[Archived] Rovers V West Ham

[thenodrog]

Today was abysmal, no other way of masking it or describing it, we

have one point and one goal from three games this season and we have played 360 minutes football at Ewood since the last day of last season without finding the back of the net.

Isn't that 180?

[John]

Obviously some folk are forgetting we had a load of injuries...... or does that not matter for us?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Average match - by two teams who cancelled each other out.

My tuppence worth :-

1. Sam - please come up with a plan B, rather than constantly playing long balls from free kicks, or long throws when within reach of the penalty area. It can be effective - but is far too predicatable now.

2. Kalinic & Hoillett - hope for the future. Both injected some much needed pace in the team. Probably best not to start matches yet - but brilliant coming off the bench.

3. Dunn - improved as the came went on - but lacks pace to play in the role Sam asked him to - personally would play alongside Grella or Nzonzi in more withdrawn role.

4. Back 4 - thought they all had good games. Givet is absolute class - when you watch him closely you realise what an intelligent defender he is. Chimbonda had a good first game - though his lack of left foot does show at left back.

5. Grella - nice to see him back - thought he had a tidy if not spectacular game.

6. Roberts - reasonable match - especially when so obviously lacking support, or decent service

7. Andrews - everyones favourite player. Did some good things, followed up with really bad things you wouldn't expect in Sunday league. Frustrating is the word - I can see why managers keep faith with him - but doubt he will ever be more than a squad player if we ever get everyone fit.

Overall - the game offered as many good points as bad - players coming back from injury, new players showing great promise. Sam seemingly happy with 1 point at home , players shackled by a long ball style that is too rigid and predictable (not saying all bad - just needs to be more mixed).

The system needs a much more mobile front man than Roberts to pull the defence out of position. Kalinic and Di Santo running wide and/or off the shoulders of defenedrs would prob make it work much better than the ponderous plodding JR.

Absolute rubbish - you can pull players all over the place - makes little difference if your attacking midfield players are too slow to support the lone attacker. Kalinic would have done no better than Roberts yesterday.

[The Prof.]

Well first time in the Darwen End for a while and got a great view.

Yesterday was really awful but we seemed to have a lot of sudden injuries. Why was this?

First half was worse than awful but the cluttered midfield was the problem. Where were Andrews and Nzonzi playing? Why was Nzonzi and not Andrews subbed? Andrews was truly awful.

The amount of space Noble had and it was criminal. Such a lightweight midfield does not need 5/6 people marking it - Get close like we did in the latter part of the second half and they give up! We should have played 3/4 forwards. Allardyce looked exasperated at this but unless he is braver we won't create the clear cut chances we need to score goals and stay up.

Back four could keep us up again. (might have to)

Robbo - Need a brain - Dozen+ kicks into Upson and Collins. Not taught to keep possession in Yorkshire Paul?

Chimbonda - excellent

Samba - scary in the first half but the only attacking threat - need to make sure he concentrates on defending.

Givet - What a find!

Jacobson - looks okay

Then gets worse

Pederson - 5 great minutes and then backwards sideway and STOP him taking and WASTING free kicks will you! He never scores.

Andrews - Oh god, have stuck up for him but yesterday was -5/10 Just got in the way all game. We would have been better off with 10 men, honestly.

Nzonzi - tidy for 20 mins and then downhill all the way - looks like he can play though but needs time to settle.

Grella - Mmmmm Rubbish, truly rubbish first half - all sideways, backwards. Second half got tighter to Noble, overpowered him and started running the game for the last 20 minutes. What was he thinking in the first half?

Dunn - Tried hard, only bit of flair we have so lay off him. Loose some muscle/fat/change mate. Football brain is too good for some of the people around him.

Roberts- Awful, awful, awful

Holliett - good

Kalinic - good

Signs of a bit of pace and mobility here people. Get 'em fit and get em in quick -start them or get 'em on earlier.

What annoyed me most is there was a period where most players (Andrews and Roberts excepted) looked very good near the end and it was just about getting close and putting a foot in early. Easy point for a poor WHU team.

Oh but anyone want Warnock back for Chimbonda?

[Miker]

McCarthy and Diouf didn't play because they both had knocks.

