[Archived] Rovers V West Ham

[Mr. E]

After 2 straight defeats I would have said it was essential to get that first win on the board asap.

I agree that Sam approached the game as if he was happy with a nil nil/a point but if a home game against West Ham isn't deemed to be a winnable fixture I'm really struggling to see where we're going to pick up the points we need.

If we can't beat Wolves next game it's hopeless then.

And even if we do...simply beating relegation-candidates isn't going to provide for much enjoyment this season.

[Tom]

Also it feels a bit depressing not having seen a Rovers goal in the flesh this season yet

[RevidgeBlue]

If we can't beat Wolves next game it's hopeless then.

And even if we do...simply beating relegation-candidates isn't going to provide for much enjoyment this season.

The situation should never be hopeless, I really don't agree with this supposed approach of prioritising fixtures, (and presumably mentally writing off others)

Every game is a potential opportunity to pick up points.

[RIML]

FFS. I'm losing the will to live.

How would you describe Cristiano Ronaldo then?

I would class him as a "winger" not a striker despite the fact he's scored 70 odd goals in 2 seasons because he operates in wide areas of the pitch.

Ditto Hoillett.

For the record I would class Diouf as more of a "winger" or "attacking midfielder" than a striker as well.

Sums it up exactly by saying you would class........ but the official website and every other website class him as a striker.

I would say Ronaldo was a forward/winger like the Real Madrid website states "Position: Forward" he isn't a striker just a forward player, this is different because Hoilett is classed as a striker and not a forward, if he was classed as a forward you have a point but he isn't, he's a striker.

Just found this on WikiAnswers

Q. What is the difference between a forward and a striker?

A. Striker is furthest up the field. Goal poacher. A forward it the deeper auxiliary striker who is create chances with through balls, surging runs towards goal and forage deeper for the ball.

[RIML]

Regardless of what is Hoiletts natural position today he certainly wasn't playing as a striker.

RIMLs argument is the same as me saying Chimbonda played right back today and posting things that say he's a right back

My point started when someone said at the game, why are we still playing with one up front when some fans started singing 'you don't know what you're doing' Kalinic and Hoilett played up front towards the end of the game.

[RevidgeBlue]

Sums it up exactly by saying you would class........ but the official website and every other website class him as a striker.

I would say Ronaldo was a forward/winger like the Real Madrid website states "Position: Forward" he isn't a striker just a forward player, this is different because Hoilett is classed as a striker and not a forward, if he was classed as a forward you have a point but he isn't, he's a striker.

Just found this on WikiAnswers

Q. What is the difference between a forward and a striker?

A. Striker is furthest up the field. Goal poacher. A forward it the deeper auxiliary striker who is create chances with through balls, surging runs towards goal and forage deeper for the ball.

What? So if Wiki said Hoillett was a left back he'd be a left back?

Completely pointless discussion which I'm sure is boring the pants off everyone else but imo the definition you quote above only serves to contradict your argument that Hoilett is a striker.

[brian_gallagher85]

HEALTH WARNING!

"Arguing with RIML is bad for you - you will never win"

(I should know)

THANK YOU

THAT IS ALL

[RIML]

What? So if Wiki said Hoillett was a left back he'd be a left back?

Completely pointless discussion which I'm sure is boring the pants off everyone else but imo the definition you quote above only serves to contradict your argument that Hoilett is a striker.

It's not just Wiki what says he's a striker.

What do you mean "the definition you quote above only serves to contradict your argument that Hoilett is a striker"?

Yes it is getting boring, a bit like how boring it is when everyone says how poor they thought Andrews was.

[Iceman]

We played 2 up front 1st 2 games, and our only goal came from a defender. You can score a goal in less than a minute, and Kalinic and Hoiliett were on for much longer than a minute. I just think midfield still lacks another creative midfielder besides Dunny, but that is still not the big problem. Football is about scoring goals, and we are becoming our own worst enemies in that department. I just think back and what Derbs would have done in those 1st 2 games, coming off the bench with all those chances.

[des]

I do not mind us playing 4-5-1 away from home. however at home is should be 4-4-2, if Sam think we need a five man midfield them by all means lay a 3-5-2.

We needed more fire power up front today and sad to say for most parts of the game it was not there

[RevidgeBlue]

We played 2 up front 1st 2 games, and our only goal came from a defender. You can score a goal in less than a minute, and Kalinic and Hoiliett were on for much longer than a minute. I just think midfield still lacks another creative midfielder besides Dunny, but that is still not the big problem. Football is about scoring goals, and we are becoming our own worst enemies in that department. I just think back and what Derbs would have done in those 1st 2 games, coming off the bench with all those chances.

