[Archived] Rovers V West Ham

[RIML]

Don't argue with a woman, you'll never win.

As the other Brian said

Just to add. The match report on the Daily Mail website,

Dunn said,

‘He's going to be a good player for us. He came on wide right but his best position is probably up front. I'd say he's very similar to Jermain Defoe.’

I guess Sam's intention was to take Roberts off, why the fans thought that was a bad thing I don't know and for Hoilett to go up front with Kalinic. Simples.

[stuwilky]

Bloody hell, give it up.

[RIML]

Also, someone gave MOM to Nzonzi who, IMO, played OKish but disappeared for long spells quite often.

Strange how different people see players and the game differently!!

I noticed that, I said to the guy I sit next to that he would take off NZonzi first, he seemed to drift off like you said he disappeared for long spells. Some people would argue, why take off height but he wasn't really in the game second half.

Bloody hell, give it up.

Why? I'm just getting my point across unfortunately for everyone reading, I've had to repeat myself loads of times now, it's boring to me too but I've had to because no one would believe that Hoilett is a striker, so I've backed up my argument, what more do you want in a debate (other than to shut me up)

[stuwilky]

Youve quoted the internet, and ignored other sites that cite him as midfielder. Fact is, regardless of whatever the intention was. He didnt play as a striker yesterday - whichever definition you want to give.

[RIML]

Youve quoted the internet, and ignored other sites that cite him as midfielder. Fact is, regardless of whatever the intention was. He didnt play as a striker yesterday - whichever definition you want to give.

One website said he was a midfielder and even that website wasn't official. I'm not ignoring that, I just choose not to believe websites like that when the official website states he's a striker.

Just because he drifts out wide doesn't mean he didn't play as a striker, Rooney drifts out wide, so does Messi just to name a few but they're still strikers. By the way I'm not comparing Hoilett to Rooney or Messi just using them as another example.

[mellison24]

One website said he was a midfielder and even that website wasn't official. I'm not ignoring that, I just choose not to believe websites like that when the official website states he's a striker.

Just because he drifts out wide doesn't mean he didn't play as a striker, Rooney drifts out wide, so does Messi just to name a few but they're still strikers. By the way I'm not comparing Hoilett to Rooney or Messi just using them as another example.

I'd compare him to Messi in terms of his apparent style. Not in class though. Like a Defoe on the wing, in a way....

[stuwilky]

One website said he was a midfielder and even that website wasn't official. I'm not ignoring that, I just choose not to believe websites like that when the official website states he's a striker.

Just because he drifts out wide doesn't mean he didn't play as a striker, Rooney drifts out wide, so does Messi just to name a few but they're still strikers. By the way I'm not comparing Hoilett to Rooney or Messi just using them as another example.

In all honesty, I couldnt care less what is on the website. If he was playing as a striker yesterday you would have a point.

The fact is, he wasnt. Regardless of what is written anywhere, and by anyone.

It isnt a discussion, its a statement of fact.

[Amo]

I thought Hoilett was a striker pushed out wide, the same way Derbyshire often was.

[Baz]

One website said he was a midfielder and even that website wasn't official. I'm not ignoring that, I just choose not to believe websites like that when the official website states he's a striker.

Just because he drifts out wide doesn't mean he didn't play as a striker, Rooney drifts out wide, so does Messi just to name a few but they're still strikers. By the way I'm not comparing Hoilett to Rooney or Messi just using them as another example.

Fact: Holliet played right wing.

Fact: He's a striker (who at the moment is occasionally playing right wing - similar to Matty Derbyshire).

End of.

[mellison24]

He played the attacking winger role. Anyone could see that. This argument is like asking if Samba is a striker just because he was played there for 4 games last season!!

[RIML]

I know he played wide right when he came on but when Roberts went off it was then he linked up with Kalinic up front. People are just saying what I've already said before.

[stuwilky]

So stop repeating that he is a striker.

Chris Samba is a defender - he still played centre forward for most of the second half of last season.

