[Archived] Sunderland Preview

[BuckyRover]

Let's look at the whole picture:

Sam's key players for centre midfield are currently Dunn, Reid, and Grella. All of whom have been blighted by injury. He can't do anything about that. People have talked about unloading Dunn and Reid off the wage bill, but how? Who's gonna want them? And would they be prepared for a drop in wages?

That leaves us with the direct approach, as we're starved of a ball-playing midfielder in the middle of the park. Up steps Andrews. Keeps fit, keeps his head down, and runs around a lot waiting for the second ball. He's not ideal, but then he's not crucial to the way we play. Sam clearly feels he wouldn't be able to find much better with the £2.5m (minus deductions) Fulham were offering.

That is exactly right.

So let's accept that he is a valuable squad member and was good value for money and stop berating him all the time. It's boring.

[Ozz]

My brother, an Everton fan, who is not that clued up on football watched MOTD and said we should have won easy, we murdered them.

[imy9]

How the hell has the Sunderland preview turned into the Keith Andrews thread! I think its clear what peoples opinions are, cant people simply agree to disagree?

[den]

My brother, an Everton fan, who is not that clued up on football watched MOTD and said we should have won easy, we murdered them.

Alan Hansen said we could have scored 5 Ozz. - and we could - they got mighty lucky as Steve Bruce conceded afterwards.

[Steve Moss]

Rovers were easily the better squad. Some bad breaks (the ref apparently thinks if someone falls in the vicinity of Roberts he must be responsible), a nervous replacement (Kalinic) and some occassionally poor defending (Samba), resulted in a loss we neither deserved nor needed.

[tonyoz]

I've never put anybody on ignore but you are coming closest to it Jonno.

Jonno, my admiration for your tireless contributions to this board has soared to a new level, heh heh!

[Paul]

Rovers were easily the better squad. Some bad breaks (the ref apparently thinks if someone falls in the vicinity of Roberts he must be responsible), a nervous replacement (Kalinic) and some occassionally poor defending (Samba), resulted in a loss we neither deserved nor needed.

In my experience if your strikers, Kalinic etc fail to score and your defenders make mistakes you deserve to be beaten. Taking advantage of the opposition's errors / weaknesses is a large part of the game. Points aren't handed out for what a team deserves. We weren't unlucky or whatever, we made basic misakes. Luck is when a shot that is going one way hits a defender and gets diverted for a goal, unlucky is the opposite.

[Paul]

That is exactly right.

So let's accept that he is a valuable squad member and was good value for money and stop berating him all the time. It's boring.

Hurrah, a sensible comment about Keith Andrews. I no longer know if he's good or bad, most of the time he's pretty much invisible which usually means a player is doing OK. The manager keeps picking him, the manager probably knows more about football than the collective wisdom on here. The constant criticism and scape-goating of Keith Andrews is unfair and uncalled for. He puts in more effort than some of our so called stars, McCarthy for one. I reckon Andrews will contribute more to the cause than Dunn, Grella or Reid simply by keeping fit.

[tonyoz]

In my experience if your strikers, Kalinic etc fail to score and your defenders make mistakes you deserve to be beaten. Taking advantage of the opposition's errors / weaknesses is a large part of the game. Points aren't handed out for what a team deserves. We weren't unlucky or whatever, we made basic misakes. Luck is when a shot that is going one way hits a defender and gets diverted for a goal, unlucky is the opposite.

In the two matches so far, Adebayor and Jones finished their chances off with aplomb. We need to see some quality from our own strikers soon.

On a related point, here is a scary set of statistics?

These are the percentages of successful midfield passes in the Sunderland game:

player (no. of passes) % success

Pedersen (27) 49

N'Zonzi (33) 52

Andrews (37) 62

Diouf (19) 53

It doesn't look like an abundance of chances are coming from this direction.

[Iceman]

Very early days yet but it's galling to see Ghilas looking so sharp for Hull and Kalinic so inept.