I watched the game right in front of a widescreen tv and had a clear view of each player and how they played. Andrews was NOT ######. He was excellent for much of the game. He gave the ball away at times, but not any more than Dunn (our MOM) did.

Sam has said on the official site that he was forced to play a 4-2-3-1 (not a 4-4-1-1) because of injuries to his other strikers so he was essentially only left with Roberts and Kalinic, who I'm guessing he didn't want to play together. He said they were playing a patient game, passing it through the middle, rather than going direct to the strikers, which is what a lot of people wanted in the first place (for us to play 'good' football, rather than hoofball).

[spencey7]

Why are we even discussing it? Sam is the expert not us

Correct. If Allardyce had his way this very message board wouldn't exist.

Keep sticking up for him if you can.

[thenodrog]

I didn't think N'Zonzi wasn't as good as he was against City. He still broke up play and did a decent job defensively, but he didn't use the ball well enough and didn't seem to have the energy levels required to break up field on the counter-attack. Perhaps he was told not to, but we've got to take some risks at home surely.

Excellent summary scotty, you've certainly put some time nad effort into that.

My only addition is that N'Zonzi and Grella are too silmilar and operate in the same area. N'Zonzi was wedged in by Grella and Keith Andrews who simply refusal to go anywhere near the touchline. In effect we had 3 central midfielders virtually holding hands with half an acre of empty space on the right touchline . It wasn't N'Zonzi's withdrawal that changed the emphasis but rather Hoillet giving us width and pace.

I must say that I really am struggling to see why SA preferred Andrews wide right to any combination of Bert, Hoilett, Chimbonda and (even though I have not seen him yet) Salgado.

[Big Fat Sam]

Oh but anyone want Warnock back for Chimbonda?

Yes.

[Hasta]

Isn't that 180?

If you include the Hibs game it's 270.

Oh but anyone want Warnock back for Chimbonda?

As a left back yes. He played very well yesterday but he is so one-footed that it will cause a problem at some point. He did well though and could well be easily the best right back we have at the club.

[thenodrog]

Grella by some opinions played well, but for me he doesn't add anything to the team, he sits in front of the defence, but doesn't tackle and doesn't play. He seems to be Lee Carsley mk II to me - gets the ball and plays an easy square pass.

Hmmm... interesting.

The biggest positive was Grella, I felt justified in my claims a month ago that he IS a quality player and could do a great job for us. He was putting in some excellent tackles and pinpoint passing, there was realistically no faults to his game.

It's weird. These opposite opinions of Grella seem to be quite common. Some people admire his contribution in as a quiet but effective Makalale type enforcer whereas some just don't see it and appear to be looking at him to play that position like Tugay. Very few seem to occupy the middle ground.

Much different to the Andrews debate where 99% are right whilst a massive minority who likely also had Grabbi and Stead down as world class think he's a premiership player.

[John]

It was left to Dunn, looking far slimmer than usual, who sparkled in an otherwise mediocre encounter.

[RIML]

Do be quiet. Revidge is correct Hoilett played wide right, well forward but wide right. If a striker played his game that wide we'd all being asking what he was up to.

Anyway Hoilett looks an exciting prospect wherever he ends up playing

He happened to be wide right when he lobbed the goalkeeper too And when he stuck the ball so hard but went agonisingly wide, at first I thought it was Roberts but then realised he couldn't strike a ball like that, they didn't show that on MOTD duno why it was a great effort and a well worked move, think Kalinic played the through ball.

EDIT: Proof what I said was right, from the latest match report.

"The introduction of Junior Hoilett on the hour added some pace to proceedings, the young Canadian linking up well down the right with Lars Jacobsen who again put in a strong display down the right."

But when Kalinic came on they linked up, up front.

"Sub' Nikola Kalinic did create some space for fellow sub Hoilett, but his bobbled shot across the bows went narrowly wide."

He's a versatile player who can play wide right and as a striker, you said Revidge is correct when really we're both right in what we're saying. Derbyshire is a striker but sometimes played out wide for us, out of position maybe but a striker can play out wide and it doesn't mean they're a winger or attacking midfielder.

[brfcs5359]

There were some positives but the bottom line West Ham are poor, probably relegation material and we are hardly much better currently. We have the poorest attack in the Premier League and porous defence could land us in a tight relegation battle. Shame because there are a lot of positives elsewhere.

