, the role of a midfielder.

"In essence, a good midfield must possess the ability to be combative whilst also being creative. A good striker without midfield support could lack attacking chances, while a defence likewise could be severely tested. Because they occupy the most influential parts of the pitch, midfielders are perhaps more likely to influence the outcome of a match than other positions,[3] especially if they have vision for a good pass or ability to score."

[Jonnolad]

OK, He is a great player Jonno, you are so sure, list me five attributes he has as a proffessional footballer, I seriously would be interested in your reply, thanks in advance!

You want me to answer your questions but you won't answer mine? One of those eh

Not being funny or owt but if you don't think Andrews has the attributes to be a proffessional footballer (is five the prequisite incidentally?) then the huge question still remains - why did Sam categorically turn down Fulham's offer and why did he give Andrews a new improved contract?

[Big Fat Sam]

OK OK

Its time to agree to disagree, but with some conditions.

I am quite willing to say sorry I know nothing about football, should Keith still be in the team once all the others are back.

If they come back and Andrews is still roving in our midfield I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Will you do the same if Keiths dropped Jonnolad????

[BuckyRover]

Just for you Jonno, the role of a midfielder.

"In essence, a good midfield must possess the ability to be combative whilst also being creative. A good striker without midfield support could lack attacking chances, while a defence likewise could be severely tested. Because they occupy the most influential parts of the pitch, midfielders are perhaps more likely to influence the outcome of a match than other positions,[3] especially if they have vision for a good pass or ability to score."

Maybe you should also forward that to Sam.

[Steve Moss]

Andrews has been playing better than some, from what I've seen. Of course, I'm a mere observer and have never played football in my life, so my opinion is not the most reliable.

[Big Fat Sam]

The contract was agreed when he signed if he did well he would get a new one.

[thenodrog]

Samba really has got to knock this out of his game. He's costing us goals and points right now.

He does have some great strength's but Givet is our best centre back by some distance IMO.

There is a parallel here that is quite close to home for us imo. Colin Hendry was a decent centre half who like to rampage forward at every opportunity until KMD came and told him to stop charging forward and to concentrate solely on defending and nothing else.... and he turned him into one of the best CH's inn the Premiere league!

Maybe Samba's concentration is being compromised by his wanderlust, and he is being over exposed by quick breaks from opposing teams.

[Kelbo]

You want me to answer your questions but you won't answer mine? One of those eh

Not being funny or owt but if you don't think Andrews has the attributes to be a proffessional footballer (is five the prequisite incidentally?) then the huge question still remains - why did Sam categorically turn down Fulham's offer and why did he give Andrews a new improved contract?

I dont speak with Sam and I simply cant answer the question, I and many others honestly cant, other than we have no bugger else fit at the moment to play there except Nzonzi who we wanted to hold back a little.

Based upon the following, here is amother area quoted in one of my coaching manuals

"Centre midfielder

Centre midfielders play several roles on the field of play, and are probably the most important in terms of setting up attacks. Their position enables them to have an all-round view of the match, and as most of the action takes place in and around their area of the pitch, midfielders often exert the greatest degree of control over how a match is played. This section of the field is often known as a team's "engine room", because great teams rarely succeed without skillful, commanding central midfielders"

Now, I ask again, what attributes do you give him for your belief of him being a good midfielder

[Jonnolad]

Just for you Jonno, the role of a midfielder.

"In essence, a good midfield must possess the ability to be combative whilst also being creative. A good striker without midfield support could lack attacking chances, while a defence likewise could be severely tested. Because they occupy the most influential parts of the pitch, midfielders are perhaps more likely to influence the outcome of a match than other positions,[3] especially if they have vision for a good pass or ability to score."

I think you need to email that to Sam Allardyce pronto, and all the newspapers come to think of it, as they seem to be blissfully unaware that it was Andrews fault that our strikers aren't scoring. They mysteriously seem to think it's the strikers themselves.

