[Archived] Ordinary Dave

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Go on Bazza, do tell us how many people Blair employed.

Wow you realy are the king of spin.Go Alistair Campbell MRKII! So now you have to actually employ people to be considered a rich toff?

Several of the millionaires within the Labour party should do quite well under your new classification.

[thenodrog]

Do you want that on your headstone Gordon ?

Along with your reference to "St Margaret" thank you for finally coming out of your Tory closet.

I doff my cap to a Tory-voting BMW driver with 4 loos. Truly a man of substance.

It's odds on that you will never see my headstone Jim. BUT about bloody time that you came around to that way of thinking......... now I suppose that I'd better go shopping for a BMW.

btw Hows your view over the rolling countryside of the true blue Ribble Valley this morning Jim?... Or are you still in denial? I suspect you will ignore this also as is your usual way but you call me a Tory yet I have voted for different candidates from different parties since I turned 18. Can you say the same are you still voting the way your Dad told you?

[Flopsy]

Wow you realy are the king of spin.Go Alistair Campbell MRKII! So now you have to actually employ people to be considered a rich toff?

Personnel - a body of persons employed in an organization or place of work.

Personal - of, pertaining to, or coming as from a particular person; individual; private

ergo Philip asked a pertinant question, even if he knew what you really meant.

It's odds on that you will never see my headstone Jim. BUT about bloody time that you came around to that way of thinking......... now I suppose that I'd better go shopping for a BMW.

btw Hows your view over the rolling countryside of the true blue Ribble Valley this morning Jim?... Or are you still in denial? I suspect you will ignore this also as is your usual way but you call me a Tory yet I have voted for different candidates from different parties since I turned 18. Can you say the same are you still voting the way your Dad told you?

Labour hadnt been invented when Jim's Dad was about.

[OscarRaven]

How do you define the poor? I feel poor but am I? I don't know!

Broadband account, mobile phone, beer in the fridge, sky tv, car?

If you are without one of the above essentials you are poor, 2 or more your in crisis and should contact your local social inequity officer (who is on 50K a year of course).

Although consider that half the world that lives on less than £1.58 a day (80% of people in the world less than £6.30) and an estimated 25,000 children a day die through poverty.

It's thier oil, minerals and labour that make up our cr@ppy lives. It shows up our no effort gimme, gimme, gimme 'poor' as the scum they are and our BMW M5 / Audi R8 driving rich as the sickening over indulgent pr!cks they are.

And if you have any morals... makes those of us in between feel a little bit guilty for allowing it to continue.

[philipl]

Wow you realy are the king of spin.Go Alistair Campbell MRKII! So now you have to actually employ people to be considered a rich toff?

Several of the millionaires within the Labour party should do quite well under your new classification.

Flopsy has set you straight on Personnel/personal. Go and get a dictionary to look up pragmatic and conviction. There is a difference.

[thenodrog]

How do you define the poor? I feel poor but am I? I don't know!

1. Absolute Poverty = starving people in 3rd world countries with sparrow thin limbs, swollen bellies and haunted eyes, living in shanty towns and mud huts with a bowl of maize or cassava gruel a day to live on if they are lucky. We don't see that in this country.

We see

2. Relative poverty = people in this country with similarly swollen bellies but accompanied by big fat arses in ill fitting cheap clothing living in slums that other people pay for. Typical signs of relative poverty are bad haircuts, obligatory chinese tattoos, microwave meal cartons and cans of strong supermarket lager (strong white cider for the ladies) satellite dishes, ever present fags and yellow fingers withy dirty nails. Most people in relative poverty are prolific breeders as this is the best way to provide much needed income to feed drug habits.

As far as I can see both are on the increase.

Does that help you at all El Tombro?

[broadsword]

Don't go tarring everyone with the same brush, thenodrog.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who'd dearly love the opportunity to improve their life. They can't all be dole bludgers. In fact, if you'd seen that Dole Busters program, you'd realise they're not.

Having said that, there's a sizeable underbelly of work-dodging benefits-claimers in this country that we could well do without. God alone knows how much money these people drain from the system that could be spent on more deserving causes.

[Flopsy]

1 Most people in relative poverty are prolific breeders as this is the best way to provide much needed income to feed drug habits.

Or as a cheap alternative for turkey at christmas

[OscarRaven]

Don't go tarring everyone with the same brush, thenodrog.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who'd dearly love the opportunity to improve their life. They can't all be dole bludgers.

Free and equal education is all that is needed and that is where the burdern on the tax payer should stop. I would advocate unemployment insurance instead of a welfare state.

However bringing it back on topic neither labour or Dave's crew are interested in arresting the inequality, increasing barriers and the semi-comercialisation of education.

[BuckyRover]

The Conservatives haven't had a privately educated leader since the 1960s. Cameron is the first since then.

Tony Blair was educated privately.

[1864roverite]

I firmly believe that after the recent conferences The Conservatives have shown the votersd that they are best placed to put this country back on its feet..

Labour have gone backwards.

Liberals, although improving, will never ever in my lifetime win over the voting public.

The rest are just also rans.

[jim mk2]

I firmly believe that after the recent conferences The Conservatives have shown the votersd that they are best placed to put this country back on its feet..

Labour have gone backwards.

Liberals, although improving, will never ever in my lifetime win over the voting public.

The rest are just also rans.

Thank you for the insight, Nick Robinson.

[Sandiway Blue]

Don't go tarring everyone with the same brush, thenodrog.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who'd dearly love the opportunity to improve their life. They can't all be dole bludgers. In fact, if you'd seen that Dole Busters program, you'd realise they're not.

