[Archived] Rovers V West Ham

[Mike Graham]

Went to the Rugby League Final at Wembley today.

Great game (75,000 crowd and did not see one copper all day !!)

thank god I was not at Ewood today watching that shower of Rovers $hite

[philipl]

Watched the Rovers game big screen adjacent to a screen showing Liverpool getting very lucky against a Bolton side who were playing some really good stuff...

No way can we be said to have played really good stuff and I am sorry but 4-5-1 screamed a 0-0 draw and that plus tedium is what we got.

Sam has said that this was the last game when injuries mean he cannot pick from nearly a full squad- by my reckoning we were only Nelsen, Emerton, Reid, McCarthy and Di Santo- less today but I guess Dunn, Grella, Kalinicand Samba were all walking wounded to an extent and Salgado is not ready either.

I just hope I have seen the last of us playing so unnecessarily cautiously at home against a side as limited as WHam and that I have also seen the last start by Andrews.

Chimbonda had a good debut, Nzonzi was less effective than when I saw him previously and I thought the cameo appearances by Kalinic and Hoilett were very encouraging and point to the future. Dunn was the class act on the Rovers side but he didn't exactly fit in with much of what was going on around him.

[Shabani]

tugay??!

[Scotty]

It was impossible to guess the Rovers team before the match. The amount of injuries / players coming back from injuries / new signings / formations meant that anything was possible. However, I was still a little surprised when I heard the team. I can understand playing 4-2-3-1 at home against a top team, but against West Ham? Seemed a bit over-cautious to me.

Anyway, the game started and very quickly became a dull stalemate. Both teams had 5 in midfield and the ball very quickly got stuck there and only rarely emerged into one of the penalty boxes. West Ham looked the more likely team though due to their better use of the ball and having attacking midfielders who were willing / able to make intelligent runs off their lone striker. Having a lone striker who could hold the ball up as well helped. That said, I can't really remember them having a clear-cut chance - the nearest they came to a goal was a couple of snap-shots that Chimbonda blocked superbly.

As for the Rovers, the less said about the first half the better. Our midfield passing was so laboured, there was little or no tempo to our game, and the gap between our forwards and our midfield was a gaping chasm that no-one seemed capable of filling. At times it seemed we were playing 8-1-1. We had a couple of headers from set-pieces, at least one of which we should have done better with, but we failed to fashion a single chance in open play. The fact that Chimbonda at left-back was probably our biggest attacking threat said it all. Half-time was a blessed relief.

The first 20 minutes or so of the second half were no better. Again our midfield failed to join up with our forwards, again our passing was too laboured and lacked incision, and again we didn't create a thing. Only Dunn looked remotely dangerous - the one player willing to run at West Ham and commit players - but he was always isolated and lacked support.

The introduction of Hoilett for N'Zonzi on around the hour mark changed the game. We switched to a more orthodox 4-4-1-1, with Dunn playing off Roberts and Hoilett playing wide right, and finally we carried a genuine attacking threat. Our extra width meant that our midfielders had more space to pick a pass and, against a visibly tiring West Ham team, we started to get behind their defence for the first time in the match.

An exquisite through ball from the outside of Dunn's right boot found Hoilett streaking through the West Ham defence and one-on-one with Green. His chip over the on-rushing keeper looked like it was perfect until it sailed agonisingly 6 inches or so over the bar. The best bit of football in the match.

The introduction of Kalinic for Roberts helped our cause as well. Kalinic was busy, hustling defenders into mistakes, and he showed good touch and technique. There were the inklings of an understanding with Hoilett too as the young Canadien made intelligent runs off the right wing into the centre. On at least two occasions Hoilett got behind the Hammers defence and he was unlucky not to score.

Sadly though it was all too little too late. We'd only really started to play for the last 20-25 minutes and you have to do more than that, especially at home, if you want to pick up 3 points regularly. We could have scored near the end, we were probably just about the better team overall, but it would have been harsh on West Ham if we'd nicked it. I'd have learnt to cope with it though!

Robinson had nothing to do. Seriously, I don't remember him having to make a save of any note.

Our back four were, for the most part, solid. Givet just looks class. However, I thought Samba continued his poor start to the season. Particularly in the first half he was caught out of position too often and needed Chimbonda and Givet to bail him out on too many occasions. He's a much better defender alongside Nelsen. I was also disappointed in Samba's attacking threat at set-pieces. He must have had 3 or 4 free headers today and the nearest he ever came to a goal was a gently looping header that Green collected easily. He should be an outstanding threat for us if our delivery is right, but all too often he misses the target.

Chimbonda was outstanding in the first half, both defensively and going forward. His final delivery was possibly compromised by him being a right-footer on the left, but he still looked dangerous. It would be interesting to see him play at right-back. Jacobsen was again quietly efficient and I'm starting to like him as a player. He's not spectacular, he's never going to be a consistent 8 or 9 out of 10 player, but he does his job well.