Kalinic was only introduced with 18 mins to go today which imo was far too late but then again that has been a frequent criticism of various previous managers, particularly Hughes as I recall.

In my view we're not scoring because in many games we create next to nothing in terms of chances and in others we create plenty of "situations" or half chances but rarely any clear cut ones.

If that failing is due to the lack of creativity in midfeld then that's the problem.

[1864roverite]

Yes it is getting boring, a bit like how boring it is when everyone says how poor they thought Andrews was.

Truth ALWAYS hurts

[nowthen]

Sums it up exactly by saying you would class........ but the official website and every other website class him as a striker.

I would say Ronaldo was a forward/winger like the Real Madrid website states "Position: Forward" he isn't a striker just a forward player, this is different because Hoilett is classed as a striker and not a forward, if he was classed as a forward you have a point but he isn't, he's a striker.

Just found this on WikiAnswers

Q. What is the difference between a forward and a striker?

A. Striker is furthest up the field. Goal poacher. A forward it the deeper auxiliary striker who is create chances with through balls, surging runs towards goal and forage deeper for the ball.

Couldn't resist because you are ridiculously cock sure of yourself.

Junior played wide right or left now and again during most of his time at St Pauli.

[Blue blood]

Frustrating sums up todays game for me.

First half and for a fair bit of the second, rovers seemed afraid to shoot. There were numerous occassions when it was crying out for someone to take a shot or for a killer final ball and neither came. The formation we used, had some advantages, allowing Grella and Dunn more freedom to play the roles they like, but it left us horribly short up front. Roberts was woeful, but if you are going to play 4-2-3-1 you need the 3 in particular to have the pace to get in the box and support the lone striker. We didn't have that, often leaving only one or no players threatening in their penalty area.

Whilst West Ham looked quick on the break, and had a few chances, overall rovers seemed to cope well with a team obviously much quicker than them. Whilst West Ham had a couple of fierce shots, none were on target and I can't remember Robbo having to make a single save. At the other end it took a while for us to really threaten, but I think we edged it with several good chances in the second half. Junior in particular really should have given us the win.

The good:

Defensively we were solid. All 4 of the back line played well. Jacobsen had a very comfortable afternoon and looked ok when he got forward, Givet was as calm and composed as ever, and Samba coped well with a difficult Carlton Cole.

Chimbonda looked pretty good at left back. I had my reservations about this, and the obvious disadvantage of having a right footer on the left was evident, when he had to cut inside a number of times rather than reach the byline. However he defended well, including a couple of great crunching tackles and linked up well with Pedersen on the left.

Pedersen looked lively and threatening throughout, and was involved in most of our good moves. He perhaps could do with a bit more confidence to take a shot now and then. His set pieces were shocking though.

Grella AND Dunn both lasted 90 minutes. Both had decent games I thought. Dunn looked very promising creativity wise, although is still a bit slow for my liking and gets caught in posession too often. But he does give us some much needed creativity in the middle.

Grella got better as the game came on. I thought by the end he was breaking up play well, and had a decent array of accurate passes.

The bad:

Roberts up front alone. Didn't have much support but even so - a poor performance. Dithered far too much for my liking.

Andrews - I don't want to start another argument, great effort but no output. A lot of his passes went astray.

This may sound a tad odd/harsh seeing as he had our best two chances, but I wasn't too impressed with Holliet. Thought he didn't have much involvement in the game bar his chances.

The lack of a final ball/will to shoot. At times we were playing some good stuff around their box but no one would shoot. I'm not advocating a shoot on sight policy, but we'll never score if every player keeps laying it off all the time.

Lack of pace in the team. Caused us to break off several promising attacks. A big reason imo why we didn't have the threats in the box. Emerton can't come back soon enough.

Overall am not too sure how to feel other than frustrated. Should I be worried that three decent peformances have only yielded one point? Should I be concerned by our lack of attacking threat, even when we're playing some decent stuff? Or will our promising form provide the results sooner or later? We really should have another 3/4 points. The optimist in me thinks when Kalinic gets up to speed and when Dunn, Grella and Emerton are back we'll be fine, but if we leave it much later to reach this, we could be playing serious catch up.

[Rovermatt]

Another ponderous performance. Just not good enough. The lack of proper investment in midfield is hurting us.

[RIML]

Couldn't resist because you are ridiculously cock sure of yourself.

Junior played wide right or left now and again during most of his time at St Pauli.

And?

The point being people were singing you don't know what you're doing when Sam took off Roberts as these people didn't know Hoilett is a striker and thought he was still playing with one up front.

[Blue blood]

After 2 straight defeats I would have said it was essential to get that first win on the board asap.