And the amazing thing is that Ghilas passed a medical, so soon after he apparently failed a test at us. I know we probably have a good medical team, but we certainly dropping a few catches in that department at the moment

[FourLaneBlue]

Am I the only one who is sick and tired of reading about Keith Andrews?

There is already a thread of over 100 pages debating him. Does it have to completely dominate the match threads as well?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Tonyoz's stats could be used by Jonnolad as some a weak defence of Keith Andrews as he made the most passes and had the highest pass success rate of any of the midfielders. Jonnolad is right that in that if Sam was not happy if Andrews he has now had near enough two transfer windows to replace him but if he rates highly as a midfielder then why did he spend the back end of last season being our reserve right back?

The debate about Andrews is fine but I'm afraid that is only part of the problem with Rovers at present. Bigger questions that need answering are:-

i. Are there no barn doors at Brockhall so our forwards could practice hitting them because at present it appears three of them could not hit one from a yard!

ii. Our defence has started making sloppy mistakes again.

iii. Teams have time to defend against Rovers because we aren't attacking quick enough. There is no pace in the entire team and no vision in the middle of the park as a result when we attack it is slow so the opponents aren't stretched. They just fall back into formation.

iv. Midfield as a unit is weak. Andrews and an untried 20 year old is nowhere near good enough at Premiership level. We could probably carry either of them with a decent midfielder along side but we have no money to buy one. I know Warnock is being sacrificed for the money but it is alarming that it was thought these two plus the cast of Casualty would stand up to the rigours of Premiership football. With the players available at present I suspect the only way Rovers can compete in this department is to put a third body into centre midfield and sacrifice a forward.

[Iceman]

In my experience if your strikers, Kalinic etc fail to score and your defenders make mistakes you deserve to be beaten. Taking advantage of the opposition's errors / weaknesses is a large part of the game. Points aren't handed out for what a team deserves. We weren't unlucky or whatever, we made basic misakes. Luck is when a shot that is going one way hits a defender and gets diverted for a goal, unlucky is the opposite.

To some extent i disagree with this. Luck, and any kind of luck is part and parcel of football. You make your own luck so to say,and if you watched Defoes goal yesterday then you will understand. The problem has got nothing to do with luck at Rovers. If you create so many chances as we did at City and Sunderland, and you cant score from a few yards out then that is not being unlucky but ###### poor finishing. These guys get paid a huge wage, and they fail to deliver. Kalinic, i can understand hasnt had much game time, but Roberts and Benni Pies should do much better. Its now scratching head time for Allardyce. Does he go for that creative midfielder if Warnock is sold? Or does he go in for somebody like Chamakh to score goals, knowing we are creating chances? Or does he keep Warnock, knowing Nelsen might be out for a long time. Or does he sell Warnock, bring Gohouri in and shift Givet to partner Samba. My guess is that he will sell Warnock, and bring Gohouri in, and either sign another striker or midfielder.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

And the amazing thing is that Ghilas passed a medical, so soon after he apparently failed a test at us. I know we probably have a good medical team, but we certainly dropping a few catches in that department at the moment

Iceman - Time will tell. If he does not miss a game then yes we may have made a 'boo-boo'. He has only played one game for them.

Hull's medical team have not got the best track record as their fans are really appreciating Jimmy Bullard's £5million performances at present

[Iceman]

Iceman - Time will tell. If he does not miss a game then yes we may have made a 'boo-boo'. He has only played one game for them.

Hull's medical team have not got the best track record as their fans are really appreciating Jimmy Bullard's £5million performances at present

Fair enough point mate. I was just pointing out that after APPARENTLY failing a medical at Rovers, he suddenly passed at Hull. As far as im concerned, it was a matter of money. However in saying all that, i still believe Kalinic is a much better player than Ghilas. Forget the Sunderland nightmare, he will find his scoring touch soon.

