[Archived] Rovers V Aston Vanilla

[Uddersfelt Blue]

One of the top three or four? So is this before or after Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and I suppose now City? Does this effectively make 6 teams we don't bother to try to beat? 18 points we just chuck away?

What does being realistic mean? Last season after six games Ince, arguably the worst manager in Rovers history had accumulated 10 points, if we fail to win today Allardyce will at best have 5 points from six games, 50% less. We were 7th after six games last year, today we could be around 17th / 18th.

So being realistic I'd suggest if we lose this would prove Allardyce is no better at managing our club than Ince was and possibly worse.

The only result which is realistic and acceptable is a win and, just to be a bit greedy, to play some football with two strikers up front? ......... though I'll settle for 90 minutes of boredom if it means we can nick a 1-0

I think the less we worry about the opposition the better.

We need to play out of our skins in every match with the right players, the right formation, the right tactics etc..... SIMPLE

Comparing BFS performance with Ince's is ludicrous when you consider the job he did last season to keep us in this league. This season is a completely different ball game.

[Big Fat Sam]

I can see Sam playing his 451 again today but hopefully with some ins and outs.

----------------------Robbo-------------------

Jacobsen----Samba-------Nelsen----Chimbonda

---------------N'zonzi--------Gamst-------------

Hoillet---------------Dunn--------------Diouf

----------------------Kalinic--------------------

If Givets fit him at left back and Chimbonda at rightback. Kalinic may not be firing but he's better than roberts in the air and with the ball and he will work as he'll be keen to impress (hopefully). We have to get Hoillet in somehow from the start and preferably on his favoured side. None of our central players are really impressing so bring back in N'zonzi so him and Samba can easily combat Carew/Heskey. I flat refuse to drop Pedersen not having a single left footer in the team go's against my belief's. Gamst can't do worse in there than what we have seen in recent games games.

I fully expect not to see the team above, though.

Rovers to ride their luck and nick it in the final minutes, 1 - 0 Rovers.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Sorry - I can't even discuss this match as I can't see anything other than a hiding for Rovers.

[Paul]

Comparing BFS performance with Ince's is ludicrous when you consider the job he did last season to keep us in this league. This season is a completely different ball game.

I can't consider what he did last season, he was employed to keep us up, he did that but we are concerned with the here and now. The stark reality is that even if we win Allardyce will have made a substantially worse start to the season than Ince did. There's little doubt he did well at Bolton but I'm increasingly coming to the view many things coincided at that club at that particular time to allow Sam to be successful. I'm beginning to wonder if he can translate that experience into success at Rovers, to date, this season, there has been very little to suggest he can / will.

I'm not anti-Allardyce just wondering where we are headed with an even worse start this season than last?

[modes98]

What does being realistic mean? Last season after six games Ince, arguably the worst manager in Rovers history had accumulated 10 points, if we fail to win today Allardyce will at best have 5 points from six games, 50% less. We were 7th after six games last year, today we could be around 17th / 18th.

So being realistic I'd suggest if we lose this would prove Allardyce is no better at managing our club than Ince was and possibly worse.

The only result which is realistic and acceptable is a win and, just to be a bit greedy, to play some football with two strikers up front? ......... though I'll settle for 90 minutes of boredom if it means we can nick a 1-0

You've just managed to pick the "highlight" of the Ince era, he started not to badly, then went on a run of awful results and inept performances.

We need that lucky break and it's coming today.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I can't consider what he did last season, he was employed to keep us up, he did that but we are concerned with the here and now. The stark reality is that even if we win Allardyce will have made a substantially worse start to the season than Ince did. There's little doubt he did well at Bolton but I'm increasingly coming to the view many things coincided at that club at that particular time to allow Sam to be successful. I'm beginning to wonder if he can translate that experience into success at Rovers, to date, this season, there has been very little to suggest he can / will.

I'm not anti-Allardyce just wondering where we are headed with an even worse start this season than last?

What you need to remember is the time took for Sam to get Bolton bandwagon moving. He had been there a reasonable amount of time before things started to take off. At Rovers he has not got time to achieve anything as a few defeats mean Rovers are relegation candidates and fans turn. That is the animal that is Premiership football.

[Kelbo]

I can see Sam playing his 451 again today but hopefully with some ins and outs.

----------------------Robbo-------------------

Jacobsen----Samba-------Nelsen----Chimbonda

---------------N'zonzi--------Gamst-------------

Hoillet---------------Dunn--------------Diouf

----------------------Kalinic--------------------

If Givets fit him at left back and Chimbonda at rightback. Kalinic may not be firing but he's better than roberts in the air and with the ball and he will work as he'll be keen to impress (hopefully). We have to get Hoillet in somehow from the start and preferably on his favoured side. None of our central players are really impressing so bring back in N'zonzi so him and Samba can easily combat Carew/Heskey. I flat refuse to drop Pedersen not having a single left footer in the team go's against my belief's. Gamst can't do worse in there than what we have seen in recent games games.