Chop chop, and you'll manage to catch them before the papers go to press - otherwise they'll continue to unjustly lay the blame on our strikers again!

The contract was agreed when he signed if he did well he would get a new one.

You saw that contract did you? How do you think they defined "did well"? Do you think he did well?

[Big Fat Sam]

I think you need to email that to Sam Allardyce pronto, and all the newspapers come to think of it, as they seem to be blissfully unaware that it was Andrews fault that our strikers aren't scoring. They mysteriously seem to think it's the strikers themselves.

Chop chop, and you'll manage to catch them before the papers go to press - otherwise they'll continue to unjustly lay the blame on our strikers again!

You saw that contract did you? How do you think they defined "did well"? Do you think he did well?

Jonnolad I reckon my opinion on Keith is simple.

Fit for the squad nothing more. Cameo's and covering for injuries.

on the contract I remember reading that it had been agreed that Keith would get a new one as I believe his wages for rather low for this level if he did well. He played most of the games and so on he has a strong case for arguing his contribtion.

But that doesn't mean that I believe he's done well enough for this league.

So Jonnolad willing to end the pointless debate and leave it with the gentlemans wager???

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just for you Jonno, the role of a midfielder.

"In essence, a good midfield must possess the ability to be combative whilst also being creative. A good striker without midfield support could lack attacking chances, while a defence likewise could be severely tested. Because they occupy the most influential parts of the pitch, midfielders are perhaps more likely to influence the outcome of a match than other positions,[3] especially if they have vision for a good pass or ability to score."

You are dodging the question though. Why, given all your vast experience, do you think Sam hasn't, in 2 windows now, sold him? He's sold Matty, Gally, pensioned off Tugay so it's not like there isn't an exit door. Why is Sam picking him when, if I believe you, Andrews should never be starting a premier league game under any circumstances? An ex-Rover raises an eyebrow but the current Rovers manager, who has the responsibility for the team's results and is vastly experienced at the very highest level of the game, is retaining and picking him. Why?

By the way, I am no fan of Allardyce or Andrews, but I fail to see the logic of why your experience means you are right when Sam's vastly greater experience means he is wrong.

[Kelbo]

OK OK

Its time to agree to disagree, but with some conditions.

I am quite willing to say sorry I know nothing about football, should Keith still be in the team once all the others are back.

If they come back and Andrews is still roving in our midfield I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Will you do the same if Keiths dropped Jonnolad????

Yes, me too!!

[thenodrog]

I've never put anybody on ignore but you are coming closest to it Jonno.

No matter what you say Keith Andrews is only a lower squad player, probably here cos he's on little money, and who is quite simply not good enough to be a permanent 1st team player. All our threat is currently coming from long balls and set plays and we seriously need to mix it up with some quality creativity from the middle of the park. Whilst KA is playing in that role there are just two chances of that happening... slim and fat! His best hope of punching his weight at Prem level is if.. and it's a big IF he can concentrate on adapting to a deep lying midfield role. There is a slim chance that he can turn into a Grella there is absolutely non that he can become a Dunn or Bentley.

Now will you stop talking crap ffs!

[Kelbo]

You are dodging the question though. Why, given all your vast experience, do you think Sam hasn't, in 2 windows now, sold him? He's sold Matty, Gally, pensioned off Tugay so it's not like there isn't an exit door. Why is Sam picking him when, if I believe you, Andrews should never be starting a premier league game under any circumstances? An ex-Rover raises an eyebrow but the current Rovers manager, who has the responsibility for the team's results and is vastly experienced at the very highest level of the game, is retaining and picking him. Why?

By the way, I am no fan of Allardyce or Andrews, but I fail to see the logic of why your experience means you are right when Sam's vastly greater experience means he is wrong.

I have never said on here my experience says I am correct, for that is very much opinionated, ability is not opinionated, it is a fact that can be viewed.

For me and many other people involved in football, a cental midfield player bereft of pace, vision and passing ability should not be plying their trade in the premiership against the worlds best!!