Having said that, there's a sizeable underbelly of work-dodging benefits-claimers in this country that we could well do without. God alone knows how much money these people drain from the system that could be spent on more deserving causes.

i have mentioned this on similar threads before but where i live,there are 8 households within a 10 SECOND walk where none of the occupants have been in work for the 15 years i have lived there, even though there is nothing wrong with ANY of them.Irrelevant of which party wins the next election stopping things like this has to be high on the priority list to help put the country`s finances in order.

[thenodrog]

Can "call me Dave" objectively and fairly govern with such a high personal fortune?

Thats an odd question Stu. Personally I don't trust Cameron very much at all (I'd much rather old Ken Clarke held the Tory reins) but how can personal wealth be relevent?

[Billy Castell]

Tories, Labour..............they're all the same nowadays. They're only variations on the Thatcherite free market theme. I think UKIP may get a seat or two, and Plaid Cymru/SNP may make gains as voters leave the main parties.

I voted Lib Dem in the two elections I could, as they were vaguely saying the sort of things I agree with. However, since they can't organise an orgy in a brothel, I may vote for a minority party if they appear on the card. Now, if I'm still registered in Bridlington I can probably vote for the SDP.......

[Blueandwhitemike]

Some interesting thoughts, some entrenched positions, some well argued points. It is such a difficult area, and to argue about it well you need to know so much.

Personally, having watched/listened to quite a bit of the lab/con conferences I feel that I can't trust any of them. I often hear people say good things about Vince Cable, but politics and politicians are a mess. I just feel they have all been corrupted by their jobs and the people around them.

Back in the day I wanted to be a politician, but I didn't get in, now I just feel so disillusioned by all of it. I used to be pro labour but they have let us down badly, mostly by acting like conservatives. So it feels like we desperately need a change in government, but what are the choices? Only one, the conservatives, Dave's speech didn't impress me at all, I don't trust him and I see nothing in what he says to make me think otherwise, Osbourne I dislike, I think they will say anything they can get away with that they think will get them elected.

Most of labours biggest mistakes I think the conservatives would have done the same, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, does anyone seriously think the conservatives would have done different? I don't think so. The economy? Would the conservatives have regulated more and prevented what happened? Again, I don't think so.

I see no reason for optimism whoever wins the next election, but I think that all the people thinking if the conservatives will do better than labour are going to be disappointed.

p.s. I thought Paul made quite a few good points

[thenodrog]

I used to be pro labour but they have let us down badly, mostly by acting like conservatives.

Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.

I suppose that if that is true mike then it seems that the country must prefer conservatism.

[FourLaneBlue]

I suppose that if that is true mike then it seems that the country must prefer conservatism.

The country prefers political parties without too much politics about them. Both parties have drifted to the centre and cannot be seperated on most issues. Part of the reason for this is that national political parties, and particularly in Europe, no longer have the same power to influence that they used to have.

[philipl]

Out of power, the make-up of the Tory MPs has if anything become much more ideologically right wing and that will be dramatically re-enforced by the new intake at the next election. That is what is concerning me so much about the prospect of a new Tory Government.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Out of power, the make-up of the Tory MPs has if anything become much more ideologically right wing and that will be dramatically re-enforced by the new intake at the next election. That is what is concerning me so much about the prospect of a new Tory Government.

Could you please corroborate such a sweeping statement?

[Blueandwhitemike]

Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.

I suppose that if that is true mike then it seems that the country must prefer conservatism.

I don't think that is true, IMO, rather that a lot of the people are unhappy with Labour, and if, as seems likely, the conservatives win the next election it will be because of dissatisfaction with labour rather than the conservatives actually persuading people to vote for them. I think the conservatives know this and will say as little as they can get away with in terms of real policies.

[philipl]

Could you please corroborate such a sweeping statement?

Oh come on, I thought you professed to have a keen understanding of politics!

Here is the Times (yes Murdoch's rag) noting that the new Tory in take will be far right.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Oh come on, I thought you professed to have a keen understanding of politics!

Here is the Times (yes Murdoch's rag) noting that the new Tory in take will be far right.

Hmmm… so your hypothesis that the Cameron will take the "party to the right" is based on a somewhat scattergun article by one journalist ?

If anything- Labour are further to the Right than the conservatives- especially on the economy, foreign policy and the tax policy of non-doms.

[philipl]

Hmmm… so your hypothesis that the Cameron will take the party to the right is based on a somewhat scattergun article by one journalist.

No there have been plenty of articles and analysis saying the same thing.

Normal post-electoral thrashing effect; the only people left in a humiliated party are the extreme ideologues.

That gave the Tories the likes of Howard and Duncan-Smith as leader a complete set of wingnut candidates and Ordinary Dave getting himself elected by posturing on Europe.

Look at how totally nuts the Republican rump is in the US just now. The same effect.

Now Dave has joined up with gay bashers, anti-semites and waffen SS supporters (Latvia) in the European Parliament under the leadership of a Pole who won't apologise/fully acknowledge the massacre of Jews in 1941. Just about the only good news for Labour, if you can call it that, is the opportunity it has given the sons of a Polish refugee (the Milliband brothers) who lost 80 members of their family in Jewish massacres to launch an all out attack to which the Tories have no conceivable answer having so deliberately left the PEP to set-up the rag tag mob they are in with now.

[Flopsy]

shame that latvia storey turned out to be made up by the Russians and lept on with glee by the left wing press over here