I fully expect not to see the team above, though.

Rovers to ride their luck and nick it in the final minutes, 1 - 0 Rovers.

I would love to see that team, maybe I would use Di Santo instead of Kalinic, with both he and Hoilett, we have some pace to the side!!

[10moorgate]

I can't consider what he did last season, he was employed to keep us up, he did that but we are concerned with the here and now. The stark reality is that even if we win Allardyce will have made a substantially worse start to the season than Ince did. There's little doubt he did well at Bolton but I'm increasingly coming to the view many things coincided at that club at that particular time to allow Sam to be successful. I'm beginning to wonder if he can translate that experience into success at Rovers, to date, this season, there has been very little to suggest he can / will.

I'm not anti-Allardyce just wondering where we are headed with an even worse start this season than last?

So you can't consider what Allardyce did last season but you CAN consider what Ince did last season?

Maybe I'm just too pro-Allardyce but think in the long run he'll keep us punching above our weight.

Even if we did go down i'd keep him. there's plenty of flash in the pan managers but reckon over time he'll be good for us.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

I can't consider what he did last season, he was employed to keep us up, he did that but we are concerned with the here and now. The stark reality is that even if we win Allardyce will have made a substantially worse start to the season than Ince did. There's little doubt he did well at Bolton but I'm increasingly coming to the view many things coincided at that club at that particular time to allow Sam to be successful. I'm beginning to wonder if he can translate that experience into success at Rovers, to date, this season, there has been very little to suggest he can / will.

I'm not anti-Allardyce just wondering where we are headed with an even worse start this season than last?

Admittedly, not a great start results wise but Everton apart, most of the performances have been OK.

We were always going to struggle as this League is getting tougher each season. Added to that we have lost a few key players and the replacements will take time to bed in.

Let's hope for a decent performance today which hopefully will see us not losing to a decent Villa side (but one that is also transforming)

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'm sorry but I can't paint a picture where Rovers win this one. Villa are playing well, they've got Brad in goals and they've got guys who score goals. We'll be better than last week, but if you don't don't score you're in trouble. It's the lack of goals that relegates teams. Why am I saying this every week. Hope I'm wrong this time.

[den]

One of the top three or four? So is this before or after Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and I suppose now City? Does this effectively make 6 teams we don't bother to try to beat? 18 points we just chuck away?

Exactly what I've been trying to say for a while, Paul.

The games against all sides outside the top four + Man City are absolutely vital, particularly at home. If Hughesy is writing this one off as one we can't expect to win either, then we really are looking down the barrel. The more clubs in the league that we can't compete with, and are likely to get zero points from, the more we desperately need to win the other games. We can't simply keep writing off fixtures as no-win games to sides outside the top 5.

[joey_big_nose]

One of the top three or four? So is this before or after Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and I suppose now City? Does this effectively make 6 teams we don't bother to try to beat? 18 points we just chuck away?

That's the problem these days. Used to be only two teams we would know we would struggle to get anything from (Arsenal and Utd)then Chelsea came along. Then Liverpool had enormous investment (making the 'big four') and now Man City, Spurs and Villa have all spent buckets. So now rather than two there are seven teams we are going to find extremely difficult.

The gap between us and the big boys today is massively larger than it was four years ago. Sad. We are reduced to hoping that they balls it up a la Ramos at Spurs. If they spend their money and buid a team competantly (like Redknapp, O'Neil and Hughes are now) we are right up against it.

[Hughesy]

One of the top three or four? So is this before or after Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and I suppose now City? Does this effectively make 6 teams we don't bother to try to beat? 18 points we just chuck away?

What does being realistic mean? Last season after six games Ince, arguably the worst manager in Rovers history had accumulated 10 points, if we fail to win today Allardyce will at best have 5 points from six games, 50% less. We were 7th after six games last year, today we could be around 17th / 18th.

So being realistic I'd suggest if we lose this would prove Allardyce is no better at managing our club than Ince was and possibly worse.

The only result which is realistic and acceptable is a win and, just to be a bit greedy, to play some football with two strikers up front? ......... though I'll settle for 90 minutes of boredom if it means we can nick a 1-0

First of all the two bits highlighted just how deluded you are.

As for my statement of they are 1 of the top 3 or 4 to play at home - yes I stick by that. Arsenal are much easier to grind a draw out of, and possibly even Liverpool. Villa are set up perfectly to play away games - there attack and counter attacking speed is devastating - not many have a weapon like that.