As for Sam being right, Ok, so the Hull and Wolves managers were right too, they didnt let him play even championship football and at 27 he's moved up from division 2 and has in all fairness done better than expected, but he isnt going to get much better if at all at his age, Nzonzi is still learning and in my opinion is a more complete midfielder than Keith.

[Amo]

You are dodging the question though. Why, given all your vast experience, do you think Sam hasn't, in 2 windows now, sold him? He's sold Matty, Gally, pensioned off Tugay so it's not like there isn't an exit door. Why is Sam picking him when, if I believe you, Andrews should never be starting a premier league game under any circumstances? An ex-Rover raises an eyebrow but the current Rovers manager, who has the responsibility for the team's results and is vastly experienced at the very highest level of the game, is retaining and picking him. Why?

By the way, I am no fan of Allardyce or Andrews, but I fail to see the logic of why your experience means you are right when Sam's vastly greater experience means he is wrong.

Let's look at the whole picture:

Sam's key players for centre midfield are currently Dunn, Reid, and Grella. All of whom have been blighted by injury. He can't do anything about that. People have talked about unloading Dunn and Reid off the wage bill, but how? Who's gonna want them? And would they be prepared for a drop in wages?

That leaves us with the direct approach, as we're starved of a ball-playing midfielder in the middle of the park. Up steps Andrews. Keeps fit, keeps his head down, and runs around a lot waiting for the second ball. He's not ideal, but then he's not crucial to the way we play. Sam clearly feels he wouldn't be able to find much better with the £2.5m (minus deductions) Fulham were offering.

[Kelbo]

Let's look at the whole picture:

Sam's key players for centre midfield are currently Dunn, Reid, and Grella. All of whom have been blighted by injury. He can't do anything about that. People have talked about unloading Dunn and Reid off the wage bill, but how? Who's gonna want them? And would they be prepared for a drop in wages?

That leaves us with the direct approach, as we're starved of a ball-playing midfielder in the middle of the park. Up steps Andrews. Keeps fit, keeps his head down, and runs around a lot waiting for the second ball. He's not ideal, but then he's not crucial to the way we play. Sam clearly feels he wouldn't be able to find much better with the £2.5m (minus deductions) Fulham were offering.

Yes, thats a sensible post!!

[Exiled in Toronto]

I have never said on here my experience says I am correct, for that is very much opinionated, ability is not opinionated, it is a fact that can be viewed.

Really? So Southampton's manager knew that Kevin Davies was a very good target man when he gave him a free to Bolton?

I thought the transfer market functioned largely because of differing opinions as to players' abilities.

For me and many other people involved in football, a cental midfield player bereft of pace, vision and passing ability should not be plying their trade in the premiership against the worlds best!!

Good for you and your football chums; I happen to agree with you, but Allardyce either doesn't or has a different opinion as to Keith's contribution

As for Sam being right, Ok, so the Hull and Wolves managers were right too, they didnt let him play even championship football and at 27 he's moved up from division 2 and has in all fairness done better than expected, but he isnt going to get much better if at all at his age, Nzonzi is still learning and in my opinion is a more complete midfielder than Keith.

Were those managers interviewed for the England job?

Andrews is a limited squad player who is playing becuse those ahead of him are a bunch of crocks AND the manager has chosen not to replace him with any one of the thousands of similar players you perosnally know of. Why keep bereting a squad player for not being as good as a guaranteed starter?

[Kelbo]

Andrews is a limited squad player who is playing becuse those ahead of him are a bunch of crocks AND the manager has chosen not to replace him with any one of the thousands of similar players you perosnally know of. Why keep bereting a squad player for not being as good as a guaranteed starter?

I am not, I am defending my opinions of Jonnolad who's only contribution is alladyce keeps selecting him, he is unable to put up any valid argument whatsoever!!

Indeed, you have quoted above what I have been stating all along, thats all,I agree with that, the point is Jonnolad doesnt!!

Retired