I agree that Sam approached the game as if he was happy with a nil nil/a point but if a home game against West Ham isn't deemed to be a winnable fixture I'm really struggling to see where we're going to pick up the points we need.

Agree totally. On reflection especially in the second half West Ham were there for the taking. If we don't see that as a winnable fixture we might as well give up now.

With regards to the booing, there was something deeply dissatisfying about the first half, perhaps more so then some much worse performances, which got me very frustrated - and not in a we're not getting the bounce of the ball type way. It almost seemed as if we couldn't be bothered to shoot/get in the box which is a first for me. (We've often played like we're incapable of doing these things, but not can't be bothered.)

RIML - Holliet played wing, either that or he was running the channels far too much for most of his time on the pitch

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Sums it up exactly by saying you would class........ but the official website and every other website class him as a striker.

I would say Ronaldo was a forward/winger like the Real Madrid website states "Position: Forward" he isn't a striker just a forward player, this is different because Hoilett is classed as a striker and not a forward, if he was classed as a forward you have a point but he isn't, he's a striker.

Just found this on WikiAnswers

Q. What is the difference between a forward and a striker?

A. Striker is furthest up the field. Goal poacher. A forward it the deeper auxiliary striker who is create chances with through balls, surging runs towards goal and forage deeper for the ball.

Let's put it this way- Would you play Hoilett up front on his own ? If your answer is no then he's not a striker. All our other strikers, Benny, Roberts, DeSanto, Kalinic will do at this season

[the swede]

Grella got better as the game came on. I thought by the end he was breaking up play well, and had a decent array of accurate passes.

Totally 32 passes, 31 successful. That's quite decent

[Blue blood]

Totally 32 passes, 31 successful. That's quite decent

Not too many were forward (there were a couple of good ones out to the wing) - although I meant decent in a positive way/light. Not tugay-esque in his passing but very competent.

[RIML]

Let's put it this way- Would you play Hoilett up front on his own ? If your answer is no then he's not a striker. All our other strikers, Benny, Roberts, DeSanto, Kalinic will do at this season

You do have a good point but would Benni play up front on his own? Ok Roberts did today, but it doesn't mean any of them will play up front on their own this season. Di Santo, Kalinic, Roberts maybe even Samba again but that can be justified with their height, Hoilett @ 5 ft 8 well I'm sure you can understand why he probably won't be playing up front on his own.

EDIT: Can you believe someone has edited Wikipedia It says he's a striker and a forward.

Only Lee can edit the official site though

[Stuart]

And?

The point being people were singing you don't know what you're doing when Sam took off Roberts as these people didn't know Hoilett is a striker and thought he was still playing with one up front.

You've been quoting sources to prove your assertion that Hoilett is a striker. However, I think you'll find that all of the sources will be based on the official site.

A word of caution in believing anything on the Internet. It isn't always correct. Even our own club website. Until I emailed the club last year, it showed that Ryan Nelsen had scored a competitive goal months before he actually did. The club then corrected it.

For the record, Hoilett didn't come on as a striker. In fact Dunn was playing further up the pitch than him. Everyone just went a bit gung-ho towards the end. Probably to Sam's disgust.

By way of an example, this site lists him as a midfielder.

[AggyBlue]

The line up today was 4 - 4 - 1 - 1, Dunn was clearly playing between a midfield line of four and Roberts.

The midfield four had obviously been told to stay behind the ball. I can't remember ever seeing such a lack of ambition at getting forward from a Rovers midfield before.

People are saying we defended well, we bl00dy should have done because in effect we defended with eight players.

The West Ham fans were right when they sang 'Boring Boring Blackburn'

[beerwins]

You've been quoting sources to prove your assertion that Hoilett is a striker. However, I think you'll find that all of the sources will be based on the official site.

A word of caution in believing anything on the Internet. It isn't always correct. Even our own club website. Until I emailed the club last year, it showed that Ryan Nelsen had scored a competitive goal months before he actually did. The club then corrected it.

For the record, Hoilett didn't come on as a striker. In fact Dunn was playing further up the pitch than him. Everyone just went a bit gung-ho towards the end. Probably to Sam's disgust.

By way of an example, this site lists him as a midfielder.

Thats not what its says here

shocker

[RIML]

For the record, Hoilett didn't come on as a striker. In fact Dunn was playing further up the pitch than him. Everyone just went a bit gung-ho towards the end. Probably to Sam's disgust.

When he replaced NZonzi he played in a forward position towards the right but when Sam subbed Roberts for Kalinic it was then the fans started their abuse thinking he was keeping one up front, they didn't know Hoilett could play further forward linking up with Kalinic.