Our midfield were, yet again, our weak link today. Only Grella and Dunn emerged with any credit. The former impressed me in his holding role. He can tackle, he's decent in possession, and he can spot and deliver a long pass. If we can get a consistent run of games from him he could grow to become a valuable player for us.

The same is also true of Dunn. I think he's a fantastic player, easily the best we have, and if we can just keep him fit and on the pitch we'll win more than we lose. As I mentioned earlier, he was the one player willing to run at the opposition and commit players. He was quiet in the first half when our laboured possession meant that he was denied the space he needs, but when the game opened up in the second half he started to pick out superb passes and was behind more or less everything good that we did. He was clearly knackered near the end but was still classy enough to create chances for us. Man of the match for me.

I didn't think N'Zonzi wasn't as good as he was against City. He still broke up play and did a decent job defensively, but he didn't use the ball well enough and didn't seem to have the energy levels required to break up field on the counter-attack. Perhaps he was told not to, but we've got to take some risks at home surely.

Pedersen and Andrews were largely ineffective. They put in a shift defensively, but going forward they offered little. As 2 of the 3 supposedly attacking midfielders in our formation you would expect them to make runs up to and beyond the lone forward, but I don't remember either doing it. In fact they seemed to spend a lot of time just jogging out of defence leaving Dunn and Roberts completely isolated and out-numbered.

I don't think Roberts can play as a lone striker. He can't hold the ball up well enough. His first thought is to always try and turn the defender he's competing with, meaning that he doesn't play with his back to goal but instead is always side-on. This means that he can't link up with any runners from midfield as he simply can't see them. This wouldn't be so bad if he frequently did turn his man, but unfortunately he rarely does. And on the odd occasion that he manages it then his finishing is far from clinical. He's much more effective playing off someone. All this meant that pretty much everytime the ball went to Roberts today he lost it and it quickly came back at us.

Hoilett looked a real threat when he came on. He's got great pace, but I was particularly impressed with the intelligent 5 or 10 yard runs he made across the defence from his wide position to get behind the back 4. Although he came on and played on the right wing, i wonder if he'll end up playing as a second striker. He's sharp and was unlucky not to score today. Looking forward to seeing more of him.

As I am of Kalinic. Although he was only on 15 minutes or so today he showed enough promise to suggest he has a chance of making it. He worked hard, held the ball well, and linked up with Hoilett and Dunn cleverly.

The positives from today were that the team that ended the game looked useful. If you add Emerton for Andrews then I think there's the makings of a decent team there - assuming we can keep them fit. Overall though it was a disappointing game that we only really took control of in the last 20 minutes. Our tactics were overly negative, the changes made could have come sooner, and we have to do more to win games at home. It worries me slightly that Allardyce seems relatively upbeat in his post-match interviews. Yes, a clean sheet is nice, but for large parts of the game today we carried virtually no threat at all and looked clueless in possession.

Our next game at home to Wolves is looking like a big game now.

[JAL]

A very god encouraging debut from Pascal Chimbonda plus a excellent faultless display from my MOM for the last two home games at least Gael Givet, what a defender, a proper defender not your plastic Stevie Warnock types.

Dunny MOM is someone at the club having a laugh or are we that desperate.

[den]

The line up today was 4 - 4 - 1 - 1, Dunn was clearly playing between a midfield line of four and Roberts.

Sam himself said pre-match that we would play 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 - and we did Aggy.

Back four with Nzonzi and Grella sitting in front of the back four. Three midfielders [Dunny furthest forward] then Roberts on his own.

Whatever, - with those players, it didn't work. 6 players there for defensive duties only is far too restricting.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Whatever, - with those players, it didn't work. 6 players there for defensive duties only is far too restricting.

I'd agree with that for most games at home, against a far superior side like a United or an Arsenal i wouldn't be against playing two holding midfielders at home.

Excellent write up by Scotty, agree with pretty much all of it and more or less what i thought of the game.

Anyone else seriously worried about our forward line? Roberts has been dire so far this season. Di Santo is injured and its a lot of pressure on the young lad to become our main striker, same can be said for Kalinic who i feel will come good but will need some time, Hoilett has great potential but again another youngster and Benni either isn't fit or can't get a game.

[Exiled_Rover]

tugay??!

Highlight of the match - I thought he was past it for last few years, but it's rare to see that kind of affection for a player and I'll be honest it brought a tear to my eye.

[AggyBlue]

Back four with Nzonzi and Grella sitting in front of the back four. Three midfielders [Dunny furthest forward] then Roberts on his own.

Would that not make it 4-2-2-1-1 then Den.

Either way wasn't good on the eye and wasn't entertaining in the slightest.

[Exiled_Rover]

Sam himself said pre-match that we would play 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 - and we did Aggy.