Roberts will take the club down. We have created enough opportunities in 3 games from midfield so no excuses. We have switched off a couple of times conceding 4 goals but all in all look very tight at the back.

Yesterday - The Defence

As everyone has said. Chimobonda looks an improvement on Warnock. Definately right sided, a right back. I cannot see Selgado has been bought for anything but central midfield with Givet at full back. Robinson did nothing and looks an improved more confident player. Samba switched off a couple of times against an excellent but isolated Carlton Cole. As he matures he will be a top class player. Jackobsen is improving. He's nothing special but he is solid and he his simple excellent crossing a welcome addition.

The Midfield

4 across the middle as I saw it with Dunn staying up in support of Roberts. Andrews was good and bad. Worked hard and pressed the ball. Passed it well, passed it poorly. Tackled sometimes, sometimes they just played triangles around him. Provided no end product but did try his very best. NZonzi. Man of the Match for me. Pressed, tackled and importantly passed fast, hard and accurately (clearly schooled to be a top class player unlike some others in the blue & white). Does what top players do, kept the game simple, other Rovers players take note. He also did the hardest thing, he chased the tackle upfield as far as possible. That's what made Sav a good player for Rover. He pressed a high line and by effort alone drove his team forward. NZonzi ran and ran. Hit 3 stupendous long balls, one the defender read early but still pin point. Did everything right even though the ball bounced to West Ham player. Clearly a future French international.

Contrast that with Grella. You can tell a poor player, they play 15 to 20 yards yards deeper than they should to make up for their lack of ability. Grella handcuffed himself to the centre halves and didn't shoulder the weight of taking the game to West Ham. He allowed huge holes in front of him when we were defending and was so far back when we were in possession he left his team mates totally isolated up front. In possession he hit a couple of very good long balls wide, the rest was sideways and backwards. Given Selgado was brought in for that position I think Grella won't be long at the club as NZonzi improves with games.

Pedersons improved form is based on the fact he is keeping the ball and not giving it away. Even in tight spots he twisting turning. He is working back and has been said showing the qualities of a central midfield player. As a wide player he produced very little in the danger last 30 yards. Good performance and he now needs to improve (a lot) in the killer zone.

Up front

Roberts gets teams relegated. 8 goals is his maximum this season. In 3 games we have created chances but he has no anticipation so he is never where he should be to notch 20 a season. He was poor again yesterday highlighted by the one run Dunn had in the first half against isolated central defenders when Jason should have pulled off right taking one ofthem with him. He ran right across Dunns path and Dunn was crowded out despite beating the first 2 of the 3 defenders.

Dunn was fantastic but he was thrown in to the supporting striker role because of his injuries. He jogged most of the match getting a game under his belt and stayed out of most tackles. You can understand Sams thinking. Dunn is THE player that will make Rovers tick.

Subs

Kalinic showed glimses. Pace and touch. He is getting in the danger areas to score and yesterday in 3 or 4 flashes we saw a promising striker. Holliet was blistering pace. Besides that the game pased him by for the few minutes he was on. Clearly Rovers have a pace problem and you can see why these two subs were bought and introduced.

Robinson 0 or 10 (had nothing to do)

Jacobson 6

Samba 6

Givet 7

Chimbonda 7

Andrews 4

Grella 2

NZonzi 7

Pederson 6

Dunn 6 (not match fit thrown in early but class at times)

Roberts 2

West Ham are poor so no higher marks are merited in a game that should have been an easy 3 points.

[thenodrog]

The Midfield

Contrast that with Grella. You can tell a poor player, they play 15 to 20 yards yards deeper than they should to make up for their lack of ability. Grella handcuffed himself to the centre halves and didn't shoulder the weight of taking the game to West Ham. He allowed huge holes in front of him when we were defending and was so far back when we were in possession he left his team mates totally isolated up front. In possession he hit a couple of very good long balls wide, the rest was sideways and backwards. Given Selgado was brought in for that position I think Grella won't be long at the club as NZonzi improves with games.

Load of rubbish. SA said the formation was 4-1-3-1. So where do you think Grella should have played? If he'd charged up field at every opportunity SA would have had a duck fit with him.