[LeChuck]

We can't simply keep writing off fixtures as no-win games to sides outside the top 5.

And we won't. I have no idea where this silly idea has come from. Bolton were always one of the sides the top four hated playing most. We went to Old Trafford last season and gave it a right good go as well.

There is a difference between targeting where you might win points and actually not trying in the game. If Sam is totting up how many points he thinks we can get this season, then he's obviously not going to mark down many (if any) against the top four. That doesn't mean we won't try to get them, you just can't ever put them into a predicted points total. That's just common sense - something that seems to have gone to pot on this board.

[den]

And we won't. I have no idea where this silly idea has come from.

I know Rovers wont write it off LeC.

I was more referring to Hughesy's post where he seems to be suggesting this is a game that we probably wouldn't expect a win.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Sam has to get his tactics and team selection spot on today otherwise i can see us getting hammered. Villa could have a shocker of course, from all accounts they actually aren't playing that well but are picking up points.

On the debate about what games are viewed as winnable or those that we should be aiming to take points, the way i see it is:

Arsenal- Any points a bonus.

Man United- Any points a bonus.

Chelsea-Any points a bonus.

Liverpool- Any points a bonus.

The rest we should give 100% effort and give our all to get points from.

[den]

Very tough game tomorrow. People need to be realistic following this game - this is probably 1 of the top 3 or 4 home games that are very difficult to win - as Villa away from home are very dangerous with their pacey attack.

It wouldn't have been anywhere near as tough, if we had kept hold of our better players over the last two/three seasons Hughesy.

[cn174]

Sam has to get his tactics and team selection spot on today otherwise i can see us getting hammered. Villa could have a shocker of course, from all accounts they actually aren't playing that well but are picking up points.

On the debate about what games are viewed as winnable or those that we should be aiming to take points, the way i see it is:

Arsenal- Any points a bonus.

Man United- Any points a bonus.

Chelsea-Any points a bonus.

Liverpool- Any points a bonus.

The rest we should give 100% effort and give our all to get points from.

We should give 100% in those games too - you never know what might happen!! Burnley didn't beat Man U by going into the game thinking they weren't going to get anything out of it. These teams aren't completely unbeatable, it has been known we'll beat them.

LeChuck - I would argue that at Liverpool last season we never looked to try and win, didn't have a single shot if I recall and within two minutes you could tell we weren't going to win that game.

As for today, it will be a tough game but Villa are beatable. I think we'll go with:

Robbo

Salgado - Nelsen - Samba - Chimbonda

Diouf - Dunn - NZonzi - Pedersen

Roberts - Di Santo

[den]

We should give 100% in those games too - you never know what might happen!! Burnley didn't beat Man U by going into the game thinking they weren't going to get anything out of it. These teams aren't completely unbeatable, it has been known we'll beat them.

LeChuck - I would argue that at Liverpool last season we never looked to try and win, didn't have a single shot if I recall and within two minutes you could tell we weren't going to win that game.

As for today, it will be a tough game but Villa are beatable. I think we'll go with:

Robbo

Salgado - Nelsen - Samba - Chimbonda

Diouf - Dunn - NZonzi - Pedersen

Roberts - Di Santo

Agreed - 100% in every game we play cn. That's the least the fans should expect.

[broadsword]

Given what we've got coming up in October, we really do need at least a draw out of this.

It's a pivotal game, if we lose we're headed on a right downer, if we could get something out of it it would be a great morale-booster.

We can't be having any of this negative attitude where we're beaten before we step onto the pitch.

I'm willing to bet that Sam plays 4-5-1 again.

[ABBEY]

got a bad feeling ...0-3

[yellowsubmarine]

4-4-2 please, Sam. It's a HOME game.

Praying for a good team sheet.

[ABBEY]

sub theres more chance of spit having his skin bleached and becoming one of us white boys.

[LeChuck]

4-4-2 please, Sam. It's a HOME game.

Everton played a 4-5-1 against us...

Far too much is made of systems, it's how you approach the match that counts. I'll be very happy if we go 4-5-1 and attack the game like we did with Wolves.

I expect we'll play more of a 4-4-1-1, with McCarthy playing behind either Roberts or Kalinic.

[G Somerset Rover]

Everton played a 4-5-1 against us...

Far too much is made of systems, it's how you approach the match that counts. I'll be very happy if we go 4-5-1 and attack the game like we did with Wolves.

I expect we'll play more of a 4-4-1-1, with McCarthy playing behind either Roberts or Kalinic.

If 4-4-1-1 is used then surely Dunn will play behind the front man? He's not gonna drop our best performer for the last few games from his preferred role IMO.