Back four with Nzonzi and Grella sitting in front of the back four. Three midfielders [Dunny furthest forward] then Roberts on his own.

Whatever, - with those players, it didn't work. 6 players there for defensive duties only is far too restricting.

Neither Dunn, Pedersen or Andrews are quick enough to make that formation work. They couldn't get up the field to support Roberts. The formation also wasn't helped by the fact Jacobson doesn't really provide an option on the right going forward. Chimbonda had a few nice runs, but he is clearly still finding his way in the team and wasn't totally confident bombing forward. As a result, as you've pointed out, we ended up having 6 guys in our own half for the majority of the game with the other 4 miles apart from each other somewhere further upfield.

[mellison24]

A better formation would be to swap the 2 and 1 around. 4-1-3-2. Or even the simplest of 4-4-2 would have worked better. Still racking my brains why we played so defensively againt Wist 'Aaaammm.

[den]

Neither Dunn, Pedersen or Andrews are quick enough to make that formation work. They couldn't get up the field to support Roberts. The formation also wasn't helped by the fact Jacobson doesn't really provide an option on the right going forward. Chimbonda had a few nice runs, but he is clearly still finding his way in the team and wasn't totally confident bombing forward. As a result, as you've pointed out, we ended up having 6 guys in our own half for the majority of the game with the other 4 miles apart from each other somewhere further upfield.

Yes, you're right ER.

If you are going to play that formation, the other four "free" players are really having to be exceptional attacking players. Ours aren't.

Anyhow, hopefully that will be the last time we see that for a while.

[rover6]

It was impossible to guess the Rovers team before the match. The amount of injuries / players coming back from injuries / new signings / formations meant that anything was possible. However, I was still a little surprised when I heard the team. I can understand playing 4-2-3-1 at home against a top team, but against West Ham? Seemed a bit over-cautious to me.

etc...............................

The positives from today were that the team that ended the game looked useful. If you add Emerton for Andrews then I think there's the makings of a decent team there - assuming we can keep them fit. Overall though it was a disappointing game that we only really took control of in the last 20 minutes. Our tactics were overly negative, the changes made could have come sooner, and we have to do more to win games at home. It worries me slightly that Allardyce seems relatively upbeat in his post-match interviews. Yes, a clean sheet is nice, but for large parts of the game today we carried virtually no threat at all and looked clueless in possession.

Our next game at home to Wolves is looking like a big game now.

Really good analysis. Questions that spring to mind after reading that:

1) Is Allardyce justified in boasting about us "totally outpassing" West Ham today?

2) When are we going to start a game with a real PACY threat on the wing - i.e start with Hoilett - or Doran/Olsson?

3) Have we finally found Dunn's best position?

4) Is Chimbonda a canny signing? (Possibly Yes!)

[Amo]

Lawro admitted on MOTD that we should have been awarded a penalty.

OHWAITHEHATESUSDOESN'THE.

[saxo1man30]

loved sam`s post match swipe at the joker critics within ewood today, inc the use of the classic cloughy `good lad` at the interviewer. i`m pretty sure he meant it towards our more petulant fans, yes, but with a wry tone

i thought we dominated a very good west ham side today(yes inc the midfield area), but just because they frustarted us by piling men behind the ball, denying us a stream of clear cut chances, people look at the one up front. i hardly think that was a factor considering we had 6 shots on target today over 90 mins. our problem is scoring those chances, not creating them(which hasn`t been a problem). i`m sure that will change as the season goes on. those saying today was long ball crap need their eyes seriously testing, yes the long ball was used. but so was an hell of a lot of midfield passing. more in fact than west ham used.

REMAIN PATIENT PEOPLE FFS!!!

[slough_rover]

Givets goal against Sunderland was our only premiership goal in almost 500 minutes of football. Thats your problem if that doesnt get resolved were looking at serious trouble

[Paul]

When he replaced NZonzi he played in a forward position towards the right but when Sam subbed Roberts for Kalinic it was then the fans started their abuse thinking he was keeping one up front, they didn't know Hoilett could play further forward linking up with Kalinic.

Do be quiet. Revidge is correct Hoilett played wide right, well forward but wide right. If a striker played his game that wide we'd all being asking what he was up to.

Anyway Hoilett looks an exciting prospect wherever he ends up playing

[Tom]

Lawro admitted on MOTD that we should have been awarded a penalty.

OHWAITHEHATESUSDOESN'THE.

Really? I havn't seen the replay and if so I feel I owe Mr Dunn an apology, from my position it looked a pathetic dive and I had a few choice words about him

[Amo]

Really? I havn't seen the replay and if so I feel I owe Mr Dunn an apology, from my position it looked a pathetic dive and I had a few choice words about him

Scotty Parker took his left peg out. It was a pen.