Thanks for proving the point I made at the top of the page though.

Oh and btw your choice of MoM was subbed first!

[john.leigh]

Now I really don't mind the long balls & long throws in to the box - what really annoys me is that we never win any of them!!

What's the point of taking them?

If ever we do win a challenge then it's usually because we've fouled somebody.... or occassionally it falls to Alf Roberts who makes a complete arse of any/every chance that comes along - I really can't believe how somebody so bad can have played so much Premiership football - if we persist with him we will go down.

Don't mind the tactic at all, but lets play it right!!

[Hi Mack]

Load of rubbish. SA said the formation was 4-1-3-1. So where do you think Grella should have played? If he'd charged up field at every opportunity SA would have had a duck fit with him.

Thanks for proving the point I made at the top of the page though.

Oh and btw your choice of MoM was subbed first!

Im with you here Gord!! Grella played EXACTLY where he was suppose to play....Infront of the back four.

Grella is a decent player who has had a very stuttered start for Rovers, His job is to break up attacks and play the ball simple.

Dunn looked like his old self and was our main threat, how long will it last though?

Now I really don't mind the long balls & long throws in to the box - what really annoys me is that we never win any of them!!

What's the point of taking them?

If ever we do win a challenge then it's usually because we've fouled somebody.... or occassionally it falls to Alf Roberts who makes a complete arse of any/every chance that comes along - I really can't believe how somebody so bad can have played so much Premiership football - if we persist with him we will go down.

Don't mind the tactic at all, but lets play it right!!

Sometimes you dont have to win them, if its in that area it causes panic and the knock ons can fall to our strikers (agree about Roberts though)

Benni and Kalinic will thrive on this tactic i think!

[philipl]

Sometimes you dont have to win them, if its in that area it causes panic and the knock ons can fall to our strikers (agree about Roberts though)

Benni and Kalinic will thrive on this tactic i think!

But Diaby was at Old Trafford, not Ewood.

[jonv]

Att: 23,421

The commentators did a pretty decent job in creating the illusion that close to 30k fans had turned up!

[brfcs5359]

Load of rubbish. SA said the formation was 4-1-3-1. So where do you think Grella should have played? If he'd charged up field at every opportunity SA would have had a duck fit with him.

Thanks for proving the point I made at the top of the page though.

Oh and btw your choice of MoM was subbed first!

My girlfriend knows more about football than you do... see we can all pass insults though in this case it is probably a fact. Worse still for Rovers, WHU played just Cole up front so we have Givet and Grella marking no-one. I think Givet could have coped without Grella. It is irrelavant anyway. Selgado will play there in a week or two coz Grella is not a good enough.

[thenodrog]

My girlfriend knows more about football than you do... see we can all pass insults though in this case it is probably a fact

Care to point out what you perceive to be an insult?

[Hasta]

My girlfriend knows more about football than you do... see we can all pass insults though in this case it is probably a fact. Worse still for Rovers, WHU played just Cole up front so we have Givet and Grella marking no-one. I think Givet could have coped without Grella. It is irrelavant anyway. Selgado will play there in a week or two coz Grella is not a good enough.

Unfortunately for you, Drog is right. Grella is just very average and that's how he played yesterday. Unfortunately some people have their opinions and try to use every game to justify it. Grella's job was to sit and hold, not get forward and support. That was supposed to be the job of MGP who was ineffective again as a threat to the opposition goal. Apart from the odd game here and there, he's been effective as an attacking force for 2 full seasons now except for his throw. We desperately need some pace and some drive in our attacking options. The sooner Emerton returns to this side the better. He's not great as a right midfielder or as a central midfielder but at least he knows how to try and move forward quickly.

[Hughesy]

The way I saw the game yesterday:

The tactics were clear - Keep it tight, dont concede and then take your chances at the other end. Get at least 1 point from the game as we cant keep losing. It worked and would of worked much better if our midfield was more 'alive'. The biggest problem we seem to have is that we are static.....if our players moved more and made space then we would go much further with this type of formation. I think Sam might of put the shackles on NZonzi abit too much yesterday, as he could have more of an impact if he was allowed to get involved more further up the pitch.