[CAPT KAYOS]

There is a parallel here that is quite close to home for us imo. Colin Hendry was a decent centre half who like to rampage forward at every opportunity until KMD came and told him to stop charging forward and to concentrate solely on defending and nothing else.... and he turned him into one of the best CH's inn the Premiere league!

Maybe Samba's concentration is being compromised by his wanderlust, and he is being over exposed by quick breaks from opposing teams.

Totally agree Theno, and something I have been posting similar for the last couple of seasons especially with with regard to Pedersen.

We need players that can do what their job entails - I will say it again - defenders - defend / midfielders -midfield/ and strikers - strike ( where it hurts and not go on strike like ours )

It has been mentioned on here re how other teams find it so easy to defend against us due to our laborius or obvious attacking hoof into the box - why we do that I never know as we only normally have x1 player in the box and very rarely attack the ball or win headers.

Falls in line with the other issue I have also highlighted previously , in that other clubs find it easier to score against us ie don't need countless attempts and nearly every time we mess up it results in a goal - compare this to how many attempts for us to even get anything on target never mind in the onion bag even when the other teams ' cocks' up.

I mentioned after the UTD home game last season that we need somebody more combatitive and determined at CB to bring Samba along (Hendrylike in other words) - somebody who puts their body on the line, throws themselves into blocks etc - a leader.

Again, another issue I have pointed out previously- IMO we don't have the backbone that I 100% believe in so is it any wonder we crumble like we do - strong keeper (possibly have ) strong centre back ( not quite) good cm ( lacking desperately) - striker (questionable)

Its early days so no knee jerking here , just slightly worrying the problems we have had for at least x3 seasons are still with us. However, we have to get into a win (every game) mindset rather than this percentage picking of points per game idea.

We have to be more determind and clinical - and for this we need the desire, something that would appear to be lacking instead of all the huffing and puffing.

[philipl]

With a bit of luck and everyone surviving the visit to the Gills OK, Sam's options for the next match will be radically different from what he could pick from at Sunderland.

Any news on Di santo?

[Bobby G]

Sam said few weeks for Di Santo.

[Balwer]

Sam said few weeks for Di Santo.

What about Nelsen? Any recurrence of knee problems is worrying...

[Kelbo]

In the two matches so far, Adebayor and Jones finished their chances off with aplomb. We need to see some quality from our own strikers soon.

On a related point, here is a scary set of statistics?

These are the percentages of successful midfield passes in the Sunderland game:

player (no. of passes) % success

Pedersen (27) 49

N'Zonzi (33) 52

Andrews (37) 62

Diouf (19) 53

It doesn't look like an abundance of chances are coming from this direction.

#

Pass completion whilst important can be very misleading, get a ball, 5 yards back or the side and its completed, we are short of the killer passes which turn a defence, present one on ones etc!!

Having said that, we should be completing at least 75% of our passes at this level if wer are really going to compete!!

[Big Fat Sam]

I'd like to see the breakdown IE pass distance's.

[only2garners]

What an awful day.

Set off late, broke down in Skipton, waited almost 2 hrs for the breakdown from Green Flag before the driver/owner managed to convince the poor fella to take us to the garage for a quick fix. Result was that the fix never happened and we have just got back to Leyland via Preston with our tickets intact, not been able to see the game and to find that we are in the bottom 3.

Truly, a waste of a day

Am thoroughly dejected and am going to have a cold shower, some food and a few lagers.

1864 - if only I'd known. I was waiting in the car park at the Bull at Broughton, just outside Skipton for my son to meet me - he was stuck in a jam between Clitheroe and Gisburn. He eventually got there at 12.50 and we made it to the game 90 seconds late. I had three spare seats and must have virtually driven past you

[alexanders]

Anyone got the highlights?

[Saltysellars]

What about Nelsen? Any recurrence of knee problems is worrying...

Apologies if this has been answered, but who picked up the captain's armband after Nelsen went off?

[alexanders]

Apologies if this has been answered, but who picked up the captain's armband after Nelsen went off?

Andrews.