[Tom]

Well apologies then, although he still went down with a swan dive a few minutes earlier

After calming down a bit now I'm going to try and look at the positives. Dunny looked as good as he has for years he just has to try and stop trying too much.

chimbonda was superb

Hoilett looks like he will become a real player for us and Kalinic looked better than previously.

Still down about the way we approached the game though

[stuwilky]

Really? I havn't seen the replay and if so I feel I owe Mr Dunn an apology, from my position it looked a pathetic dive and I had a few choice words about him

Id be interested if your opinion changed after seeing the replay - mine didnt.

[saxo1man30]

chimbonda was decent, he wasn`t superb. now you see how poor stephen warnock was in that posistion by thinking chimboda was superb.

[Baz]

Disappointed by today's display - mainly I think by the lack of creativity from midfield. The subs too where baffling.

A midfield of Andrews, Nzonzi, Grella, Pederson with Dunn playing as supplementary striker just didnt work at all. Of them all only Andrew is mobile, how we can play 2 deep sitting midfielders in Grella and Nzonzi and yet give Wham so much time on the ball is baffling.

Grella by some opinions played well, but for me he doesn't add anything to the team, he sits in front of the defence, but doesn't tackle and doesn't play. He seems to be Lee Carsley mk II to me - gets the ball and plays an easy square pass.

N'zonzi I thought was unlucky to be subbed as he was the most effective of the 2.

The game was crying out for us to go 2 upfront, yet we took off Roberts, who admittedly wasnt great, but then again he wasnt given any support or service to be fair.

We are desperate for a ball playing central midfielder and have been for a few seasons, yet bafflingly we seem to ignore this....

Watching the highlights it was a penalty, but to be fair I had to watch it twice before I saw it. We deserved a draw.

Wolves is now a must win game IMO.

[Miker]

Hmmm... interesting.

A lot of negativitity on here. I've read the last 3 pages of posts and can't say I really agree with any of you completely.

One worry I have after that game is concerning the forward line, which I already said after the Sunderland game. Kalinic either isn't good enough or isn't anywhere near ready and if our only other option is Roberts then that's a huge problem. I'm afraid we didn't get a good enough replacement for Santa Cruz and it's going to be a problem for us.

Dunn and Hoilett provide us with some great creativity in the midfield and I was quite happy with their performances. Dunn though was sending a lot of his passes astray and he looks a bit rusty still. Hopefully if he puts together a run of games, he'll cut out the errors.

Our back four was excellent, Chimbonda made a very good debut and was rarely caught out of position (never in fact). The rest of the guys played really well too.

The biggest positive was Grella, I felt justified in my claims a month ago that he IS a quality player and could do a great job for us. He was putting in some excellent tackles and pinpoint passing, there was realistically no faults to his game.

Andrews was excellent in the first half. I didn't notice him as much in the second, but that's because the first half I was watching my widescreen tv really close up. It's amazing how much different it is watching the game on a big screen close enough to analyse the game much better than I otherwise would be sitting 5 metres away.

Sam has my vote of confidence, but he has to address the striker situation because it doesn't matter how good we are tactically, defensively or creatively if the guys up front can't put the ball in the net. Unfortunately at this point in time, we have the weakest set of strikers to choose from in the Premier League. One of the weakest at least.

[Miker]

Disappointed by today's display - mainly I think by the lack of creativity from midfield. The subs too where baffling.

A midfield of Andrews, Nzonzi, Grella, Pederson with Dunn playing as supplementary striker just didnt work at all. Of them all only Andrew is mobile, how we can play 2 deep sitting midfielders in Grella and Nzonzi and yet give Wham so much time on the ball is baffling.

Grella by some opinions played well, but for me he doesn't add anything to the team, he sits in front of the defence, but doesn't tackle and doesn't play. He seems to be Lee Carsley mk II to me - gets the ball and plays an easy square pass.

N'zonzi I thought was unlucky to be subbed as he was the most effective of the 2.

The game was crying out for us to go 2 upfront, yet we took off Roberts, who admittedly wasnt great, but then again he wasnt given any support or service to be fair.

We are desperate for a ball playing central midfielder and have been for a few seasons, yet bafflingly we seem to ignore this....

Wolves is now a must win game IMO.

I suggest you watch again. Grella put in numerous well timed sliding tackles in to win the ball and was constantly involved in breaking up play and passing the ball out to the midfielders higher up the pitch. I'm not sure how much more you can expect from him. N'zonzi didn't do badly, but was NOT the most effective of the 2.

Dunn is our ball playing midfielder. He ran at the defense numerous times and was constantly searching for a through ball or a lob to set up another player, which he sometimes did successfully. A fit Dunn is better than any other midfielder we could afford.

Wolves is a must win now and I wouldn't expect us to lose that game. If we do lose it, then I'll be the first to say I'm wrong, we have a ###### team and Sam has no idea what he's doing.