Defence - Solid, Samba & Givet got caught out 1 or 2 times, but the rest covered well. Both Jacobsen & Chimbonda did well and made some cruical challenges and blocks.

Midfield - Grella - It was obvious from the start that Grella was only going to sit infront of the defence and cover for any who had gone up for set pieces etc - he did that, but he was also frustrating as he only passes backwards.

NZonzi - didnt play aswell as he has done in the other games, but I still think he did ok.

Dunn - tried very hard to make things happen, however sometimes he just needs to release a pass earlier, rather than trying to run through defenders. He did try hard, however he is still a 60-70 minute man until he gets fitter.

Pedersen - Wimped out of a few 50/50's, 1 awful corner, his throwings were ok, however he did link up ok with Chimbonda, however he needs to set off running sooner and increase the space that his full back has to attack.

Andrews - Tried hard, however nothing spectacular again - some annoying decisions and not good enough.

Roberts - Tries hard, causes problems - but never looked like scoring and to be honest never will if he is up top alone.

Subs - Hoilett - VERY good, intelligent running, good movement and so unlucky not to be the blackburn end hero with his chipped shot

Kalinic - Again did well when he came on, all hustle and bustle and created 1 or 2 good chances for Hoilett and Dunn. Once he bags one, he will be off.

[cletus]

If i was a teacher (& i`m not) i wolud get a big red pen & scrawl.....

Lacks imagination......MUST DO BETTER!!!!

The 1st 5mins looked promising & the last 10mins (when Hoillett & Kalinic came on) were good......but the rest of the game was rubbish.

My gf summed it up by saying she might bring her Nintendo DS to the next home game.

A point & a clean sheet were the plusses in this game, but the paying public want a bit more effort, skill & gerrintoem!!!!

[cn174]

The tactics were clear - Keep it tight, dont concede and then take your chances at the other end. Get at least 1 point from the game as we cant keep losing. It worked and would of worked much better if our midfield was more 'alive'. The biggest problem we seem to have is that we are static.....if our players moved more and made space then we would go much further with this type of formation.

....

Dunn - tried very hard to make things happen, however sometimes he just needs to release a pass earlier, rather than trying to run through defenders. He did try hard, however he is still a 60-70 minute man until he gets fitter.

I think Dunn would release a pass earlier IF there was anyone to pass to! It happened on a few occasions when Roberts or Dunn had the ball, there wasn't a single other player within 30 yards.

The whole point of playing a 4-5-1 (or whatever it was), was that your 'attacking' midfielders support the lone striker, that just didn't happen much yesterday.

[Roversider]

My girlfriend knows more about football than you do... see we can all pass insults though in this case it is probably a fact. Worse still for Rovers, WHU played just Cole up front so we have Givet and Grella marking no-one. I think Givet could have coped without Grella. It is irrelavant anyway. Selgado will play there in a week or two coz Grella is not a good enough.

It's always good to have a girlfriend who has the sames depths of football knowledge as Capello

Grella was playing to a system, the problem was we had too many defensive minded midfielders and it was Andrews who was working his socks off to get forward. He may not be world-class but he covers more of the pitch than most.

The defensive aspects of the game were good to see, West Ham had little to offer thanks to swamping the midfield. On the attack we spluttered and Roberts was left isolated, I really thought he chased a lot of lost causes down and is still our best choice when it is one up front. To play that you need to have pace from midfield, Emerton will be good in that role if he gets fit, Reid if it is possible to get him fit and of course Pedersen. Dunn needs to be up the pitch already as he isn't the quickest but he looked threatening when he was on the ball in the final third but like Roberts needed more support.

Biggest target was not to get beaten yesterday. If we had points from City or Sunderland that wouldn't have needed to be the case but we didn't, so keep it tight at the back was first imperative.

For some people Andrews will never be good enough whatever he does, closed minds in my opinion as he can still do a valuable job. Grella? Perhaps the same but he needs to play regularly, he is a genuine ball winner though. I also suspect Sam is more likely to rest N'Zonzi when he can and play Salgado alongside Grella as a defensive midfield pairing. Don't forget how old the yong man is so we can't plan on him being consistent and I think Sam would have eased him in slowly given the chance. He will be a major player for us this season though.

Dull but a point that takes us onwards.