[RIML]

So stop repeating that he is a striker.

Chris Samba is a defender - he still played centre forward for most of the second half of last season.

That's irrelevant about Samba. The point being there were two strikers on the pitch from when Hoilett came on, Hoilett and Roberts and then Hoilett and Kalinic. It was when Roberts left the pitch, the small minority of fans shouted abuse because they thought we still only had one striker on, everyone knows he played out wide for the majority of the game but on paper there were two strikers on the field. Sam needed to do both, bring on a pacey right winger because we had no width down that side and a striker, Hoilett was the only option for the right wing, so that's why he played there. Keeping Roberts on with Hoilett wide right and bringing on Kalinic for maybe Andrews instead, we probably wouldn't have got a goal anwyay.

[Baz]

That's irrelevant about Samba. The point being there were two strikers on the pitch from when Hoilett came on, Hoilett and Roberts and then Hoilett and Kalinic. It was when Roberts left the pitch, the small minority of fans shouted abuse because they thought we still only had one striker on, everyone knows he played out wide for the majority of the game but on paper there were two strikers on the field. Sam needed to do both, bring on a pacey right winger because we had no width down that side and a striker, Hoilett was the only option for the right wing, so that's why he played there. Keeping Roberts on with Hoilett wide right and bringing on Kalinic for maybe Andrews instead, we probably wouldn't have got a goal anwyay.

Fans weren't happy because we didnt have 2 centre-forwards playing centre-forward, which most at the game thought was obvious to blind man on a galloping horse what we needed to do.

For heavens sake we had 2 right-backs playing all game by your logic.

I also would suggest that Hoilett didnt at any point play centre-forward anymore than Samba did when he cam forward for set pieces.

[super_arran]

I think the Junior Holiett thread is a few pages back on the MB

[grizfoot]

A very bizarre game it was on Saturday, still can't quite believe what I saw. I hate to be proven right on this occassion but I did state in the Gillingham match thread that playing 4-2-3-1 againt Premiership oppostion isn't going to work for us because we simply don't have the players for it. The likes of Aston Villa and Man United have success using this formation because they've got a number of things our players lack the main one being pace to support the lone striker.

Okay Roberts by no means had a brilliant game but I felt sorry for him at times, he was up against two very good centrebacks in my opinion and whenever he did manage to get hold of the ball there was no support whatsoever. On numerous occassions there was a 20-30 yard gap between Roberts and our supposed attacking three behind the lone striker. In addition I understand the fact that the two holding midfielders aren't suppose to go that far forward but both Grella and N'Zonzi were far to deep for the majority of the game. Same goes for the two wingers in Pedersen and Andrews, I know they have defensive duties also but as soon as we are on the ball they should be bursting a gut to get forward but that didn't seem the case at all.

It was a totally negative attitude and formation to go with it. It appeared as if we were happy to keep a clean sheet and hope we nicked a goal from a set-piece or a rare succesful attack. These sort of things certainly fuel the fire of the anti-Big Sam fans out there. Andrews didn't have his best game by any means, but I don't see the need to single out any individual player, especially since Roberts and N'Zonzi were equally as bad if not worse than Andrews.

On to the positives, Dunn had a good game and got MOTM almost by default since he was the only one looking like creating anything going forward. The two subs in Holliet and Kalinic both looked impressive and suited the formation a little more than Andrews and Roberts. I was suprised we never switched to 4-4-2 at any point, maybe Big Sam was scared of getting over-run in midfield but at 0-0 with 15mins left you'd think the home team would want to be pushing for the goal by chucking more players forward. But no we stuck with the 4-2-3-1 and Holliet was definately playing from the right-wing and not upfront like some people seem to think. Maybe just the shock of one of our supporting three player making a run into the box fooled you all.

You don't need ProZone to see why we didn't win on Saturday. Our midfield simply isn't quick enough to support the lone striker. In future I hope we stick to 4-4-2, especially at home, you could understand playing that way against some of the big clubs but not against West Ham, whom if we have any ambition should be beating at home.

[stuwilky]

That's irrelevant about Samba. The point being there were two strikers on the pitch from when Hoilett came on, Hoilett and Roberts and then Hoilett and Kalinic. It was when Roberts left the pitch, the small minority of fans shouted abuse because they thought we still only had one striker on, everyone knows he played out wide for the majority of the game but on paper there were two strikers on the field. Sam needed to do both, bring on a pacey right winger because we had no width down that side and a striker, Hoilett was the only option for the right wing, so that's why he played there. Keeping Roberts on with Hoilett wide right and bringing on Kalinic for maybe Andrews instead, we probably wouldn't have got a goal anwyay.

You suggest the point about Samba is irrelevant, yet on paper in those matches we played without a striker, as the official website lists Samba as a defender (and he was playing striker) yet use exactly the same point yourself. He did not play as a striker, so regardless of what the internet says his position is, it doesnt mean he is playing in it in any given match.

[sam_rovers]

I think people are underestimating how important it was, from a psychological perspective, not to lose 3 on the trot. We also couldn't have played 2 up top as neither Hoilett nor Kalinic are quite ready yet. I think the tactics were alright overall and even though it was slightly negative a lot of positives can be taken out of the game. Grella and Dunn played 90 minutes and did pretty well, we matched West Hams midfield even though on paper they seem stronger, Hoilett came on and stretched their defense, with a bit more luck we could've walked away with 3 points, and we have a point on the board. Overall, i'm not too disappointed with the result and we've played pretty well over our first 3 games.

[grizfoot]

The funny thing is that's the worst we've played this season and we still managed to come away with a point and it could have easily been all three.

[ABBEY]

WHY OH WHY did noone put parker on his arse?

[super_arran]

WHY OH WHY did noone put parker on his arse?

I agree! when Collins was down faking injury in their box, Parker was givin out smarmy looks to the BBE.

He's one of them players that you'd love on your team; but against you; like you said, you'd prefer him to be knocked about

[ABBEY]

did anyone see parker arguing with the ref and the ref physically pushed him away.

[RIML]

You suggest the point about Samba is irrelevant, yet on paper in those matches we played without a striker, as the official website lists Samba as a defender (and he was playing striker) yet use exactly the same point yourself. He did not play as a striker, so regardless of what the internet says his position is, it doesnt mean he is playing in it in any given match.

What part of "everyone knows he played out wide for the majority of the game" do you not understand. I said he played there but we had two strikers on the pitch. When he took Roberts off I thought, well we have two strikers on the field, Kalinic and Hoilett (who was playing out wide because we had no one else to fill that gap). I put the two together knowing they would link up, up front which they did but the people who didn't think like that or were unhappy that Sam took Roberts off, shouted abuse at the manager's tactics when really he had no other options, out of all the subs used, he brought on the best players we had to the bench. Most people are moaning about him not playing with two up front but we didn't have that option, you need to leave a couple of options on the bench just in case we did go a goal down and Sam kept his options open, our other strikers were either injured or not 100% match fit. Sam's decisions can be justified imo.

[stuwilky]

We absolutely had the option.

What part of playing a striker as a striker do you not understand?

[ABBEY]

What part of "everyone knows he played out wide for the majority of the game" do you not understand. I said he played there but we had two strikers on the pitch. When he took Roberts off I thought, well we have two strikers on the field, Kalinic and Hoilett (who was playing out wide because we had no one else to fill that gap). I put the two together knowing they would link up, up front which they did but the people who didn't think like that or were unhappy that Sam took Roberts off, shouted abuse at the manager's tactics when really he had no other options, out of all the subs used, he brought on the best players we had to the bench. Most people are moaning about him not playing with two up front but we didn't have that option, you need to leave a couple of options on the bench just in case we did go a goal down and Sam kept his options open, our other strikers were either injured or not 100% match fit. Sam's decisions can be justified imo.

YADDY YADDY YAYA YAA